Proposal: Offseason Trade

[AKL]

Jordan Greenway's rank among Wild forwards this season at 5 on 5
CF% 4th
FF% 3rd
SF% 6th
GF% 4th
XGF% 2nd
SCF% 1st
HDCF% 3rd
Dzone starts 2nd most
Ozone start% 4th lowest

Goals 8th
Assists 3rd
Points 5th
Takeaways 1st
Hits 2nd


This talk that Greenway is anything but a very good young two-way player is beyond embarrassing.

Did you notice the pattern how most commonly the other skaters at the top of those categories were Rask, Galchenyuk, Foligno and Hartman?

 

[2Pair]

Did you notice the pattern how most commonly the other skaters at the top of those categories were Rask, Galchenyuk, Foligno and Hartman?

Those guys were all top 5 in points? top 3 in assists? You might want to look again. Let me know if you need anything explained.

 

[AKL]

Those guys were all top 5 in points? top 3 in assists? You might want to look again. Let me know if you need anything explained.

Way to be intentionally obtuse. I'll go back and bold the stats you and I both know I was referring to.

But if we're going to talk about those stats, he's a worse 5v5 goal scorer than your boy Parise and a worse 5v5 playmaker than your boy Eriksson Ek. Thoughts? And since I know you'll try to look at total points, he's a worse 5v5 point producer than just about everyone.

 

[2Pair]

Way to be intentionally obtuse. I'll go back and bold the stats you and I both know I was referring to.

But if we're going to talk about those stats, he's a worse 5v5 goal scorer than your boy Parise and a worse 5v5 playmaker than your boy Eriksson Ek. Thoughts?

It's almost like he did all that while playing a shutdown role. But congrats you were able to find 1 individual statistic where Parise and/or Ek were better. What an acomplishment for you.

Most guys that understand the game would probably try to see the big picture, but maybe that's just me?

 

[AKL]

It's almost like he did all that while playing a shutdown role. But congrats you were able to find 1 individual statistic where Parise and/or Ek were better. What an acomplishment for you.

Most guys that understand the game would probably try to see the big picture, but maybe that's just me?

Yeah, he was pretty much stapled to Eriksson Ek's hip in that role, and Eriksson Ek did better. But Eriksson Ek is trash though???

 

[AKL]

So you're cherry picking the advanced stats that have him as one of the best forwards on the team along with Rask, Galchenyuk, Hartman and Foligno.

But when those don't work we're going to look at raw goal and assist totals, where he finished behind Parise and Eriksson Ek respectively (who are both trash).

We're choosing to completely ignore points per 60, which show him as one of the least productive forwards on the team.

But if we look at all of these holistically, he's a good young forward?

I'm getting whiplash trying to keep up with your angles here.

 

[2Pair]

Yeah, he was pretty much stapled to Eriksson Ek's hip in that role, and Eriksson Ek did better. But Eriksson Ek is trash though???

Whatever you have to say to try and have a point.

Never said Eriksson Ek was trash this season. Have given him credit multiple times for having a great season and continue to say that I want him as the 3rd line center. But, yes I guess I'm an Erikkson Ek hater because I don't believe that he has the skillset to play on the PP or in the top 6. Or, that I really would like to go into next season with a better duo than Staal and Eriksson Ek in the top 6.

It's funny that I'm just a homer when I say that Greenway is a very good player that could probably play some in your top 6, but would much rather have him on the 3rd line. Yet, when I say the same exact thing about Ek, it's just because I'm a hater that never liked the kid. Meanwhile you think Ek is a top 6 guy while thinking that Greenway is a "pylon"?

Yeah, I'm the biased one.

 

[2Pair]

So you're cherry picking the advanced stats that have him as one of the best forwards on the team along with Rask, Galchenyuk, Hartman and Foligno.

But when those don't work we're going to look at raw goal and assist totals, where he finished behind Parise and Eriksson Ek respectively (who are both trash).

We're choosing to completely ignore points per 60, which show him as one of the least productive forwards on the team.

But if we look at all of these holistically, he's a good young forward?

I'm getting whiplash trying to keep up with your angles here.

I can't really help you if you don't understand basic statistics. But you can keep trying to put words in my mouth if you think it will help your argument. I didn't use any /60 stats, but again, congrats on "cherry picking" one that helps your argument.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I can't really help you if you don't understand basic statistics. But you can keep trying to put words in my mouth if you think it will help your argument. I didn't use any /60 stats, but again, congrats on "cherry picking" one that helps your argument.

thats the point he was making..

 

[2Pair]

thats the point he was making..

And when the Dr. brought up the /60 stats, I showed them. Surely you guys understand that using /60 offensive numbers for a player/line that plays shutdown minutes is a terrible use of statistics? right? That's what the zone start stats were for.

The sad part is that I still haven't claimed that Greenway is anything more than a good player. The numbers clearly show that at the absolute worst, he's on par with Kunin and Eriksson Ek, yet I'm still the biased one for saying so.

