(Official) Around the NHL Thread 9.0

[GAMO1992]

Something something Kane. Something something accuser. Something something.

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[Johnny Hoxville]

Plus Erik Johnson signed a big deal yesterday.

 

[GAMO1992]

Plus Erik Johnson signed a big deal yesterday.

You mean this news?

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Yep, I guess it's okay but I feel like that's a little steep if you're paying him solely on his abilities.

 

[GAMO1992]

Yep, I guess it's okay but I feel like that's a little steep if you're paying him solely on his abilities.

Not all GM's are Brad Trewizards.

 

[Lunatik]

Yep, I guess it's okay but I feel like that's a little steep if you're paying him solely on his abilities.

compared to the Klefbom deal this is a ****ing steal for the Avs

 

[Bouma Fett*]

It's a fantastic deal. He's what's keeping their backend stable and that runs through his prime. Also could have gone UFA so there's that too

 

[GAMO1992]

It's a fantastic deal. He's what's keeping their backend stable and that runs through his prime. Also could have gone UFA so there's that too

this pretty much sums up it all. He IS their back-end. It goes through EJ 1st. Very solid, solid deal.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Yep, I guess it's okay but I feel like that's a little steep if you're paying him solely on his abilities.

Not at all. He's a top 15 Defenseman in the NHL. He'd be a number one on at least 16 teams.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Not at all. He's a top 15 Defenseman in the NHL. He'd be a number one on at least 16 teams.

I think his importance to the Avs is unquestioned, but I think saying he's a top 15 dman may be a bit of a stretch. I've never really been that sold on his defensive ability, I also don't view him as an elite offensive contributor. I think he's a good skater, who can move the puck out of his zone, can pass relatively well and can contribute some offence. I'd take Gio, Hamilton and Brodie over him all day though. Erik Johnson is not a player I'm scared to face.

I think he may have been rushed to early, injuries didn't help and may still be affecting how good he could have been. Still a very good dman, but I would in no way classify him as being elite at anything. In saying that, the Avs needed to lock him up so good on them for that.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I think you're underrating just how strongly Johnson's played in the last two years. I'm not saying he was a top 15 D three years ago, but neither was Giordano.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I think you're underrating just how strongly Johnson's played in the last two years. I'm not saying he was a top 15 D three years ago, but neither was Giordano.

I don't think so. He's still not a great shut down dman, he's also not a top offensive dman. I mean he's better defensively than Wideman for example, but not better offensively. He's not top 15 on either side of the puck, so I think calling him a top dman in the NHL is being generous. I know it sounds like I'm knocking him, but that term gets thrown around so much on HF and I don't see it in Johnson's game at all.

I think he has his draft status going for him. He was a disappointment really up until 2 seasons ago, and he absolutely has improved, but if you really watch him I just don't see him as top 15 dman.

Off the top of my head I'd take the following over Johnson:

Gio
Hamilton
Brodie
Doughty
Pietrangelo
Weber
Josi
Subban
Karlsson
Hedman
OEL
Carlson
Faulk
Burns
Keith
McDonagh
Suter
Hamonic
Lindholm
Letang

That's 20 guys right there. I know people love to hate on Letang, but he really was tremendous last season. I like Johnson, he's a definitely a very good dman, the Avs had to sign, but I don't view him as being at the top of position in the NHL. He's top 30 for sure though.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

I am going to agree with the majority. Great deal for Johnson. Good dman for them.


Johnson is a player who does stuff right. Not flashy or a standout but does everything right and is influential enough that he is Colorado Defense.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I am going to agree with the majority. Great deal for Johnson. Good dman for them.


Johnson is a player who does stuff right. Not flashy or a standout but does everything right and is influential enough that he is Colorado Defense.

I'll leave it saying this, I wouldn't pay him more than Hamilton because he's not better than him. But admittedly the Avs had to get him locked up, so good for them.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Off the top of my head I'd take the following over Johnson:

(A)
Keith
Subban
Gio
Doughty
Hedman
Letang
Karlsson
Weber
Pietrangelo
OEL
Brodie
Josi
McDonagh

(B)
Carlson
Faulk
Suter
Hamilton


(C)
Lindholm
Hamonic
Burns

I think Group A is better than Johnson (but some of the guys near the bottom aren't that much better if at all), Group B really is in the same class right now(but I might be letting homer bias seep into my judgement of Hamilton), and group C is not as good as Johnson right now. Just My Opinion. Unless you forgot a guy from your list who would be on mine, that would put him roughly 14 to 18 on my list. Brodie/Josi + Weber/Gio play on only two teams so that's 13 defensemen on 11 teams. In other words, Johnson would have a strong argument for #1D on 19 teams based on my opinion of your list.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

I'll leave it saying this, I wouldn't pay him more than Hamilton because he's not better than him.

I don't know. That is bias right there. EJ is there number 1 dman and is only costing them 6 per for the next 7 years. Hamilton is our number 2/3 making 250k less. I'm sure Johnson would be better if he actually had competent dmen.

