News Article: Oilers & the World Cup: Draisaitl, Sekera (Europe) Korpikoski (Finland) McDavid (NA)

[BoldNewLettuce]

I like the Olympics....and the IIHF tourneys.....but I'm still not sure I care about this.

 

[Frank the Tank]

I like the Olympics....and the IIHF tourneys.....but I'm still not sure I care about this.

It's the NHL response to providing an alternative to the Olympics (they do have some legitimate issues that the IIHF/IOC continues to ignore); however, it is more like the NHL's version of the IIHF World Hockey Championships. In both the WHC and World Cup tournaments the rosters are limited from being best-on-best and half the hockey world does not care about the event. The WHC are catered towards the European hockey schedule, rules, and fans, whereas the World Cup is catered towards the NA hockey schedule, rules, and fans.

 

[Young Lions*]

They have very similar point totals this year.

So that's one year Marchand has approached Hall's PPG. Which doesn't really help your point. He's also played on a team that has been juuuust slightly better than the execrable Oilers.

I don't doubt Hall will make the roster. I do doubt he will be any sort of a focal point on that team. He will likely end up as an extra forward sheltered heavily.

There are too many Canadian players who play the game "the right way" that they're not going to have a defensive liability out there for any considerable amount of time.

Hall is a defensive liability? I honestly have to ask: what team do you watch because it surely can't be the Oilers.

 

[Frank the Tank]

So that's one year Marchand has approached Hall's PPG. Which doesn't really help your point. He's also played on a team that has been juuuust slightly better than the execrable Oilers.



Hall is a defensive liability? I honestly have to ask: what team do you watch because it surely can't be the Oilers.

To be clear, I think Hall is better LW than Marchand. Nonetheless, Marchand has a career year going on, and, perhaps more importantly, is an elite PK player. The case for selecting him is the best it has ever been. I think Hockey Canada decided to wait to gather more information on both Hall and Marchand.

 

[duul]

So that's one year Marchand has approached Hall's PPG. Which doesn't really help your point. He's also played on a team that has been juuuust slightly better than the execrable Oilers.



Hall is a defensive liability? I honestly have to ask: what team do you watch because it surely can't be the Oilers.

It does, because production this year is the most important considering it's this year the tournament is being held. He's linemates with a staple of this team, Bergeron. I already said Team Canada stresses chemistry and is often bringing pairs of players from the same teams to try and keep chemistry.

A 4th line of Marchand-Toews-Bergeron will be perfect. I don't see another player who would slot into that line any better. I also think Benn, Tavares, and O'Reilly are all better fits on a team that doesn't need any more scoring.

Hall is a complete liability. He turns over pucks constantly. He makes awful decisions. It's no secret he has low hockey IQ. He has speed to burn and flies down the wing. He is awful on the powerplay. His decision making is often piss poor. He is all tools and no toolbox.

I'll trust what Hockey Canada decides. There are way better, safer options for the left wing though.

 

[Young Lions*]

Hall is a complete liability. He turns over pucks constantly. He makes awful decisions. It's no secret he has low hockey IQ. He has speed to burn and flies down the wing. He is awful on the powerplay. His decision making is often piss poor. He is all tools and no toolbox.

It beggars belief that such a player could still manage to be an elite point producer on a god-awful team. And yet! Results matter. The rest is just noise. But I can see from your assessment of PK Subban that noise is a big thing for you.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

It's the NHL response to providing an alternative to the Olympics (they do have some legitimate issues that the IIHF/IOC continues to ignore); however, it is more like the NHL's version of the IIHF World Hockey Championships. In both the WHC and World Cup tournaments the rosters are limited from being best-on-best and half the hockey world does not care about the event. The WHC are catered towards the European hockey schedule, rules, and fans, whereas the World Cup is catered towards the NA hockey schedule, rules, and fans.

so is this about posturing against the iihf and ioc for tv money?

 

[Frank the Tank]

so is this about posturing against the iihf and ioc for tv money?

I think it's a long-play by the NHL towards forcing a more of an equal partnership with the IOC or cutting them out completely if they fail to negotiate. The NHL's argument is that they assume all the risk in loaning their superstars for the Olympics for two weeks in the middle of the season in exchange for nothing in return. The IOC's current policies allow for no financial partnership and no TV footage to be shared. More recently, the IOC's deep-seated corruption resulted in them having all the preferred locations for the 2022 Winter Olympics drop out, leaving only two potential host cities (both Beijing and Almaty were relatively poor choices). The NHL does not want to have the location of future Olympics be at the mercy of what corrupt regime can promise the most money to the IOC. By building a viable World Cup, the NHL may be able to leverage the IIHF/IOC into actually trying to create an equitable Olympic partnership.