It's actually 10th in goals with Kunin in 4th and Ek in 11th
3rd in Assists with Ek in 2nd and Kunin in 9th
9th in points with Ek in 6th and Kunin in 8th

Yeah, his line sure carried him

 

[AKL]

I can't really help you if you don't understand basic statistics. But you can keep trying to put words in my mouth if you think it will help your argument. I didn't use any /60 stats, but again, congrats on "cherry picking" one that helps your argument.

Not cherry picking any stats, only applying context to yours.

I've also never claimed Eriksson Ek is anything more than a good 3C with the potential for more, as he's shown at virtually every level he's played up to this point.
I also take exception to the idea that Greenway is a skilled player, but I don't disagree he's a third liner.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

And when the Dr. brought up the /60 stats, I showed them. Surely you guys understand that using /60 offensive numbers for a player/line that plays shutdown minutes is a terrible use of statistics? right? That's what the zone start stats were for.

The sad part is that I still haven't claimed that Greenway is anything more than a good player. The numbers clearly show that at the absolute worst, he's on par with Kunin and Eriksson Ek, yet I'm still the biased one for saying so.

maybe youre missreading, he said you were not using per 60 stats, now youre gonna argue you used them only in a reply? ok. he did float between shutdown and first line if im not mistaken. not exactly a lot of being top 6 but he was not completely shutdown like ek was all year long. im not basing anything off advanced stats, im watching them play and outside of a long reach and ability to use that to protect the puck what do you see in greenway that shows him as skilled where ek doesnt? as stated before neither has great hands or a great shot. ek has a powerful shot but a slow release, greenway just plays slow for the most part. ek does have playmaking ability that he has shown at every level. as i said before the same which is fought for zucc, just because he makes a good pass and foligno or whomever cant score does that mean he is a bad playmaker? you state zucc just needs finishers but ek is not allowed that same argument? by no means do i see him on the playmaking level of zucc but he sure as hell is better at it than youre gonna lead on and there is no stat that will allow a view of that other than actually watching his passes every game. its not magical but he is better than you lead on and if given the 2c role he can excel at being a playmaking center.

 

[2Pair]

maybe youre missreading, he said you were not using per 60 stats, now youre gonna argue you used them only in a reply? ok. he did float between shutdown and first line if im not mistaken. not exactly a lot of being top 6 but he was not completely shutdown like ek was all year long. im not basing anything off advanced stats, im watching them play and outside of a long reach and ability to use that to protect the puck what do you see in greenway that shows him as skilled where ek doesnt? as stated before neither has great hands or a great shot. ek has a powerful shot but a slow release, greenway just plays slow for the most part. ek does have playmaking ability that he has shown at every level. as i said before the same which is fought for zucc, just because he makes a good pass and foligno or whomever cant score does that mean he is a bad playmaker? you state zucc just needs finishers but ek is not allowed that same argument? by no means do i see him on the playmaking level of zucc but he sure as hell is better at it than youre gonna lead on and there is no stat that will allow a view of that other than actually watching his passes every game. its not magical but he is better than you lead on and if given the 2c role he can excel at being a playmaking center.

In 101 games in Sweden Joel Eriksson Ek had 16 assists.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Because he doesn't really have the puck skills, passing, or shot to play any other role. But, what would make him good at the net front role? His ability to play with his stick upside down?

I get that just about every players numbers would be better if given a bunch of PP time. That doesn't mean that every player should be given a bunch of PP time. Some guys are just not likely to ever be anything more than very good 3rd liners. I think the Wild have 3 of those guys right now. I think all 3 of Greenway, Ek, and Kunin can probably give you quality minutes on a top 6 line without really hurting your team, but none will ever more valuable in the top 6 as they would be as shutdown 3rd liners. Kunin could be an exception if he ever learns how to catch a pass.

Playing a guy like Ek between guys like Zuccarello, Kaprizov, or Fiala would be great in their own end. It would probably lead to spending quite a bit more time on offense. The only problem is that the amount of plays that would die because of Ek's lack of skill would more than offset any defense that he plays.

Kind of like the Jets putting Adam Lowry at Center on PP! Not very productive unless you flood the net with tippable shots and cause rebounds for a 'Lowry' or E-Ek type player to slammer in.

In 101 games in Sweden Joel Eriksson Ek had 16 assists.

Wow. He needs PPL #1 time to boost his numbers compared to SHL in Sweden! Has nothing to do with earning that role or being skilled at it. No fair his numbers sucked in Sweden but he deserves top-6/ top-ppl role in NHL. ?? So his numbers improve. Are you his agent trying to boost clients next contract value?

 

[Mickey the mouse]

Greenway and Kunin are both more skilled than Ek.

!000% you're wrong

Ek is more skilled than both period

 

[2Pair]

!000% you're wrong

Ek is more skilled than both period

I completely agree. I am 000% wrong.