Speculation: Offseason Thread III: ideas, proposals, general roster discussion

[majormajor]

That's just incorrect, sorry.

Go ahead George, tell us everything you know about Josh Anderson and why he isn't a good teammate.

What I'm guessing has happened here, is that you're just assuming he was some problem child because of a contract dispute with Jarmo. That has nothing to do with Josh's qualities as a player or teammate. Three years ago Jarmo abused his leverage to force a 3 year lowball deal on Josh. Jarmo refused to give him a 1 or 2 year deal, and most any player would have found that objectionable. And to Josh's credit he never ever let that conflict bleed into his demeanor or character as a player. He gave us his all (including his health). We were blessed to have him. He was absolutely central in the room, too. He was Seth Jones' best friend on the team. They'll miss him. I'm not sure how many people missed Ryan "he works as hard as he knows how" Johansen. Funny guy but not an ideal guy to go in the trenches with.

 

[GeorgeReznik1]

You have to give a ton of credit to Jarmo. Johansen is a 55-60 point below average defensive center making 8 mil a year long term, and that's 55-60 points on a stacked team. Josh Anderson is a 30-40 often injured point player who's going to be earning 7-8 mil in the middle of his contract. Even hit 5.5 cap hit is 2 mil too high.

Now we have a 55-60 point center likely looking to get Johansen money and he's just not worth it yet.

 

[GeorgeReznik1]

Interesting comments when nobody knows what he is asking for or being offered. This isn't Andreas Athanasiou holding out to get a 1.3875 million dollar contract. He's shown he is capable of being a 60+ point player on a poor offensive team at only 22 years old and had 10 points in the playoffs last season.

Interesting calling a team that had many 30 goal scorers a poor offensive team in the only year he's ever reached 60+ points.

 

[GeorgeReznik1]

Go ahead George, tell us everything you know about Josh Anderson and why he isn't a good teammate.

What I'm guessing has happened here, is that you're just assuming he was some problem child because of a contract dispute with Jarmo. That has nothing to do with Josh's qualities as a player or teammate. Three years ago Jarmo abused his leverage to force a 3 year lowball deal on Josh. Jarmo refused to give him a 1 or 2 year deal, and most any player would have found that objectionable. And to Josh's credit he never ever let that conflict bleed into his demeanor or character as a player. He gave us his all (including his health). We were blessed to have him. He was absolutely central in the room, too. He was Seth Jones' best friend on the team. They'll miss him. I'm not sure how many people missed Ryan "he works as hard as he knows how" Johansen. Funny guy but not an ideal guy to go in the trenches with.

Well, as usual, you guessed wrong again, but hey I'm not surprised to be honest youre trying your best.

No, there's no other player in the league that would have found a 1 or 2 year contract objectionable. Please stop using hyperbole, TIA.

Multiple contract disputes and asking for trades are 100% the sign of a bad teammate. No one came out to defend him either. Jarmo didn't abuse anything, Anderson tried to ask for a contract WAAAY above his market value and was put in his place as he should have been. Andersons never been a 50 point player but fans like you get too attached and think certain players are worth the moon, nevermind all the games he always misses with injuries, by all accounts most teammates got tired of his temper tantrum hold out shtick and were beyond find with him getting shipped out, especially to get a player worth his contract in return.

 

[cslebn]

I'm not concerned just because of the quote about how he feels on the ice. Isn't this what the high-ankle sprain is known for after the initial 6 months or so? Never feeling right but tending to be fine?

Yes. They haunt you basically forever.

I still feel mine some days from 2 years ago. It's so much fun.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

From a new Athletic article pondering the start of the season and training camp on Sunday if PLD isn't signed.

"Off the ice, Dubois would draw the immediate ire of the Blue Jackets front office and Tortorella. Fair or not, understandable or not, Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekäläinen has made it clear that the contract offer will only get worse if the player isn’t signed by the start of training camp."

This is where we burn bridges.

