Confirmed with Link: Official Expansion Draft Rules Released

[pitseleh]

I'm still waiting on that list of $2M UFA 20 goal scorers.

Aside from "20 goal scorer" being almost meaningless from a talent evaluation perspective, Cody Hodgson, Jiri Tlusty, and PA Parenteau are three UFAs signed last offseason that are "20 goal scorers".

I don't get why some are freaking out about the expansion draft. All of our guys that we want to protect will be protected.

Yeah, Vegas is going to really enjoy drafting Etem from us....

That (1) doesn't factor in UFAs or (2) the opportunity cost the Canucks have given up by trading for players like Gudbranson when they could have poached another player who another team can't protect.

...

Has anyone seen anything about how the D/F distinction is going to be enforced? Seems easy enough to me to just list a D as an F or vice versa for the purpose of protection.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Aside from "20 goal scorer" being almost meaningless from a talent evaluation perspective, Cody Hodgson, Jiri Tlusty, and PA Parenteau are three UFAs signed last offseason that are "20 goal scorers".



That (1) doesn't factor in UFAs or (2) the opportunity cost the Canucks have given up by trading for players like Gudbranson when they could have poached another player who another team can't protect.

...

Has anyone seen anything about how the D/F distinction is going to be enforced? Seems easy enough to me to just list a D as an F or vice versa for the purpose of protection.

That's a good point. I think it really gets tricky when you start looking at guys like Brent Burns.

 

[RandV]

If Benning is still running the team there's no way he exposes Sutter, but if there's someone new they may simply want to get out of that contract. A lot depends on how well Gaunce and Roding look this season as well.

Really the only guarantees for protection are Henrik, Daniel, and Horvat. Then we have 4 from a group of: Hansen, Baertschi, Sutter, Granlund, Etem, Rodin, and Gaunce, plus any UFA's Benning may sign. Hansen would be obvious to protect but maybe this time he actually gets traded at the deadline. Baertschi is another obvious choice right now but maybe doesn't progress at all this season, but on the other hand maybe Etem/Granlund/Rodin breaks out with 20 goals and looks like the better choice for protection.

Unlikely but there's always that unpredictable element in a season. I think the only thing you can say for sure is as of right now with Benning as our GM the protection list would look like:

Henrik
Daniel
Horvat
Sutter
Hansen
Baertschi
Granlund
-----
Edler
Tanev
Gudbranson
-----
Markstrom/Miller (whoever he extends)

 

[DL44]

They'll definitely need it.

A team full of 3rd and 4th liners.

If I were the Vegas GM...

I would scoop the best forward from every team that opts to protect 4+ dmen (8 skaters/1 goalie)...
Initial fan opinion there will be 3 or 4 teams that SHOULD do so... i.e. Nashville off the top of my head.. So that'll give me 2-3 legit top 6 players to start.

And if those types of teams DON'T opt to protect their 4th dman, I scoop myself a D or 2 that could be my #2/3 defender ... i.e. one of Elkholm or Ellis...

Then I draft about 3 of the best 'right-now" NHL caliber D available... like a couple Methot types. There will be ENOUGH to choose from that will be capable of eating 20 mins a night for them..

There would be a plethora of 3rd liners available obviously... so filling the lineup up front would be fairly easy... pick 6-8 "right-now" depth players...

3 goalies... One starter, one backup, and one vet for the A...

So from above, I would have : 8-11 forwards, 4-5 D, of my decent NHL 'right now' types to help me start off with a competitive base... and the 3 goalies..

The remaining 12-14 picks would be a mix of cherry picking young budding prospects - like Bowey from the caps.. or Shinkaruk types..

So depending on how the rest of their roster falls in place...
Everything will be different in one calender year from now, BUT - Vegas' current targets from the Canucks should be - dependent on need:
Etem - F depth with upside
Sbisa - if they need a 'right now' dman
Pedan - for D depth
Gaunce - waiver eligible prospect

I would also be one of the most aggressive GM's for whoever the big fish UFA is July 1st, 2017.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Who I would protect:

Sedin, Sedin, Horvat, Baertschi, whichever UFA winger we end up signing, Gaunce, Rodin
Edler, Tanev, Biega
Markstrom

Caveat: Ideally we'll have moved Gudbranson and Hansen in futures trades before the expansion draft happens. Also, if Rodin is an utter bust next year, replace him with Zalewski.

Who I think Jimbo will protect:
Sedin, Sedin, Horvat, Baertschi, Sutter, UFA winger, Granlund
Edler, Tanev, Gudbranson
Markstrom

 

[MS]

Has anyone seen anything about how the D/F distinction is going to be enforced? Seems easy enough to me to just list a D as an F or vice versa for the purpose of protection.

That's a good point. I think it really gets tricky when you start looking at guys like Brent Burns.

Burns is probably the only player it'll come up for, and he'll surely have to be listed as a defender given that he's a Norris Trophy finalist. I can't imagine the NHL would let something like that slide by.

