Speculation: Offseason Thread #10?: Whats the plan, Stan?

[Gardner McKay]

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[NickyFotiu]

I have a question for the folks that say we should tear it all down.

Would you be willing to buy at least green level season tickets for the next 3 seasons if we play Tanner Glass, Dan Girardi, and Marc Staal the most minutes on the team to achieve your total rebuild?

 

[darko]

BB - I'd put Stepan in the Kreider/Miller/Hayes group.

 

[silverfish]

I guess things were seeing as becoming a bit heated, but RB, I'd be happy to continue our discussion from the previous thread because I think we were approaching a really interesting subject that could bring some good conversation to the board.

I'm totally 'meh' on the moves made so far.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

BB - I'd put Stepan in the Kreider/Miller/Hayes group.

Only thing with Stepan is that I think he would bring back a lot. I'd definitely keep Stepan before Zucc/Brass though.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Not happy because it seems like there's no direction for this team. I'd be fine if we rebuilt or went for it.
This **** we are seeing now is the worst of all options

 

[darko]

Only thing with Stepan is that I think he would bring back a lot. I'd definitely keep Stepan before Zucc/Brass though.

Gotcha. Pretty much my line of thinking.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

Are you familiar with the term "straw man" by chance? All I've said was that I don't think he's a top pairing defensemen, and you've now gone as far as to say I'm just labeling players based on arbitrary ideas and how much ice-time they get. I never said I was against Barrie, or that he's a terrible player, or that he wouldn't improve the team. Yet you've decided that's basically my opinion in a nut shell.

Calling me cocky doesn't mean I'm going to write out a lengthy post to defend a stance that I never even took.

That's not how we got here.

You insist Barrie isn't a "top-pair defenseman" yet refuse to answer the straightforward question I asked, and have made no attempt to explain where your seemingly arbitrary justifications for such labels come from.

That's why I tried guessing.

And still, you've only responded with vague and arrogance; nothing to actually support your claim.

Why isn't a guy who scored 100 points in 2 seasons a top-pair defender?

And why wouldn't you want to upgrade Klein/McIlrath/Gitardi if you could?

It's not like you just put down a specific proposal (ie: "Miller/Kreider+ for Barrie? No way! Keep Miller/Kreider!")

I just don't get it.

Barrie would make nearly every team in the league better.

How many 50-point defenseman are there in the NHL?

Even at his absolute worst, is he really worse defensively than Girardi?

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but I don't understand how Barrie isn't a dynamic player in today's NHL that every team would want.

Just doesn't add up; that's all. Nothing personal.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

I'm meh on the moves so far. Like DanielBrassard said, i'm unhappy that our team hasn't picked a certain direction to take.

On the contrary, despite them being depth moves, I do like our signings. Paliotta's got some upside, Gerbe and Grabner are speedy bottom-6 options, and Clendening could always become something decent.

The Holden trade was okay, as well.

 

[darko]

That's not how we got here.

You insist Barrie isn't a "top-pair defenseman" yet refuse to answer the straightforward question I asked, and have made no attempt to explain where your seemingly arbitrary justifications for such labels come from.

That's why I tried guessing.

And still, you've only responded with vague and arrogance; nothing to actually support your claim.

Why isn't a guy who scored 100 points in 2 seasons a top-pair defender?

And why wouldn't you want to upgrade Klein/McIlrath/Gitardi if you could?

It's not like you just put down a specific proposal (ie: "Miller/Kreider+ for Barrie? No way! Keep Miller/Kreider!")

I just don't get it.

Barrie would make nearly every team in the league better.

How many 50-point defenseman are there in the NHL?

Even at his absolute worst, is he really worse defensively than Girardi?

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but I don't understand how Barrie isn't a dynamic player in today's NHL that every team would want.

Just doesn't add up; that's all. Nothing personal.

Do you consider Yandle a top pairing D-man?

 

[silverfish]

 

[NickyFotiu]

That's not how we got here.

You insist Barrie isn't a "top-pair defenseman" yet refuse to answer the straightforward question I asked, and have made no attempt to explain where your seemingly arbitrary justifications for such labels come from.

That's why I tried guessing.