FWIW in the same article Portzline says the “strong” expectation is that PLD signs before camp. Although he does mention there was nothing new on that front to report.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I recall reading from at least one player (I believe foligno) talking about how much of a loss Anderson is going to be to the room because he was so likable and goofy. Can’t find the quote right now but will try later, but I believe I read them. I don’t buy Anderson as a team problem at all. At least with Johansen you have an argument.

 

[DarkandStormy]

From a new Athletic article pondering the start of the season and training camp on Sunday if PLD isn't signed.

"Off the ice, Dubois would draw the immediate ire of the Blue Jackets front office and Tortorella. Fair or not, understandable or not, Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekäläinen has made it clear that the contract offer will only get worse if the player isn’t signed by the start of training camp."

This is where we burn bridges.

A tale as old as time.

I believe the thought was PLD's camp wanted to get a comp off of Barzal's contract. But Barzal remains unsigned.

With a flat cap, it's probably in everyone's best interest to go with a 2-3 year bridge deal (just replicate Werenski's contract more or less). I can see the argument for something like an 8x8ish but the team's finances are going to be screwed this year. PLD probably personally benefits by signing short-term now and then a max deal in a couple years, but there is some risk in that (injury, Torts continues to not use him on the PP regularly, deflating his point totals, etc.).

 

[majormajor]

Well, as usual, you guessed wrong again, but hey I'm not surprised to be honest youre trying your best.

No, there's no other player in the league that would have found a 1 or 2 year contract objectionable. Please stop using hyperbole, TIA.

Multiple contract disputes and asking for trades are 100% the sign of a bad teammate. No one came out to defend him either. Jarmo didn't abuse anything, Anderson tried to ask for a contract WAAAY above his market value and was put in his place as he should have been.

You're coming at me with over the top hostility while plainly not understanding what I'm referring to.

In the 2017 negotiation it was Jarmo that said you CAN'T have a short term prove it deal. Josh was willing to play for peanuts and Jarmo said 3 years of peanuts, or you don't play. That's obviously different from a player refusing to prove his worth and holding out, it's something Jarmo did and it's not a maneuver that I've ever seen a GM do before. So Josh takes that deal, plays his ass off, wrecks himself for our team, knowing that in his next deal he's going to use his leverage. Good for him. Good for us for not paying him that huge contract but if he wants to get paid, it's understandable. And I'm sure his teammates understand why Josh wanted to get paid after all of that and why Jarmo didn't want to pay him.

Andersons never been a 50 point player but fans like you get too attached and think certain players are worth the moon, nevermind all the games he always misses with injuries, by all accounts most teammates got tired of his temper tantrum hold out shtick and were beyond find with him getting shipped out, especially to get a player worth his contract in return.

- You're assuming I would have paid Josh that ridiculous contract. This is a debate about your unfounded accusation that Josh is a bad teammate, and your lumping him in with a prima donna like Johansen. It has nothing to do with what I think Josh should be paid.
- Missing games with injuries doesn't impugn someone's character. I suppose you think Ryan Murray is a shitty person? Josh went to war for us, got punched in the face for us by the baddest men in the league, went into hits at very unsafe speeds almost every game. Did you ever play the game? Do you know the reverence players have for teammates that do anything for the team?
[MOD]

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Interesting calling a team that had many 30 goal scorers a poor offensive team in the only year he's ever reached 60+ points.

Wow. 1 is many. Only Cam had over 30 that year

He was on pace for probably around 55 points on a team that only had 2 goal scorers with more than 20 at the time the season got shut down. Realistically the team would have only had 3 20 goal scorers if there were 82 games played with PLD being the 3rd. He did this in spite of missing Panarin and hardly any scoring from Cam. His point total may have been slightly down but there is no mistaking he was a more important part of the offense last season.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

FWIW in the same article Portzline says the “strong” expectation is that PLD signs before camp. Although he does mention there was nothing new on that front to report.

I still feel good that it will happen as well. I was just pointing out the comment in general for when Jarmo plays hardball. It is one thing to hold the line in negotiating but it is another thing to sink to reducing a value because they hold out. This is where things get personal and essentially broke the relationships with Johansen and Anderson. They can claim it doesn't get personal but there is no mistaking it did.