Any other guy who plays both is the sort of fringe player who doesn't have a hope of being protected - like Yannick Weber here.

 

[RandV]

...

Has anyone seen anything about how the D/F distinction is going to be enforced? Seems easy enough to me to just list a D as an F or vice versa for the purpose of protection.

I don't think anyone is going to be able to pull a fast one on the league here. The only non-depth players that have been used as both F and D in recent years is Byfuglien and Burns. PP aside for Buff neither spent any time at forward for at least 1 full season. There's no point of trying this with a player that is exempt, so anyone else have already established themselves as a F/D or aren't worthwhile bothering with.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Burns is probably the only player it'll come up for, and he'll surely have to be listed as a defender given that he's a Norris Trophy finalist. I can't imagine the NHL would let something like that slide by.

Any other guy who plays both is the sort of fringe player who doesn't have a hope of being protected - like Yannick Weber here.

Yeah. The only other I could really think of being worthwhile was Byfuglien but he's played defense consistently the past few years so that wouldn't slide either.

 

[Samzilla]

Not only that, Sutter is trash because he was hurt last year, but he's fine with paying Burrows the same money to play here next year...

Well yeah, Burrows is gone after that. Sutter is here...forever.

 

[topheavyhookjaw]

Aside from "20 goal scorer" being almost meaningless from a talent evaluation perspective, Cody Hodgson, Jiri Tlusty, and PA Parenteau are three UFAs signed last offseason that are "20 goal scorers".



That (1) doesn't factor in UFAs or (2) the opportunity cost the Canucks have given up by trading for players like Gudbranson when they could have poached another player who another team can't protect.

...

Has anyone seen anything about how the D/F distinction is going to be enforced? Seems easy enough to me to just list a D as an F or vice versa for the purpose of protection.

Most are saying Burns/Byfuglien types, but are you really getting at there's no mechanism for the league to check where you really played or rules for determining it. So for instance, Vancouver needs to protect Tryamkin for argument's sake, and decides, let's just list him at F, and if asked say coaches want him to play F this year so we're counting him there. How does league enforce?

 

[Verviticus]

i would pay $10 to have sutter claimed by another team so uh, i probably wouldnt protect him

 

[y2kcanucks]

Most are saying Burns/Byfuglien types, but are you really getting at there's no mechanism for the league to check where you really played or rules for determining it. So for instance, Vancouver needs to protect Tryamkin for argument's sake, and decides, let's just list him at F, and if asked say coaches want him to play F this year so we're counting him there. How does league enforce?

I would LOL if Tampa starts playing Bishop on their 4th line just so they can protect him and Vasilevskiy.

 

[Jyrki21]

Yup, and if we're lucky they hire an old-school GM who takes Sbisa.

If we're really lucky, Las Vegas' GM will be Jim Benning!

 

[Mad Brills*]

Parenteau signed for 1.5 million and scored 20 last year

 

[The Drop]

i can't see a chance in hell that Granlund is protected.

Baerstchi prob will be though.

 

[Hammer79]

Lee Stempniak
Shawn Matthias
Brad Boyes
Mason Raymond
Olli Jokinen (after his 13-14 season)

And that's just naming a select few.

Yes, I should have qualified this more with players under 30 who came off a 20 goal season when they signed the contract. Of course you can find some 34 year old journeymen, that isn't the point. We are looking for comparables to Sutter to see if his contract is as bad as you claim it is.

Lee Stempniak hasn't come close to 20 since 2010-2011, and to go back that far you need to account for inflation. He had 16 two seasons ago but was 32, not 27.

Shawn Matthias has never hit 20 and had several seasons of single digits goals before hitting the teens.

Brad Boyes was 32 when he signed his deal.

Raymond might be seen as a comparable minus one year of inflation if he wasn't a LW'er. Besides he signed for $3.15M *3 after his 19 goal season.

Jokinen was 35 when that season ended.

 

[Jay Cee]

i can't see a chance in hell that Granlund is protected.

Baerstchi prob will be though.

Agreed, barring some solid turnaround.

Granlund as a target was always a low chance to stick with the NHL full time. He reminds me of the guy who bounces around 2-3 teams before we never hear about him again. Management really stuck their neck out in that trade and I think that will go down as a big fail. Even if, as might as well happen that shinky will not amount to much either.

I think shinky is a future Granlund, but that's just how I feel.

Also, what about Granny for Granlund I think it is super original

 

[Hammer79]

Aside from "20 goal scorer" being almost meaningless from a talent evaluation perspective, Cody Hodgson, Jiri Tlusty, and PA Parenteau are three UFAs signed last offseason that are "20 goal scorers".



That (1) doesn't factor in UFAs or (2) the opportunity cost the Canucks have given up by trading for players like Gudbranson when they could have poached another player who another team can't protect.

...

