Speculation: Offseason coaching thread: Should they stay or should they go?

[Gurglesons]

That seems more like a lawyer answer from Dubas than anything. New Jersey may have not asked permission to talk with Sullivan about a job, but that doesn't mean that Sullivan and Dubas have not had discussions about Sullivan's future with the Penguins.

That's not even me coping, it's just that the Dubas quote doesn't really seem to kill what is being suggested out there. No one was saying that New Jersey was asking for permission to talk with Sullivan, what was being discussed is that Sullivan is interested in coaching for New Jersey and the team and him may mutually agree to part ways.

 

[Gurglesons]

Devils fans think Sullivan is a great coach and the issue is our roster is old and it's Malkin and Letang's fault. Same exact logic they used when I tried to warn them about Marino.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

On the outside maybe. Inside, I can't imagine he's THAT unaware of the totality of his failures since 2017.

When you think you're never to blame, you don't worry about the failures that obviously weren't your fault.

 

[Gurglesons]

When you think you're never to blame, you don't worry about the failures that obviously weren't your fault.

Yeah not sure how anyone can think Sullivan thinks he has done something wrong.

Dude thinks this team hasn't won becasue "hockey is a competitive game and there are a lot of other good teams out there".

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Devils fans think Sullivan is a great coach and the issue is our roster is old and it's Malkin and Letang's fault. Same exact logic they used when I tried to warn them about Marino.

They should know they are in good company -- the local Pittsburgh sports media. Known bastions of wisdom and non-biased analysis.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

When the tide first started to turn on Sullivan around here, someone posted that "Sullivan can only ever be wronged, he can never be wrong", and it's evergreen.

Also Emp; that's absolutely, 1000% cope. I say that as someone who wants you to be right.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A lot of NHL fans are still stuck in 2018 with their views of Sullivan. The best way to describe his coaching ability at this point: the Penguins added Erik Karlsson to their already talented player list and it resulted in the 3rd worst powerplay in hockey, while Sullivan tried effectively nothing to change things.

When the tide first started to turn on Sullivan around here, someone posted that "Sullivan can only ever be wronged, he can never be wrong", and it's evergreen.

Also Emp; that's absolutely, 1000% cope. I say that as someone who wants you to be right.

I'm not saying that as in "I really want it to be true". I just don't think that quote by Dubas actually addresses the rumor that is out there.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

That seems more like a lawyer answer from Dubas than anything. New Jersey may have not asked permission to talk with Sullivan about a job, but that doesn't mean that Sullivan and Dubas have not had discussions about Sullivan's future with the Penguins.

That's not even me coping, it's just that the Dubas quote doesn't really seem to kill what is being suggested out there. No one was saying that New Jersey was asking for permission to talk with Sullivan, what was being discussed is that Sullivan is interested in coaching for New Jersey and the team and him may mutually agree to part ways.

Yeah, but if this was going to go anywhere, the permission aspect is a critical step.

I guess Sullivan could technically just quit, but I'm not sure if the Pens have any recourse like a non-compete or something for the duration of his contract, or if it just gets tossed in the trash.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, but if this was going to go anywhere, the permission aspect is a critical step.

I guess Sullivan could technically just quit, but I'm not sure if the Pens have any recourse like a non-compete or something for the duration of his contract, or if it just gets tossed in the trash.

Sullivan wouldn't be quitting, both he and Dubas would mutually agree to part ways.

 

[Doctor Coffin]

Anybody available is better than Hakstol

Seattle Kraken Fanpage on Instagram: "ESPN's Emily Kaplan reported earlier today that a handful of pretty significant players on the Seattle Kraken made it clear to Ron Francis and management that they did not want to play on this team in the future

255 likes, 12 comments - krakenszn on April 29, 2024: "ESPN's Emily Kaplan reported earlier today that a handful of pretty significant players on the Seattle Kraken made it clear to Ron Franci...".

www.instagram.com

Apparently, a little like in 1988, the player, they wanted to find a big dummy for not making the playoffs, and they chose him.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

There's also a rumor the Kraken are interested in getting Bylsma to be their head coach. God damn, man, imagine going from Hakstol to Bylsma. That's time to find a new team to root for.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