 

[GeorgeReznik1]

You're coming at me with over the top hostility while plainly not understanding what I'm referring to.

In the 2017 negotiation it was Jarmo that said you CAN'T have a short term prove it deal. Josh was willing to play for peanuts and Jarmo said 3 years of peanuts, or you don't play. That's obviously different from a player refusing to prove his worth and holding out, it's something Jarmo did and it's not a maneuver that I've ever seen a GM do before. So Josh takes that deal, plays his ass off, wrecks himself for our team, knowing that in his next deal he's going to use his leverage. Good for him. Good for us for not paying him that huge contract but if he wants to get paid, it's understandable. And I'm sure his teammates understand why Josh wanted to get paid after all of that and why Jarmo didn't want to pay him.



- You're assuming I would have paid Josh that ridiculous contract. This is a debate about your unfounded accusation that Josh is a bad teammate, and your lumping him in with a prima donna like Johansen. It has nothing to do with what I think Josh should be paid.
- Missing games with injuries doesn't impugn someone's character. I suppose you think Ryan Murray is a shitty person? Josh went to war for us, got punched in the face for us by the baddest men in the league, went into hits at very unsafe speeds almost every game. The same things that put him on the shelf were things people loved about his game.
[MOD]

There's zero hostility, but sure bud. I understand what you're saying, its just wrong. Just because you believe what you spew doesn't mean I don't understand it. [MOD]

In 2017 I've seen Jarmo do something I've seen done hundreds of thousands of times all throughout sports history. It's the most common negotiating tactic In the sports world.

Josh was NEVER willing to play for Peanuts. He was DEMANDING 6+ plus long term or nothing at all at the time. He felt he was the franchise golden boy that should be paid handsomely, he had proved absolutely nothing to that point besides a fluke season.


In that time, Anderson continues to get injured, fails to play to his contract value, threatens another hold out and thinks he has the right to say 1 year deal or max term deal and in tern it shows why the GMs always know best.

No im not assuming anything. You have to make better and smarter arguments other than throwing words in my post. Everything about Anderson screams prima dona, many threats to hold out, many unrealistic contract demands, always injured, always lackluster production. Guys like that are usually moved out asap because GMs know they bring the teams value and success down like an anchor.

 

[GeorgeReznik1]

Wow. 1 is many. Only Cam had over 30 that year

He was on pace for probably around 55 points on a team that only had 2 goal scorers with more than 20 at the time the season got shut down. Realistically the team would have only had 3 20 goal scorers if there were 82 games played with PLD being the 3rd. He did this in spite of missing Panarin and hardly any scoring from Cam. His point total may have been slightly down but there is no mistaking he was a more important part of the offense last season.

Panarin was a 30 goal scorer. Duchesne was a 30 goal scorer. Atkinson was a 30 goal scorer. Anderson was a 30 goal scorer. Foligno was a 30 goal scorer.

Nevermind the fact I didn't say they all scored 30 that year, but to say they didn't have talent is trolling and a flat out lie.

He was on pace for 52.8 points. Not 55. He's very average offensively and at least 1 good to great offensive player on his wing to be good on offense, not great, just good.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Panarin was a 30 goal scorer. Duchesne was a 30 goal scorer. Atkinson was a 30 goal scorer. Anderson was a 30 goal scorer. Foligno was a 30 goal scorer.

Nevermind the fact I didn't say they all scored 30 that year, but to say they didn't have talent is trolling and a flat out lie.

He was on pace for 52.8 points. Not 55. He's very average offensively and at least 1 good to great offensive player on his wing to be good on offense, not great, just good.

Now why you gotta do Boone Jenner dirty like that lol

Anderson's career high is 27 goals (he played all 82 games that season). Are we just...rounding up?

 

[majormajor]

There's zero hostility, but sure bud. I understand what you're saying, its just wrong. Just because you believe what you spew doesn't mean I don't understand it. [MOD]

In 2017 I've seen Jarmo do something I've seen done hundreds of thousands of times all throughout sports history. It's the most common negotiating tactic In the sports world.

