[Opinion Piece] Canucks will look to add a Top 4 defenseman by Trade this off season.

[Scurr]

LOL

are you on crack?

JJ has been one of the worst dmen in the league. Tanev is far the superior Dman.

It's satire. Benning signed Sbisa to a ridiculous contract so he must covet all bad dmen.

 

[Vtownfan]

I just don't agree with this assessment. It's the same thing I heard in Toronto when in fact the fans were calling the fan 590 day after day, year after year begging for a tear down for the better part of a decade. The team was tone deaf and scared.

Here's what can happen:
Fickle corporate buyers and wealthy fans will be replaced by the hard core hockey fan at the stadium. Seasons tickets will be downgraded for game packs. Kids get introduced to the game....and not just the over privileged types. It can't be dismissed as a minor marketing problem but I totally disagree that you will see an empty building. And besides we are there already. They could not sell playoff tickets in a 100 point season because the fans are way, way smarter than given credit for.

Some more Bartkowski Prust and Dorsett acquisitions will do a hell of a lot more damage than a handful of 19 and 20 year olds can do good. They need to stop trying to paper over the cracks and instead proudly display the patina. A rebuild is what you make of it. My 5 year old and 3 year old are going to get introduced to the NHL in a big way the next three years.....assuming they let it happen.

I sure as hell won't pay to see Lucic et al. I'm too smart for that.

I agree with you, but that means Aquilini accepts that to fill the barn, ticket prices need to drop significantly. The reason they couldn't sell playoff tickets is because they wanted the same $$$ as when the Canucks were Pres Trophy winning cup favorites. Just don't see that happening.

It's amazing that in Prior to the Torts year, the Canucks went from having a waiting list for Season tickets to begging me on facebook to buy them.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I just don't agree with this assessment. It's the same thing I heard in Toronto when in fact the fans were calling the fan 590 day after day, year after year begging for a tear down for the better part of a decade. The team was tone deaf and scared.

Here's what can happen:
Fickle corporate buyers and wealthy fans will be replaced by the hard core hockey fan at the stadium. Seasons tickets will be downgraded for game packs. Kids get introduced to the game....and not just the over privileged types. It can't be dismissed as a minor marketing problem but I totally disagree that you will see an empty building. And besides we are there already. They could not sell playoff tickets in a 100 point season because the fans are way, way smarter than given credit for.

Some more Bartkowski Prust and Dorsett acquisitions will do a hell of a lot more damage than a handful of 19 and 20 year olds can do good. They need to stop trying to paper over the cracks and instead proudly display the patina. A rebuild is what you make of it. My 5 year old and 3 year old are going to get introduced to the NHL in a big way the next three years.....assuming they let it happen.

I sure as hell won't pay to see Lucic et al. I'm too smart for that.

You're to smart to pay to watch one of the best power forwards in the game in Lucic? that's smart alright.

 

[Proto]

I should have specified the average fan at a Canuck game. I don't think that demographic represents the average Canuck fan.



Would you go to a restaurant and pay five star prices from a promising young chef serving two star meals that the owner assured you would be much better in a few years?

1.) This assumes that the restaurant couldn't just lower their prices or provide a better experience in other metrics (ambience, etc.) to help compensate.

2.) I'd do what you suggested 100 times before I'd pay 5 star prices for 1 star food prepared by a dumbass chef with no inclination to learn to make better food who kept telling me I just didn't understand why his slop was good.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Better be some damn good meat an potatoes for 5 star prices.

 

[Scurr]

1.) This assumes that the restaurant couldn't just lower their prices or provide a better experience in other metrics (ambience, etc.) to help compensate.

The Cactus Club model. If the girls are pretty enough nobody will notice how bad the food is. Maybe we'll get cheerleaders at the game soon?

2.) I'd do what you suggested 100 times before I'd pay 5 star prices for 1 star food prepared by a dumbass chef with no inclination to learn to make better food who kept telling me I just didn't understand why his slop was good.

Yeah, I'm not defending Benning and I have no problem with a rebuild myself but I'm not spending my money on going to games either way. The only tickets I bought during the Gillis era were to watch Sundin play once and game 7 of the Stanley cup final. I hate the crowd at Canuck games -though I usually go once a season for free just to be reminded why I hate it.

 

[fancouver]

I think management could sell the fanbase on a relatively short rebuild of two or three years.
The problem right now is that this is not what they're trying to sell. They're trying to sell a re-tool on the fly and Vancouver fans are smart enough to not buy that.
Sports is entertainment and you need to market your product properly.
Market the hell out of the young players and market the team as a rebuilding team
A top three pick in the upcoming draft would do wonders for getting a player who could really be sold to the fans. Add that prospect to Horvat, Virtanen and Hutton who are all highly marketable players and you could have a great ad campaign ready to go for the summer.