People will be begging for Sullivan back 5 games into the Dave Hakstol era

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If/when the coaching change happens, I hope the Pens don't just default to the recycling bin of NHL coach regulars. Broaden the scope, check out some European coaches, check out some coaches who haven't gotten a shot in the NHL yet, etc. Don't just go "Oh well, I guess Gallant/Deboer/Ruff/Hakstol/etc is available. May as well get that guy" or some bullshit.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

What's the connection between Cooper and Sid and/or Cooper and Dubas? There has to be something. That's my tinfoil conspiracy hat

 

[Pancakes]

Devils fans think Sullivan is a great coach and the issue is our roster is old and it's Malkin and Letang's fault. Same exact logic they used when I tried to warn them about Marino.

I'm not so sure he won't be a good coach for the Devils (or whoever else).

I think his message is stale here and he's developed some bad habits but he's had success before. I could see him going to the Devils or somewhere and rah rah rah-ing his way into a few good seasons before following the same curve as here where he starts to suck again after that.

But honestly I don't care just get him gone please

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Not to be lost in the discussion about coaching issues should be the effort in continuing to replace the team's pro and amateur scouting personnel. Just miserable for years now. Constantly singling out and going after flawed or downright terrible players year after year; Reaves, Granlund, Petry, McGinn, Nieto, Harkins, Kapanen, Graves, Jarry, Broz, Poulin, etc.

New eyes, new direction, organization-wide imo. Scouting, development, coaching. Just nuke the whole thing.

I'm not so sure he won't be a good coach for the Devils (or whoever else).

I think his message is stale here and he's developed some bad habits but he's had success before. I could see him going to the Devils or somewhere and rah rah rah-ing his way into a few good seasons before following the same curve as here where he starts to suck again after that.

But honestly I don't care just get him gone please

I don't really care how anyone does after leaving, player or coach, if they're simply not doing their job here. Some guys go on to do well, some guys continue to suck shit. Has no real impact on this organization imo. I have no idea whether he'd take the Devils to the next step and help them climb into the upper echelon of the East or whether he'd be more of the same dogshit they've been dealing with in Ruff.

If Sully does well with a roster like the Devils have, whatever. He's stagnant and has no answers for how to get the most out of this team and the many roster incarnations he's had here. /shrug

People (not you, just in general) seem lost on this idea of "well, then who is gonna coach?" as if it f***ing matters. This team's been on a steep and steady decline for the better part of a decade. You fire and replace people who aren't doing their job well and I can't fathom how anyone can believe Sullivan has been doing his job well. Outside of Yohe, but that dude's taken licking the boot to full on deepthroating it, so who gives a slimy rat shit what Yohe thinks about *anything*.

 

[Pancakes]

People (not you, just in general) seem lost on this idea of "well, then who is gonna coach?" as if it f***ing matters.

That's really why I think the Pens are crazy to not try and replace Sullivan. I get being worried about replacing him with a worse coach and the Pens being even worse but the Pens are *already* not good enough to make the playoffs under Sullivan, so what difference does it make?

It's not like they're a playoff team and if they fire Sullivan maybe they won't be. They've missed two years in a row. Lost in the first round four years in a row prior to that.

Maybe they get worse if they fire Sullivan, but they're already missing the playoffs. And if the new coach makes them slightly better, then hey FSG gets playoff money and people get to watch the Pens play some meaningful hockey and everyone wins.

No brainer to do, but this org is dumb as shit since winning the cups.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

That's really why I think the Pens are crazy to not try and replace Sullivan. I get being worried about replacing him with a worse coach and the Pens being even worse but the Pens are *already* not good enough to make the playoffs under Sullivan, so what difference does it make?

It's not like they're a playoff team and if they fire Sullivan maybe they won't be. They've missed two years in a row. Lost in the first round four years in a row prior to that.

Maybe they get worse if they fire Sullivan, but they're already missing the playoffs. And if the new coach makes them slightly better, then hey FSG gets playoff money and people get to watch the Pens play some meaningful hockey and everyone wins.

No brainer to do, but this org is dumb as shit since winning the cups.