Josh was NEVER willing to play for Peanuts. He was DEMANDING 6+ plus long term or nothing at all at the time. He felt he was the franchise golden boy that should be paid handsomely, he had proved absolutely nothing to that point besides a fluke season.


In that time, Anderson continues to get injured, fails to play to his contract value, threatens another hold out and thinks he has the right to say 1 year deal or max term deal and in tern it shows why the GMs always know best.

No im not assuming anything. You have to make better and smarter arguments other than throwing words in my post. Everything about Anderson screams prima dona, many threats to hold out, many unrealistic contract demands, always injured, always lackluster production. Guys like that are usually moved out asap because GMs know they bring the teams value and success down like an anchor.

Nope, you're still not following. The supposed "holdout" that wasn't a holdout was in 2017, that's what I was referring to. That's where Josh was willing to play for near league minimum on a prove it deal ("peanuts") and Jarmo said no, it has to be three years or you don't play. No you haven't seen that "hundreds of thousands of times". In the NHL the normal thing to do is to give the player an option of a 1 or 2 year prove-it deal if you can't agree on long term. Long term or you don't play, coming from the GM? Not common, to say the least.

The "6+" thing was last year. Two separate years. Whether Josh was asking for too much money last year is immaterial here, I've already conceded that I wouldn't pay him that much so I don't know why you keep reasserting it as if it is evidence of Josh's quality as a teammate. It is not. I'm still waiting for you to provide me with these "accounts" of his teammates being tired of him.

 

[GeorgeReznik1]

Nope, you're still not following. The supposed "holdout" that wasn't a holdout was in 2017, that's what I was referring to. That's where Josh was willing to play for near league minimum on a prove it deal ("peanuts") and Jarmo said no, it has to be three years or you don't play. No you haven't seen that "hundreds of thousands of times". In the NHL the normal thing to do is to give the player an option of a 1 or 2 year prove-it deal if you can't agree on long term. Long term or you don't play, coming from the GM? Not common, to say the least.

The "6+" thing was last year. Two separate years. Whether Josh was asking for too much money last year is immaterial here, I've already conceded that I wouldn't pay him that much so I don't know why you keep reasserting it as if it is evidence of Josh's quality as a teammate. It is not. I'm still waiting for you to provide me with these "accounts" of his teammates being tired of him.

I'm following bud, you're just wrong. Thats all. Anderson was never willing to play for anything less than 6+ until he was going to start missing games, and even them he was never willing to play for peanuts. That's been proven to be false.

Jarmo also never said it HAS to be 3 years or you don't play, that's also factually incorrect and incredibly well documented and yes I have seen it hundreds of thousands of times because it's it's most common negotiating tactic in all of sports.

[MOD]

No, the 6+ thing was in 2017, not last year. Please stop lying, TIA. No, it's not immaterial because if he were a decent teammate he would have resigned for a reasonable amount, not demanding long term high end contract or threatening to hold out again. I'm not sure if you've ever actually followed this team or what, its very concerning so be so stout on knowing so little of the situation though.

 

[majormajor]

I'm following bud, you're just wrong. Thats all. Anderson was never willing to play for anything less than 6+ until he was going to start missing games, and even them he was never willing to play for peanuts. That's been proven to be false.

Jarmo also never said it HAS to be 3 years or you don't play, that's also factually incorrect and incredibly well documented and yes I have seen it hundreds of thousands of times because it's it's most common negotiating tactic in all of sports.

[MOD]

No, the 6+ thing was in 2017, not last year. Please stop lying, TIA. No, it's not immaterial because if he were a decent teammate he would have resigned for a reasonable amount, not demanding long term high end contract or threatening to hold out again. I'm not sure if you've ever actually followed this team or what, its very concerning so be so stout on knowing so little of the situation though.

Ah I see. I suppose I would owe you a big apology if it turns out that Josh was asking for $6m+ in 2017. Go ahead, show me. I'm unable to find it.