The problem with marketing your young players is, there really isn't anything to market. I consider fans who post on an online forum, serious fans. They see the potential in the Boesers, Virtanens, McCanns and Horvats. But to the casual fan in Vancouver who didn't follow the NCAA. Who's Boeser? Who's Demko? Are these guys on the same level as McDavid? Hall? Are they the next Ovechkin? Patrick Kane? I can assure you all the 2011 bandwagoners have no idea who our top prospect is, let alone name 5 prospects in Utica.

The problem is this:

Canucks don't have any household names. Horvat is going to be a stud, but he isn't flashy. Yes, he gets the job done, but he doesn't get the job done in Kane-style. Does it matter? No. But for marketing, it matters a lot. The casual fan will look at the stats and realize 18 points for McCann isn't impressive. Then they look at Patrick Kane rookie numbers and realize, that's one heck of a player.

Until the Canucks can get a flashy, Bure/Naslund type player, the fan interest will be down. People will still watch a losing team as long as there's an exciting player. We weren't a powerhouse in 1994, but Bure made the ticket of admission worth it.

 

[Proto]

The Cactus Club model. If the girls are pretty enough nobody will notice how bad the food is. Maybe we'll get cheerleaders at the game soon?



Yeah, I'm not defending Benning and I have no problem with a rebuild myself but I'm not spending my money on going to games either way. The only tickets I bought during the Gillis era were to watch Sundin play once and game 7 of the Stanley cup final. I hate the crowd at Canuck games.

Right, but I think the overall point I was making in this thread is that there's a difference between a team flubbing its way to being terrible and a team that actually plans to rebuild and states that goal/the objectives in a clear way. Everyone always says the Canucks fans won't support a rebuild, but the team hasn't had a rebuild that wasn't an embarrassing disaster since 1988.

The late 90's rebuild was heralded in by a complete garbage fire.

Canucks fans even got excited for a rebuild of sorts in 1996 that was led by future HOFers like Harold Druken.

 

[IntangiBo]

Vancouver doesn't have 20k or even 18k dedicated fan base with enough disposal income to go to home games in any professional sport. If you ever listen to sports talk radio you will hear many self-claimed season ticket holders threatening or thinking of cancelling their season tickets if the team doesn't do this or that

I'm sure this board alone has 10,000 STH if you read long enough. I have a good friend who refers to himself as a STH because he shares an 11 game? pack with a friend.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

The problem with marketing your young players is, there really isn't anything to market. I consider fans who post on an online forum, serious fans. They see the potential in the Boesers, Virtanens, McCanns and Horvats. But to the casual fan in Vancouver who didn't follow the NCAA. Who's Boeser? Who's Demko? Are these guys on the same level as McDavid? Hall? Are they the next Ovechkin? Patrick Kane? I can assure you all the 2011 bandwagoners have no idea who our top prospect is, let alone name 5 prospects in Utica.

The problem is this:

Canucks don't have any household names. Horvat is going to be a stud, but he isn't flashy. Yes, he gets the job done, but he doesn't get the job done in Kane-style. Does it matter? No. But for marketing, it matters a lot. The casual fan will look at the stats and realize 18 points for McCann isn't impressive. Then they look at Patrick Kane rookie numbers and realize, that's one heck of a player.

Until the Canucks can get a flashy, Bure/Naslund type player, the fan interest will be down. People will still watch a losing team as long as there's an exciting player. We weren't a powerhouse in 1994, but Bure made the ticket of admission worth it.

I disagree. I think that most young people know Virtanen, Horvat and Hutton and even the Big Russian. These guys have lots of charisma. Now take the pick this year and you could build a great marketing campaign.

 

[Scurr]

Right, but I think the overall point I was making in this thread is that there's a difference between a team flubbing its way to being terrible and a team that actually plans to rebuild and states that goal/the objectives in a clear way. Everyone always says the Canucks fans won't support a rebuild, but the team hasn't had a rebuild that wasn't an embarrassing disaster since 1988.

The late 90's rebuild was heralded in by a complete garbage fire.

Canucks fans even got excited for a rebuild of sorts in 1996 that was led by future HOFers like Harold Druken.

I don't think the average person at a Canuck game would know the difference between a good rebuild and a poor retool. They don't even know when to cheer.

 

[IntangiBo]

It's a broken analogy-- It's more like would you continue to root for your country in the Olympics even if they sucked. Nobody watches the Canucks for the pupose of supporting the business, even when they're doing well.

If you're living in a completely black and white world I guess, but you could dismiss ANY analogy based on such simplistic values.