Right? We throw around the whole "how much worse could it get" thing pretty freely, but in this case; genuinely, how much worse can it get than not winning a playoff round since 2018 and now missing the playoffs twice in a row? Do people really buy into this organization's PR bullshit speak of "Well we're confident in this group and believe they can still compete for Cups"? That's insanity.

If you spectacularly bomb the next coaching hire and end up with a Mike Johnston, what exactly is the difference here? You've gone from being a complete afterthought relative to competing to... being a complete afterthought relative to competing. But at least you f***ing tried to change things, y'know?

This organization's so f***ing inept and dysfunctional it's maddening. So instead of being annoyed, which is entirely appropriate, I've chosen to be scathingly apathetic for about four years now. They're spineless, idiotic losers who, somehow, are also aggravatingly arrogant. Terrible combo.

 

[mephisto1812]

It would really be something if Cooper and Sullivan both parted ways and merely swapped teams. Or even just Sully to NJD and Cooper to the Penguins.


I don't think the contract is as big of an issue as people think.

Like say Matthews told the Leafs to FOAD and they mutually terminated the contract...you don't think another NHL team would offer Matthews the exact same contract?

If Sullivan terminates the deal (or Dubas does or it's mutual, whatever) then he absolutely finds a similar deal with a new club. 100%.

He would likely have a stack of offers the same day it was announced he was moving on.

Devils please take that bum off our hands. Getting rid of Sullivan would be the biggest/best move the Pens could make


I'd welcome Bylsma back. Literally down with anyone who isn't Sullivan

I'd want Dubas to coach the team himself before I'd want Bylsma back behind the bench.

 

[HandshakeLine]

When the tide first started to turn on Sullivan around here, someone posted that "Sullivan can only ever be wronged, he can never be wrong", and it's evergreen.

hi.

Right? We throw around the whole "how much worse could it get" thing pretty freely, but in this case; genuinely, how much worse can it get than not winning a playoff round since 2018 and now missing the playoffs twice in a row?

The worst case scenario is literally what we have been doing: missing the playoffs by one point so we are too high to get a really good 1st round pick (which we don't have anyway) which won't help us rebuild OR get into the playoffs.

 

[Andy99]

That seems more like a lawyer answer from Dubas than anything. New Jersey may have not asked permission to talk with Sullivan about a job, but that doesn't mean that Sullivan and Dubas have not had discussions about Sullivan's future with the Penguins.

That's not even me coping, it's just that the Dubas quote doesn't really seem to kill what is being suggested out there. No one was saying that New Jersey was asking for permission to talk with Sullivan, what was being discussed is that Sullivan is interested in coaching for New Jersey and the team and him may mutually agree to part ways.

There is no need for permission anyway because Sullivan is under contract…NJD can’t ask for permission lol, so Dubas’ comment is meaningless…as you said, it would have to be a mutual parting of the ways or a firing…

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

hi.


The worst case scenario is literally what we have been doing: missing the playoffs by one point so we are too high to get a really good 1st round pick (which we don't have anyway) which won't help us rebuild OR get into the playoffs.

Yeah. Either they find a coach to get like two more wins out of the team so everyone can cheer about the Pens being a 1st round sacrifice again or they completely crater and FSG/Dubas/DP are proven right that Sully actually was holding this team somewhat afloat and the result is the beginning of stockpiling top tier prospects and building for the next chapter.

Either way, better than this bullshit. Also, kinda figured it was out with the wrong:wronged thing, but didn't want to use this site's dogshit search function to sort it out.

 

[Andy99]

He would likely have a stack of offers the same day it was announced he was moving on.


I'd want Dubas to coach the team himself before I'd want Bylsma back behind the bench.

I posted stats of Coach A and Coach B earlier in this thread…Bylsma’s record is comparable to Sullivan’s and he had a better playoff record

Totally glad to come into this thread after the Weekes tweet and see nothing has happened Lol yet there is five pages of discussion

 

[SomeDude]

Maybe Dubas is clarifying no permission has been granted so we can slap NJ with a tampering charge and get awarded Hughes as compensation for having God’s gift to coaching poached away.

 

[SEALBound]

I'd want Dubas to coach the team himself before I'd want Bylsma back behind the bench.

I'd take Sid being a player-coach with no staff on the bench before allowing Bylsma back in the organization in any capacity.