[Official] Adirondack Flames Thread (Also some ECHL talk)

[Taranis]

Another bad defeat

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

Baertschi a -2 tonight.

 

[Ashasx]

Baertschi a -2 tonight.

A really telling stat, that.

Pretty sure one of them was the EN. Also led the team in shots.

But we gotta find somebody to blame.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

A really telling stat, that.

Pretty sure one of them was the EN. Also led the team in shots.

But we gotta find somebody to blame.

I agree with you that +/- isn't the best stat to use, but Baertschi is a -8 in 7 games which is pretty horrendous; he also has the worst +/- for the whole team, so something isn't right there.

Also, if we're going to discuss this, I'd like for you to not give me an attitude.

 

[Ashasx]

Very sorry sire, but your misunderstanding of a stat to indicate whether somebody is playing poorly is not a quality that appeals to me. Humblest apologies if you took it personally.

He is a minus player on a team of minuses.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

Very sorry sire, but your misunderstanding of a stat to indicate whether somebody is playing poorly is not a quality that appeals to me. Humblest apologies if you took it personally.

He is a minus player on a team of minuses.

And yet you're using shots as example; most of his shots could have been from the perimeter, which also may not be a quality that appeals.

And no, I didn't take it personally, but there's no need for it.

 

[Ashasx]

And yet you're using shots as example; most of his shots could have been from the perimeter, which also may not be a quality that appeals.

You've posted numerous times after games now how you are disappointed with Baertschi yet never having actually watched the games.

I never indicated his play was strong, just that there are numbers that support the opposite of your claim.

Yes?

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

You've posted numerous times after games now how you are disappointed with Baertschi yet never having actually watched the games.

I never indicated his play was strong, just that there are numbers that support the opposite of your claim.

Yes?

I've only posted once this season on Baertschi:

I am losing faith in Baertschi, he hasn't had a point yet and is already in the -... Of course, +/- isn't the best stat to use as an indicator, but still. Then again, I am just stat watching so maybe he is playing better.

In that post, I said +/- isn't the best stat to use, so no, I don't have a misunderstanding on the stat.

Look, the fact that Baertschi doesn't have any points and he has the team worse of -8 doesn't speak well on his part. For the fan that cannot watch the games, what do you think that stat line shows? While it is a bit of a different circumstance, do you disregard Ovechkin's horrible +/- last season since it's +/- or would you say it has a little correlation on his play?

You haven't even said that you've watched the games, so for all we know Baertschi might be playing bad (because all we can do is look at stats and judge ourselves).

 

[Ashasx]

I've posted only once this season on Baertschi:



In that post, I too said +/- isn't the best stat to use, so no, I don't have a misunderstanding on the stat.

Look, the fact that Baertschi doesn't have any points and he has the team worse of -8 doesn't speak well on his part. For the fan that cannot watch the games, what do you think that stat line shows?

While it is a bit of a different circumstance, do you disregard Ovechkin's horrible +/- last season since it's +/- or would you say it has a little correlation on his play?

+/- is never a simple stat to evaluate to determine the quality of play.

In cases like Ovechkin where his +/- is a standard deviation or two beyond the team average, it's easier to say that his defensive play has been poor.

In Baertschi's case, there are players on the team who have comparable numbers. Kulak and Wotherspoon are both -6 yet both have been by far the best pairing on the team. It becomes even more meaningless when you consider EN goals such as tonight.

I've said it before, there's nothing wrong the Baertschi's defensive game right now, and if anything, he's focused too much on his own zone and not the style that made him successful in the first place. From the 3 games I've watched, he's consistently been in first on the backcheck, he's involving himself in the corner, and he's creating some of the best chances to score in each. That doesn't mean his performance or the team as a whole hasn't been poor, but let's at least back it up with meaningful numbers.

New coach, new city, new system, new management. The only player on the team with satisfactory offensive output right now is Granlund. Do we expect that to remain constant?

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

+/- is never a simple stat to evaluate to determine the quality of play.

In cases like Ovechkin where his +/- is a standard deviation or two beyond the team average, it's easier to say that his defensive play has been poor.

In Baertschi's case, there are players on the team who have comparable numbers. Kulak and Wotherspoon are both -6 yet both have been by far the best pairing on the team. It becomes even more meaningless when you consider EN goals such as tonight.

I've said it before, there's nothing wrong the Baertschi's defensive game right now, and if anything, he's focused too much on his own zone and not the style that made him successful in the first place. From the 3 games I've watched, he's consistently been in first on the backcheck, he's involving himself in the corner, and he's creating some of the best chances to score in each.

If you included that last part in your first post, I wouldn't have argued.

So then, is Baertschi playing well offensively and getting snakebitten, or...?

 

[Ashasx]

If you included that last part in your first post, I wouldn't have argued.

So then, is Baertschi playing well offensively and getting snakebitten, or...?

All a matter of opinion, but he should probably have 4 or so points right now.

He needs to play better, because even with better luck it's not good enough. With that said, everyone not named Granlund has played poorly. Whether that is because of the new system, coach, what have you, I cannot say for certain. But the combined success of the team would seem to indicate that. Nevertheless, the team can't make excuses.

Essentially: not good enough, but not time to give up. Believe me when I say there would be few more disappointed than me, but I cannot believe that the team's current 1.71 goals per game will continue. Something will give soon.

 

[Gritty]

Baertschi with his first assist!

 

[Gritty]

Ferland with 3G - 4A and +5 in 8 games! Great start for the kid!

(still 1 period left in this game)

 

[Lunatik]

We won! And scored quite a bit.

7-3 final.