We are talking about support as in spending your time/money. It's not only buying a ticket, I've seen people this year who ARE good fans not bother going to games because of the other costs involved. If it's not worth the price of admission, it doesn't make one a casual fan for not going. I've completely lost the point now, f*** it.

Go local pro sports franchise!

 

[F A N]

I'm sure this board alone has 10,000 STH if you read long enough. I have a good friend who refers to himself as a STH because he shares an 11 game? pack with a friend.

I am confused. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I don't think the average person at a Canuck game would know the difference between a good rebuild and a poor retool. They don't even know when to cheer at the game.

1 hat on the ice for a future hall of Famers hat trick says it all.

People think the actual fans go to more than a handful of games at most per year? That's pretty sad judging by

1. how quiet the arena is
And
2. How lousy fan participation is

We must have some quiet die hard fans that really want to hold on to their prized hats!

Maybe in Rogers Arena we should start a new tradition: suit jackets and ties on the ice after a hat trick!

 

[Scurr]

1 hat on the ice for a future hall of Famers hat trick says it all.

People think the actual fans go to more than a handful of games at most per year? That's pretty sad judging by

1. how quiet the arena is
And
2. How lousy fan participation is

We must have some quiet die hard fans that really want to hold on to their prized hats!

They don't get on the refs, they don't cheer for hits, they don't cheer when the team ices the puck on the PK. They have no idea what they're watching. It's ****ing disgraceful.

 

[fancouver]

They don't get on the refs, they don't cheer for hits, they don't cheer when the team ices the puck on the PK. They have no idea what they're watching. It's ****ing disgraceful.

That was embarrassing. I actually tried to forget about that. 1 hat on the ice. I feel like the momemtum instantly went to the opposition after that

 

[Proto]

I'm trying to think of a polite way to put this, but... let's assume all of this consternation over the fan base is true. How little respect do you have for yourself as a fan to take the following rationalization and not only accept it but defend management on its basis: "all the fans at the games are idiots who have no idea what's happening and ownership is beholden to wringing every bit of blood from that stone with no responsibility for long-term planning."

It's basically indefensible. It's either wrong or it's so deeply cynical that I don't know why anyone would even hold out an ounce of hope for that organization. It feels like anyone that believes that is actually probably more negative about the team than those of us who deeply dislike this management group

 

[MS]

It's satire. Benning signed Sbisa to a ridiculous contract so he must covet all bad dmen.

So far, there is no evidence to the contrary.

In 2 years on the job, he's targeted 4 defenders via pro scouting and all four have been outright horrible.

And yeah, anyone who thinks Luca Sbisa is a good NHL defender would absolutely *LOVE* Jack Johnson.

I'm trying to think of a polite way to put this, but... let's assume all of this consternation over the fan base is true. How little respect do you have for yourself as a fan to take the following rationalization and not only accept it but defend management on its basis: "all the fans at the games are idiots who have no idea what's happening and ownership is beholden to wringing every bit of blood from that stone with no responsibility for long-term planning."

It's basically indefensible. It's either wrong or it's so deeply cynical that I don't know why anyone would even hold out an ounce of hope for that organization. It feels like anyone that believes that is actually probably more negative about the team than those of us who deeply dislike this management group

Yeah, it's a pretty hilarious argument.

'Our fans are so stupid that management has NO CHOICE but to badly manage the team to cater to their stupidity so they keep coming to games.' Really?

If that's where we're at, this franchise is screwed. Forever. We all might as well just give up on things right now.

I also love the bizarrely twisted logic behind 'Fans here haven't supported the poor product that came with trying to compete with a poor talent base, so they wouldn't support a proper rebuild! We should continue trying to compete with a poor talent base!'

 

[Scurr]

I'm trying to think of a polite way to put this, but... let's assume all of this consternation over the fan base is true. How little respect do you have for yourself as a fan to take the following rationalization and not only accept it but defend management on its basis: "all the fans at the games are idiots who have no idea what's happening and ownership is beholden to wringing every bit of blood from that stone with no responsibility for long-term planning."

It's basically indefensible. It's either wrong or it's so deeply cynical that I don't know why anyone would even hold out an ounce of hope for that organization. It feels like anyone that believes that is actually probably more negative about the team than those of us who deeply dislike this management group

Who defended management on its basis? I'm defending the direction chosen by the owner, not the execution of it by management.

 

[mrmyheadhurts]

Yet another thread that has completely derailed into a management and 'true fan' debate. Don't really see the point in leaving this open to be honest, whatever the main topic was it was abandoned long ago.

Feel free to carry on the discussion in one of the more appropriate management threads.

closed