All that being said, I would argue that creating Team Europe and North American was a bold first step that could back-fire by reducing the legitimacy of the tournament as a international competition. The NHL needs to learn from this event and perhaps try to appease European fans for the 2020 event by letting them host and including more European national teams.

 

[Musashi]

Hall is a complete liability. He turns over pucks constantly. He makes awful decisions. It's no secret he has low hockey IQ. He has speed to burn and flies down the wing. He is awful on the powerplay. His decision making is often piss poor. He is all tools and no toolbox.

All of this is just a huge exaggeration to try and make the few question marks around Hall a bigger deal then needs to be stated. You make it sound like he's a fringe player who needs to work on his game if he wants to stay in the league.

Don't downplay the fact that our team hurts his chances big time and that he can go on large stretches where he looks like one of the most dangerous players in the league, and in a good way. This type of crap just helps turn any actual discussion or debate into a s*** show.

 

[Suxnet]

Hall is a complete liability. He turns over pucks constantly. He makes awful decisions. It's no secret he has low hockey IQ. He has speed to burn and flies down the wing. He is awful on the powerplay. His decision making is often piss poor. He is all tools and no toolbox.

This **** again eh?

Even if Hall makes Team Canada, I'll be rooting for Team Whippersnappers. It would be awesome if they manage to upset the big boys.

 

[duul]

All of this is just a huge exaggeration to try and make the few question marks around Hall a bigger deal then needs to be stated. You make it sound like he's a fringe player who needs to work on his game if he wants to stay in the league.

Don't downplay the fact that our team hurts his chances big time and that he can go on large stretches where he looks like one of the most dangerous players in the league, and in a good way. This type of crap just helps turn any actual discussion or debate into a s*** show.

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying. Hall is an outstanding offensive talent. At times you are right, he is dynamic and looks like one of the best LW's in the NHL. Unfortunately (for him), Team Canada has a habit of straying away from players like him in favor of well rounded, defensively responsible players who can provide a similar amount of offence.

Hall is a great offensive player. Hall is not a great defensive player. Hockey Canada, and even NHL teams find success through two-way play. They have perfected their model and it has won us enough gold medals that I trust them completely. These tournaments are not about risking anything to try and score goals. The goals come from solid defensive effort and playing the right way. Hall takes shortcuts. He makes high risk plays. He has a temper. Who else on that roster screams "****" almost once a game skating back to the bench?

You have to ask yourself why does Team Canada put a player like Hall on their team, when there are players who are just as skilled offensively or at least close to it, but are reliable. Dependable in their own zones. It makes no sense to put him on the roster.

Hell, they took Chris Kunitz over him. They took Marty St.Louis. They took Duchene.

I'm betting they will take Marchand and O'Reilly before him too. Why wouldn't they?

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Cool, Dreger. The same guy who said he hears Hall's a problem in the room which was shut down by McLellan immediately. Or how the leafs wouldn't trade Reimer straight up for Yakupov. How about his defending of Eakins once the man got fired? I could give a rats ass about Dreger.

Dreger is definitely more in the know than you or I. He speaks to scouts, execs, coaches etc and probably has a good feel of things. Just because McLellan is blowing smoke up Hall' butt doesn't mean it's actually what he's thinking of Hall. It could very well be the Oilers are trying to raise the value of Hall as much as possible before trading him this summer. Though I feel this may be difficult because I bet his return would be far less than what many on this board think is right for him and Chia may be forced to keep him. I honestly think Chia is very open to trading Hall.

And as much as Eakins was in over his head here, I would still take his word and opinion on Hall over regular fans and media types. Like I said there are many scouts, coaches execs that have that same slightly negative feel on Hall and these are hockey pros that know their hockey.

 

[Young Lions*]

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying. Hall is an outstanding offensive talent. At times you are right, he is dynamic and looks like one of the best LW's in the NHL. Unfortunately (for him), Team Canada has a habit of straying away from players like him in favor of well rounded, defensively responsible players who can provide a similar amount of offence.

Hall is a great offensive player. Hall is not a great defensive player. Hockey Canada, and even NHL teams find success through two-way play. They have perfected their model and it has won us enough gold medals that I trust them completely. These tournaments are not about risking anything to try and score goals. The goals come from solid defensive effort and playing the right way. Hall takes shortcuts. He makes high risk plays. He has a temper. Who else on that roster screams "****" almost once a game skating back to the bench?

You have to ask yourself why does Team Canada put a player like Hall on their team, when there are players who are just as skilled offensively or at least close to it, but are reliable. Dependable in their own zones. It makes no sense to put him on the roster.

This is comical. It's thinking like this that got Rob Zaumner a spot on Olympic team many moons ago. It certainly doesn't reflect team Canada's current modus operandi that won gold decisively in Sochi. That team didn't bother too much with their own zone because the other team so seldom had the puck. Possession matters.