And still, you've only responded with vague and arrogance; nothing to actually support your claim.

Why isn't a guy who scored 100 points in 2 seasons a top-pair defender?

And why wouldn't you want to upgrade Klein/McIlrath/Gitardi if you could?

It's not like you just put down a specific proposal (ie: "Miller/Kreider+ for Barrie? No way! Keep Miller/Kreider!")

I just don't get it.

Barrie would make nearly every team in the league better.

How many 50-point defenseman are there in the NHL?

Even at his absolute worst, is he really worse defensively than Girardi?

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but I don't understand how Barrie isn't a dynamic player in today's NHL that every team would want.

Just doesn't add up; that's all. Nothing personal.

How would you contrast Barrie with Yandle?

 

[JT Kreider]

I have a question for the folks that say we should tear it all down.

Would you be willing to buy at least green level season tickets for the next 3 seasons if we play Tanner Glass, Dan Girardi, and Marc Staal the most minutes on the team to achieve your total rebuild?

It doesn't matter about us. Hockey night in NYC is still a good night out for the businessmen taking potential clients out. They take up the majority of the lower bowl on most nights anyway. You can hear them making deals from the Chase Bridge.

A rebuild would make me beyond happy. It would at least show there is a plan or a direction in place. Instead of going into the season with this mediocre roster. We'll be decent enough to be a wild card team, maybe win a round if we draw the Capitals. But nowhere near good enough to make a serious run. And more importantly, we won't be bad enough to get those top 3 picks we desperately need. That is where all the franchise changing talent is. Nearly every legit contender's best players are those drafted in the top 3.

Within 3 years we'll be the worst team in the Metro as our division and the East as a whole gets markedly better. And then we'll start the much needed rebuild. But until then, this whole thing will be a giant waste of time.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Not happy because it seems like there's no direction for this team. I'd be fine if we rebuilt or went for it.
This **** we are seeing now is the worst of all options

Went for what? The Cup?! We don't even have the pieces to help us in that direction. We will have to be patient, maybe for a very long time.

This team is about set for next season. I'll bet ya we won't see a big deal or anything remotely close until the trade deadline. Where Gorts will try to stock up on picks and will fail miserably in trying to do so.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It doesn't matter about us. Hockey night in NYC is still a good night out for the businessmen taking potential clients out. They take up the majority of the lower bowl on most nights anyway. You can hear them making deals from the Chase Bridge.

A rebuild would make me beyond happy. It would at least show there is a plan or a direction in place. Instead of going into the season with this mediocre roster. We'll be decent enough to be a wild card team, maybe win a round if we draw the Capitals. But nowhere near good enough to make a serious run. And more importantly, we won't be bad enough to get those top 3 picks we desperately need. That is where all the franchise changing talent is. Nearly every legit contender's best players are those drafted in the top 3.

Within 3 years we'll be the worst team in the Metro as our division and the East as a whole gets markedly better. And then we'll start the much needed rebuild. But until then, this whole thing will be a giant waste of time.

Does that mean your answer is no to buying season tickets to watch Tanner Glass, Dan Girardi, and Marc Staal play top 3 minutes on the team?

 

[JT Kreider]

Does that mean your answer is no to buying season tickets to watch Tanner Glass, Dan Girardi, and Marc Staal play top 3 minutes on the team?

I wouldn't buy season tickets to watch this team as currently constructed.

But that is just me and I'm really fed up with this core (Staal, Girardi, Nash more so) and AV. This past season was tough to watch and at times I actually despised the Rangers. Like the Edmonton game and getting shutout in Ottawa really pissed me off.

We'd be able to survive a rebuild though. The Rangers were still a hot ticket in the early 2000's when the team had no Cup aspirations. Or any aspirations, period.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I wouldn't buy season tickets to watch this team as currently constructed.

I understand but would you pay your own money for season tickets to watch the team while it crashes for 3-5 years to achieve your goals? The quickest way to a great draft pick would be playing guys like Tanner Glass and Girardi top minutes on the team.

 

[Blueblood9]

Just out of curiosity and ***** and giggles cause im at work and im bored.