I'm sure if Johsnon had d partners like Calgary he would be doing a lot better.

 

[GAMO1992]

I'll leave it saying this, I wouldn't pay him more than Hamilton because he's not better than him.

At this point, no Hamilton isn't better than EJ. Hamilton can become much better but isn't there yet. Whereas EJ is a consistent and steady D-man. I honestly think if the Avs weren't as weak on D, and he had a partner like Giordano has Brodie, he'd easily be top 15.

And Hamonic, Josi, Letang, and Burns I would not take before EJ.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

At this point, no Hamilton isn't better than EJ. Hamilton can become much better but isn't there yet. Whereas EJ is a consistent and steady D-man. I honestly think if the Avs weren't as weak on D, and he had a partner like Giordano has Brodie, he'd easily be top 15.

And Hamonic, Josi, Letang, and Burns I would not take before EJ.

I agree with everything, but disagree on Josi.

 

[GAMO1992]

I agree with everything, but disagree on Josi.

Eh, I am just not that high on Josi yet. thats all.
but i agree with everything you said right above it.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I think Group A is better than Johnson, Group B really is in the same class right now, and group C is not as good as Johnson right now. Just My Opinion. Unless you forgot a guy from your list who would be on mine, that would put him roughly 14 to 18 on my list. Brodie/Josi + Weber/Gio play on only two teams so that's 13 defensemen on 11 teams. In other words, Johnson would have a strong argument for #1D on 19 teams based on my opinion of your list.

Well there's Seth Jones and Larsson who's really poised for a massive break out, but they aren't there yet but will probably pass him very soon.

Not to get to off topic, but Faulk is the most underrated player in the NHL. He's arguably a top 5 dman right now, just a tremendous player/athlete. I also really like Lindholm and Hamonic a lot, really underrated guys, and both are studs for their team. Lastly I think Carlsson is close to being an elite dman, he does everything you could want out of a dman.

Really, I think Johnson is maybe 500k overpaid, it's not a horrible deal by any means.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Really, I think Johnson is maybe 500k overpaid, it's not a horrible deal by any means.

Saying he is overpaid is really underrating him

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Really, I think Johnson is maybe 500k overpaid, it's not a horrible deal by any means.

I think he's about 500k underpaid considering that deal ends at age 34.

I disagree with some of your assessments, but one guy I just realized you forgot is John Klingberg. That is one more player I would take over Erik Johnson.

So basically EJ is exactly #15 on my list.

Not saying some of those young guys can't get better but let's see them prove it first.

I think EJ gets a bad rap because he was a #1 OA pick. It's always associated with him and people just see that he's no Chris Pronger and automatically write him off as a bust. In reality he was just a player from a terrible defensemen draft class who took a very typical slow, steady curve. The player right now, most teams would love to have him on that contract. We would too, if our top 3D weren't the best in the NHL.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I don't know. That is bias right there. EJ is there number 1 dman and is only costing them 6 per for the next 7 years. Hamilton is our number 2/3 making 250k less. I'm sure Johnson would be better if he actually had competent dmen.

I'm sure if Johsnon had d partners like Calgary he would be doing a lot better.

I'm not biased on it, though. Hamilton has already surpassed Johnson's career high in points, with Chara being hurt a good chunk of last year. Their size is almost equal, but Dougie is a better skater, passer, shots are close, and defensive ability is about the same but I think Hamilton will surpass him sooner then later there to.

Hamilton hasn't had any defensive partners in Calgary yet, either. People could very well be calling him elite by years end.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I think he's about 500k underpaid considering that deal ends at age 34.

I disagree with some of your assessments, but one guy I just realized you forgot is John Klingberg. That is one more player I would take over Erik Johnson.

So basically EJ is exactly #15 on my list.

Not saying some of those young guys can't get better but let's see them prove it first.

I think EJ gets a bad rap because he was a #1 OA pick. It's always associated with him and people just see that he's no Chris Pronger and automatically write him off as a bust. In reality he was just a player from a terrible defensemen draft class who took a very typical slow, steady curve. The player right now, most teams would love to have him on that contract. We would too, if our top 3D weren't the best in the NHL.

Those are all fair points. I standby my rankings though, he's just not someone I'm scared to face but I agree in that I'd love to have him.

I agree on Klingberg to, and honestly I might take Myers over him. But they're very close.

All in all, it's just my opinion. It's neither right or wrong, it's just the fun of debate.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Those are all fair points. I standby my rankings though, he's just not someone I'm scared to face but I agree in that I'd love to have him.

You have to consider who he's been paired with his whole career. His most common D partners have been

1) HEJDA, JAN
2) BREWER, ERIC
3) WILSON, RYAN
4) HUNWICK, MATT
5) COLAIACOVO, CARLO
6) O_BRIEN, SHANE
7) MCKEE, JAY
8) SYDOR, DARRYL
9) QUINCEY, KYLE
10) BARRIE, TYSON

In that order by time on ice @ 5 on 5.

Maybe you'd be afraid to face him if his partner was a guy like Muzzin, Leddy or Hjalmarsson instead.