Taylor Hall is very very good at driving possession on a garbage team. The idea that he'd be a liability on a team where he'll up against third and fourth lines and backed by a D-corps unlike anything he's had a chance to play with in his career is simply absurd.

But here's the real kicker for me: you are arguing hard that they have no reason to put Hall on the roster, that he'd be a terrible fit...but then concede he'll make the roster. Like: what?

 

[Spawn]

Dreger is definitely more in the know than you or I. He speaks to scouts, execs, coaches etc and probably has a good feel of things. Just because McLellan is blowing smoke up Hall' butt doesn't mean it's actually what he's thinking of Hall. It could very well be the Oilers are trying to raise the value of Hall as much as possible before trading him this summer. Though I feel this may be difficult because I bet his return would be far less than what many on this board think is right for him and Chia may be forced to keep him. I honestly think Chia is very open to trading Hall.

And as much as Eakins was in over his head here, I would still take his word and opinion on Hall over regular fans and media types. Like I said there are many scouts, coaches execs that have that same slightly negative feel on Hall and these are hockey pros that know their hockey.

Has Eakins ever said a negative thing about Hall?

The thing that stands out most about Eakin's comments about Hall over the years, is the day he was fired him coming out and saying that the reports from Dreger were complete ******** in regards to Hall being difficult to coach.

You're all over the map and insanely selective about who you're going to use as a source at any given moment. Like... you'll trust Eakins over fans/media types. But wont trust McLellan over media types? Agenda much...

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Has Eakins ever said a negative thing about Hall?

The thing that stands out most about Eakin's comments about Hall over the years, is the day he was fired him coming out and saying that the reports from Dreger were complete ******** in regards to Hall being difficult to coach.

You're all over the map and insanely selective about who you're going to use as a source at any given moment. Like... you'll trust Eakins over fans/media types. But wont trust McLellan over media types? Agenda much...

It's not uncommon for people to only use things that work toward their arguement and nothing else.

Eakins actually had good comments about Hall for the most part if i remember right as well.

 

[Spawn]

I don't look at stats as a be all end all of a player's overall abilities. I watch him play and decide for myself what I see. A plethora of second assists, given every opportunity to play offensive hockey with the best players on the team and a long leash to cheat for offence also helped boost those numbers in my opinion. You can see maybe now that Mclellan has clamped down on not letting players cheat that he is struggling to produce consistently.
Fact is he has questionable puck skills and decision making (especially on the pp and late in games with the goalie pulled-- when things are on the line). His shot while hard is anything but a snipe. Below average shot. Yes he can be a very dangerous player when on his game but if he's your best player, well you're team will be hurtin'.

Fun fact about Taylor Hall. He's 12th in the league in primary assists. And his 25 primary assists are 10 more than anyone else on the team.

I wonder if anyone has ever tried using that argument against Hall before...

 

[duul]

This is comical. It's thinking like this that got Rob Zaumner a spot on Olympic team many moons ago. It certainly doesn't reflect team Canada's current modus operandi that won gold decisively in Sochi. That team didn't bother too much with their own zone because the other team so seldom had the puck. Possession matters.

Taylor Hall is very very good at driving possession on a garbage team. The idea that he'd be a liability on a team where he'll up against third and fourth lines and backed by a D-corps unlike anything he's had a chance to play with in his career is simply absurd.

But here's the real kicker for me: you are arguing hard that they have no reason to put Hall on the roster, that he'd be a terrible fit...but then concede he'll make the roster. Like: what?

You're still not making any sort of argument for putting Hall on the team over players like Duchene, O'Reilly, Marchand, Carter, Perry, etc. They all do what Hall does (put up points) but they also bring versatility, defensive responsibility. These players hardly ever have brainfarts that Hall is accustomed to.

The brass don't care if you "drive possession". They care about players making smart, safe plays every single time. They want players who backcheck twice as hard as they forecheck. They want players who will win a draw when their centre gets kicked out. They want players who PK. They want players who cycle and who will wear down the opponent.

You're listing positives for Hall like these other players aren't as good as he is at "driving possession."

When your roster has Crosby, Benn, Seguin, Toews, Tavares, Stamkos, Getzlaf, Bergeron, the list goes on...there's literally nothing Taylor Hall does that these players AND MORE can't do themselves. The difference being Hall lacks in areas these players excel at.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Has Eakins ever said a negative thing about Hall?

The thing that stands out most about Eakin's comments about Hall over the years, is the day he was fired him coming out and saying that the reports from Dreger were complete ******** in regards to Hall being difficult to coach.