If and I said IF the rangers say screw it and go full on rebuild and tank and trade everyone including Hank and McD

A: what would the haul of picks and prospects look like
B: How long until we are contending again realistically?

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

Do you consider Yandle a top pairing D-man?

I'd say he's in the conversation; maybe just outside that label.

He didn't have the best last two years, but before that he was widely considered a 1B or a #2 which likely puts him on a top-pair. He's a bit older now and hasn't been great defensively in NY.

Barrie just put up back-to-back 50 point seasons on a worse team and he's 6 or 7 years younger than Yandle.

Do you not think Barrie is a #1B or at worst a #2? That's top-PAIR.

Not to mention Yandle is what he is at this point while Barrie is still just scratching the surface as he enters the prime of his career.

Not a terrible comparison, but not the greatest either.

Any other 24-year-old RHD that scored 100 points the last two years that aren't considered a "top-pair defenseman?"

 

[Gardner McKay]

Just out of curiosity and ***** and giggles cause im at work and im bored.

If and I said IF the rangers say screw it and go full on rebuild and tank and trade everyone including Hank and McD

A: what would the haul of picks and prospects look like
B: How long until we are contending again realistically?

So if we traded Stepan, Brassard, Henrik, McDonagh, Zuccarello, Klein?

Probably 4-5 first round picks, 2-3 blue chip prospects, 2-3 good prospects, 2-3 mediocre prospects and a few 2nds + 3rds.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Just out of curiosity and ***** and giggles cause im at work and im bored.

If and I said IF the rangers say screw it and go full on rebuild and tank and trade everyone including Hank and McD

A: what would the haul of picks and prospects look like
B: How long until we are contending again realistically?

Some mid round first round picks for many of our players. Maybe higher for a few.

There is no guarantee for how long. There are at least a half dozen teams that have been drafting in the bottom 10 for many years and they still miss the playoffs while we got 101 points last season.

 

[Doctor King Schultz]

Just out of curiosity and ***** and giggles cause im at work and im bored.

If and I said IF the rangers say screw it and go full on rebuild and tank and trade everyone including Hank and McD

A: what would the haul of picks and prospects look like
B: How long until we are contending again realistically?

B: A lot sooner than we will be contending again without the rebuild.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

How would you contrast Barrie with Yandle?

Was Yandle not considered a top-pairing D when he was Barrie's age and playing *cough* TOP PAIR *cough* minutes for Phoenix putting up 50+ points?

Yandle is 6 years older and hasn't had the best two years and still got 6M+ per year without even hitting UFA and testing the waters / seeking the highest bid.

Barrie, who outscored Yandle, is 6 years younger, and a RFA, and he's still going to get a similar deal. Can you imagine what Barrie would get as a UFA right now? 7M+ long-term. Some desperate team would probably go above 8M.

Barrie is a top-pairing defender. So far, there's only proof to support this claim. I haven't seen a single thing to refute it.

 

[JT Kreider]

I understand but would you pay your own money for season tickets to watch the team while it crashes for 3-5 years to achieve your goals? The quickest way to a great draft pick would be playing guys like Tanner Glass and Girardi top minutes on the team.

Or trading Stepan, McDonagh, Brassard, Zuccarello and Lundqvist for elite young talent.

I'd watch that over what we currently have.

The Yankees are in the same boat. All day Yankee fans call into the Fan and ESPN and want to trade all the oldies and bring up the young kids (I'm a Mets fan so can't recall their names).

 

[darko]

I'd say he's in the conversation; maybe just outside that label.

He didn't have the best last two years, but before that he was widely considered a 1B or a #2 which likely puts him on a top-pair. He's a bit older now and hasn't been great defensively in NY.

Barrie just put up back-to-back 50 point seasons on a worse team and he's 6 or 7 years younger than Yandle.

Do you not think Barrie is a #1B or at worst a #2? That's top-PAIR.

Not to mention Yandle is what he is at this point while Barrie is still just scratching the surface as he enters the prime of his career.

Not a terrible comparison, but not the greatest either.

Any other 24-year-old RHD that scored 100 points the last two years that aren't considered a "top-pair defenseman?"

IMO right now Yandle is the better player.