Likewise unable to find any reference to Josh's teammates being tired of him. You're going to have to help me out here. I'm sure you're going to come through with the truth at any minute now.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I still feel good that it will happen as well. I was just pointing out the comment in general for when Jarmo plays hardball. It is one thing to hold the line in negotiating but it is another thing to sink to reducing a value because they hold out. This is where things get personal and essentially broke the relationships with Johansen and Anderson. They can claim it doesn't get personal but there is no mistaking it did.

yeah no issue with your point. Was just making that PLD tidbit known lol

 

[GeorgeReznik1]

Ah I see. I suppose I would owe you a big apology if it turns out that Josh was asking for $6m+ in 2017. Go ahead, show me. I'm unable to find it.

Likewise unable to find any reference to Josh's teammates being tired of him. You're going to have to help me out here. I'm sure you're going to come through with the truth at any minute now.

Weird how you can't find it but csnt find where Jarmo was forcing Anderson to sign for 3 years only and Anderson was going to play for peanuts.

Kinda almost like that never happened, just like half the stuff you tried to tell me I said.

I'm still waiting for proof from you bud, so again, here we are.

You have to start making post that can be backed up with substance if you want to be taken seriously here. You absolutely have to.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I'll start freaking out about PLD on Monday.

Dubois is represented by Pat Brisson, who happens to also represent Zach Werenski. Z signed three days before camp in 2019. No one mentions that contract negotiation as being contentious.

Brisson also represents Seth Jones, Alex Wennberg, Jack Johnson, Steffan Matteau, and several other former Jackets. None of them are in the group of "things going sour." Some were late - Wennberg signed Sept. 1st coming off his ELC.

The PLD thing now that I've looked into it seems like Porty stirring the pot more than anything. He notes there's nothing new to report, it's expected to get done, and PLD has been practicing with teammates in Columbus. Yawn.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Columbus Blue Jackets' RFA Josh Anderson looking for a job in Switzerland
It Feels Like the Blue Jackets-Josh Anderson Contract Saga is Teetering on the Edge of Volatility
Does Josh Anderson Finally Have a "Comparable" Contract After Connor Brown's Three-Year Deal with the Maple Leafs?
Support your Columbus Blue Jackets for charity with NHL face coverings

Another source indicated Anderson used Tom Wilson as a comparable. The Washington forward signed for two years and $4 million, but that did not bridge the gap, either. Anderson’s agent, Darren Ferris, declined comment.

 

[majormajor]

Columbus Blue Jackets' RFA Josh Anderson looking for a job in Switzerland
It Feels Like the Blue Jackets-Josh Anderson Contract Saga is Teetering on the Edge of Volatility
Does Josh Anderson Finally Have a "Comparable" Contract After Connor Brown's Three-Year Deal with the Maple Leafs?
Support your Columbus Blue Jackets for charity with NHL face coverings

That is the Contract Dispute, I haven't forgotten that there was a dispute. I'm asking if anyone has heard that "He was DEMANDING 6+ plus long term or nothing at all" in 2017. Has anyone heard of this?

 

[GeorgeReznik1]

Weird how there's no proof it was 3 years or nothing or that Anderson ever said he would play for peanuts.

Talk about awkward.

 

[Monstershockey]

I think Anderson wanted 6 mil over the life of the contract (3 yrs.), not per year. There were other guys coming off their entry level deals and he felt he should be in the same category as them. If he was asking 6 mil per year, after scoring 29 points, he would have been laughed at, or totally ignored. He had a case, though, seeing he was comparing what he wanted to what Connor Brown received in Toronto. He ended up outscoring him point-wise (77-57) in the first 2 years, but last year ended up being a mess. Toronto traded Brown after 2 years, then he had his best season with Ottawa last year.

 

[Monstershockey]

Weird how there's no proof it was 3 years or nothing or that Anderson ever said he would play for peanuts.

Talk about awkward.

He was willing to take the qualifying offer at a little over 700 thousand. That's quite a bit less than what he wanted.