You're all over the map and insanely selective about who you're going to use as a source at any given moment. Like... you'll trust Eakins over fans/media types. But wont trust McLellan over media types? Agenda much...

Pot calling the kettle black. Hall Lovers do the exact same thing. Ignore or dismiss Dregers comments or Hrudey's comment as "o their idiots that know nothing and it's all bull". Ignoring the two quotes from two Western NHL execs/scouts/coach I had that took a jab at Hall's overall game etc.

 

[Young Lions*]

You're still not making any sort of argument for putting Hall on the team over players like Duchene, O'Reilly, Marchand, Carter, Perry, etc. They all do what Hall does (put up points) but they also bring versatility, defensive responsibility. These players hardly ever have brainfarts that Hall is accustomed to.

The brass don't care if you "drive possession". They care about players making smart, safe plays every single time. They want players who backcheck twice as hard as they forecheck. They want players who will win a draw when their centre gets kicked out. They want players who PK. They want players who cycle and who will wear down the opponent.

You're listing positives for Hall like these other players aren't as good as he is at "driving possession."

When your roster has Crosby, Benn, Seguin, Toews, Tavares, Stamkos, Getzlaf, Bergeron, the list goes on...there's literally nothing Taylor Hall does that these players AND MORE can't do themselves. The difference being Hall lacks in areas these players excel at.

And yet you still think he'll get picked. You're arguing with yourself.

 

[duul]

And yet you still think he'll get picked. You're arguing with yourself.

I am of the opinion that it could go either way. I'd love to see Hall play there. There could be a spot for him playing with Crosby given their success at the world championship last year.

Given the history of Hockey Canada, I would not be surprised if he is not named due to his defensive deficiencies and someone like Marchand, O'Reilly, Duchene etc is put there in his place.

I really don't know which way they'll go, but I feel the team would be better without Hall, if it even matters. They'll mop up this tournament no matter who goes.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think Hall should make it. With D who can move the puck up to him, he's going to be very effective. He also was part of the World Championship winning team a year or two again, which I believe McLellan coached (not that this is relevant).

I think he should make it, but I really don't care too much either way. If he doesn't make it, he gets a longer break and is hopefully more fresh to start the season. Not a big deal to me either way.

What I do hate is the stupid under 23 NA team, or whatever the hell it is. I want to see McDavid on TEAM CANADA, not some freaking token, gimmick team. That's where I have my biggest issue by far with this dumb tourny.

 

[Spawn]

Pot calling the kettle black. Hall Lovers do the exact same thing. Ignore or dismiss Dregers comments or Hrudey's comment as "o their idiots that know nothing and it's all bull". Ignoring the two quotes from two Western NHL execs/scouts/coach I had that took a jab at Hall's overall game etc.

I'm more than willing to listen to fair criticism of a player. But blatantly making things up, or selectively cherry picking quotes from months ago is not fair criticism.

PS It's Dallas Eakin's who called Dreger's comments ********. And you're the one who said you trust him over media guys. So yeah.

Or you go and post a twitter picture of Kelly Hrudey saying Hall turns the puck over a lot. A comment coming from the Flames colour commentator on a night where Hall scored 1G 2A and was a +2 on the evening with only one give away. Yeah, that's not biased reporting at all.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I'm more than willing to listen to fair criticism of a player. But blatantly making things up, or selectively cherry picking quotes from months ago is not fair criticism.

PS It's Dallas Eakin's who called Dreger's comments ********. And you're the one who said you trust him over media guys. So yeah.

Or you go and post a twitter picture of Kelly Hrudey saying Hall turns the puck over a lot. A comment coming from the Flames colour commentator on a night where Hall scored 1G 2A and was a +2 on the evening with only one give away. Yeah, that's not biased reporting at all.

Hrudey is a flames homer. In games against us we would score a goal and go on about how good Gaudreau is.

 

[frag2]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/who-should-make-up-the-rest-of-canadas-world-cup-roster/

 

[Spawn]

Anyways, on the topic of whether or not Hall should make the team or not. Here's a pretty strong argument in his case.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/who-should-make-up-the-rest-of-canadas-world-cup-roster/

The first thing that jumps out on this chart is that Taylor Hall should be a lock. Not only is he above average everywhere, but we know from previous tournaments that Sidney Crosby likes to play with a wrecking ball on one wing, which is a big reason why his Penguins linemate Chris Kunitz was taken to Sochi. Hall plays that wrecking ball style, but he also brings the second-best ability to drive possession with the puck of any forward in the league, and a scoring touch that Crosby has rarely ever played with. A Hall–Crosby–Bergeron line might be the best one Canada could assemble.

He's probably going to be in tough to make the team. Canada loves having a tonne of centers. But there's no doubt that he's going to very much in the mix.

Lol me and frag with the same post.