Has anyone seen anything about how the D/F distinction is going to be enforced? Seems easy enough to me to just list a D as an F or vice versa for the purpose of protection.

Yes, I should have put the qualifier in, not 20 goals at any time in their career, but 20 goals in the season before they sign as a UFA in their late 20's prime years, not mid 30's.

Hodgson wasn't coming off a 20 goal season when he signed with the Predators.

Tlusty, ditto, hadn't score 20 in a few seasons.

Parenteau actually did score 20 with the Leafs this past season, got $1.5M before the season, but was coming off an 8 goal season with the Canadiens when he put ink to paper. He was also 32 when he signed.

 

[imafan]

Well how about not protecting the Sedins? Any risk takers here?

Seeing as they will be 37 at the time of the draft and they are on a decline... you might not have to protect them. Large contract as well. Only one could be chosen as well.

I am guessing they both have no movement clauses... but if they didn't would you risk it?

 

[fancouver]

Yes, I should have put the qualifier in, not 20 goals at any time in their career, but 20 goals in the season before they sign as a UFA in their late 20's prime years, not mid 30's.

Hodgson wasn't coming off a 20 goal season when he signed with the Predators.

Tlusty, ditto, hadn't score 20 in a few seasons.

Parenteau actually did score 20 with the Leafs this past season, got $1.5M before the season, but was coming off an 8 goal season with the Canadiens when he put ink to paper. He was also 32 when he signed.

Actually I think it's more fair to see what contracts are handed out this year.

After all, Sutter's $4.3 kicks in this year.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

You know there's probably a way for this team to manage their roster so that they are only exposing cap anchors, and therefore are guaranteed to drop one. Let all veteran AHL contracts expire in 2017, and have a roster of, essentially, 10 solid d + f, 1 g, a bunch of youth (ie, not eligible), and nothing else but cap anchors.

For this to work, you can't even expose a single low-salary depth guy. Assuming the Canucks are protecting the Sedins, Horvat, Baertschi, whichever UFA winger they sign this summer, Edler, and Tanev

Up front, the Canucks would have to get rid of all but three of:
Hansen, Granlund, Etem, Gaunce, Zalewski, Grenier.

If you (for some reason) wanted to protect Sutter, too, you'd have to get rid of all but two of the forwards.

On D, the Canucks would have to get rid of all but one of:
Gudbranson, Biega, Larsen, Pedan

And then you keep Dorsett, Sbisa, and (maybe) Sutter exposed, and no one else.

I doubt our management team goes down this road, though.

 

[fancouver]

Well how about not protecting the Sedins? Any risk takers here?

Seeing as they will be 37 at the time of the draft and they are on a decline... you might not have to protect them. Large contract as well. Only one could be chosen as well.

I am guessing they both have no movement clauses... but if they didn't would you risk it?

They will for sure be taken by Vegas.

And I think that looks bad on the franchise. The Canucks, that is.

 

[Hammer79]

Well how about not protecting the Sedins? Any risk takers here?

Seeing as they will be 37 at the time of the draft and they are on a decline... you might not have to protect them. Large contract as well. Only one could be chosen as well.

I am guessing they both have no movement clauses... but if they didn't would you risk it?

Yeah I think that one of them would be immediately claimed. We can only lose one player. We'd likely be stuck with Daniel Sedin only and we know how he plays when Henrik isn't around to feed him...

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Please God take Sbisa and Dorsett

 

[RandV]

Yes, I should have qualified this more with players under 30 who came off a 20 goal season when they signed the contract. Of course you can find some 34 year old journeymen, that isn't the point. We are looking for comparables to Sutter to see if his contract is as bad as you claim it is.

Lee Stempniak hasn't come close to 20 since 2010-2011, and to go back that far you need to account for inflation. He had 16 two seasons ago but was 32, not 27.

Shawn Matthias has never hit 20 and had several seasons of single digits goals before hitting the teens.

Brad Boyes was 32 when he signed his deal.

Raymond might be seen as a comparable minus one year of inflation if he wasn't a LW'er. Besides he signed for $3.15M *3 after his 19 goal season.

Jokinen was 35 when that season ended.

To hit 20 goals you need to score a t a 0.24 GPG pace. Last season in the NHL 148 players hit this mark. Also a guy that usually scores 15 could have a few lucky bounces and hit 20 goals. If you're simply looking for someone that can score 20 goals for you, there are plenty of cheap options on the market that have a reasonable shot it it, usually reserved for basement teams who don't have anyone else to play there.

If you're talking about a guy that consistently scores 20 and can go higher then maybe that takes more money, but we're talking about Brandon Sutter here and he is not a consistent 20 goal scorer. He has two seasons with 21 goals, but also a season with only 13 and 14 goals. He's like the player I mentioned above, a 15 goal scorer who with a few bounces can hit 20 from time to time.

We already have a few guys like that on the team and with UFA rights we payed them $2.5 million a year.