Scoring
1. ADK Hathaway, (1) (Culkin, Baertschi), 18:20 (PP)
2. RCH Larsson, (3) (Schaller, Adam), 4:14
2. ADK Tousignant, (1) (Van Brabant), 4:51
2. ADK Van Brabant, (1) (Ferland), 8:12
2. ADK Wotherspoon, (1) (Reinhart, Ramage), 10:49 (PP)
2. ADK Ferland, (3) (Culkin, Wotherspoon), 11:30
2. RCH Ruhwedel, (2) (Larsson, Adam), 12:18 (PP)
3. ADK Agostino, (2) (Arnold, Ferland), 3:41
3. ADK Culkin, (1) , 7:22 (PP)
3. RCH Dalpe, (2) (Schaller, Larsson), 8:16

 

[Anglesmith]

We won! And scored quite a bit.

7-3 final.

Scoring
1. ADK Hathaway, (1) (Culkin, Baertschi), 18:20 (PP)
2. RCH Larsson, (3) (Schaller, Adam), 4:14
2. ADK Tousignant, (1) (Van Brabant), 4:51
2. ADK Van Brabant, (1) (Ferland), 8:12
2. ADK Wotherspoon, (1) (Reinhart, Ramage), 10:49 (PP)
2. ADK Ferland, (3) (Culkin, Wotherspoon), 11:30
2. RCH Ruhwedel, (2) (Larsson, Adam), 12:18 (PP)
3. ADK Agostino, (2) (Arnold, Ferland), 3:41
3. ADK Culkin, (1) , 7:22 (PP)
3. RCH Dalpe, (2) (Schaller, Larsson), 8:16

Ah good. So they do remember how to play hockey.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Baertschi finally breaks the goose egg. Ferland is the man.

 

[Lunatik]

Baertschi finally breaks the goose egg. Ferland is the man.

Reinhart, Sven, Arnold and BVB all broke their goose eggs today

 

[Gritty]

Baertschi finally breaks the goose egg. Ferland is the man.

I'm basing this completely on statistics, as i've only caught one game, but based on that little evidence you'd have to believe he would be the next call up.

Solid training camp followed up by what looks to be good play!

 

[Wheels of Poirier]

All a matter of opinion, but he should probably have 4 or so points right now.

He needs to play better, because even with better luck it's not good enough. With that said, everyone not named Granlund has played poorly. Whether that is because of the new system, coach, what have you, I cannot say for certain. But the combined success of the team would seem to indicate that. Nevertheless, the team can't make excuses.

Essentially: not good enough, but not time to give up. Believe me when I say there would be few more disappointed than me, but I cannot believe that the team's current 1.71 goals per game will continue. Something will give soon.

This dude called it. I'm very surprised that Granlund's name is nowhere to be found in that box score.. no Stevenson, either. On another note, Van Brabant with a goal and an assist.. very nice.

 

[Lunatik]

This dude called it. I'm very surprised that Granlund's name is nowhere to be found in that box score.. no Stevenson, either. On another note, Van Brabant with a goal and an assist.. very nice.

Don't give too much credit. He now has 1 point in 8 games and his single point was a secondary assist on a powerplay goal in a game in which the team scored 7. Let's wait to see if this leads to something more before declaring that something has given.

 

[Wheels of Poirier]

Don't give too much credit. He now has 1 point in 8 games and his single point was a secondary assist on a powerplay goal in a game in which the team scored 7. Let's wait to see if this leads to something more before declaring that something has given.

I thought he meant something would give in terms of the teams offence waking up, not necessarily just Baertschi's.

 

[Lunatik]

I thought he meant something would give in terms of the teams offence waking up, not necessarily just Baertschi's.

He was talking about Baertschi I'm pretty sure. But even if he meant the offense in general I'd wait more than 1 game before saying it woke up. At this point for all we know this is no more than a blip on the radar.

 

[Wheels of Poirier]

He was talking about Baertschi I'm pretty sure. But even if he meant the offense in general I'd wait more than 1 game before saying it woke up. At this point for all we know this is no more than a blip on the radar.

That's very true. He said something would give soon, and scoring 7 goals in the very next game is definitely a step in the right direction towards improving that 1.7 goals scored per game avg. but you are absolutely right.. for all anyone knows, they get shut out in three of their next five lol

 

[Lunatik]

That's very true. He said something would give soon, and scoring 7 goals in the very next game is definitely a step in the right direction towards improving that 1.7 goals scored per game avg. but you are absolutely right.. for all anyone knows, they get shut out in three of their next five lol

Yep. I want to see a set of 6 or 7 games with at least 2 goals per game where the majority are 3+ goals per game before I accept they are breaking out offensively. They had back to back 3 & 4 goal games on the 17th & 18th against the Phantoms, then they scored 1 goal total over the next 2 games.

It is also quite concerning to me that the ADK Flames have scored 9 of their 19 goals on the powerplay. Having 10 even strength goals over 8 games is absolutely vile and so far from acceptable I can't even put it into words.

So far on the season as a team I see only 2 positives.

1) They are averaging almost 33 shots per game
2) They sit 9th in PP%

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Yep. I want to see a set of 6 or 7 games with at least 2 goals per game where the majority are 3+ goals per game before I accept they are breaking out offensively. They had back to back 3 & 4 goal games on the 17th & 18th against the Phantoms, then they scored 1 goal total over the next 2 games.

It is also quite concerning to me that the ADK Flames have scored 9 of their 19 goals on the powerplay. Having 10 even strength goals over 8 games is absolutely vile and so far from acceptable I can't even put it into words.

So far on the season as a team I see only 2 positives.

1) They are averaging almost 33 shots per game
2) They sit 9th in PP%

#1 is quite positive-sounding, indeed. Unless they're really so bad that they can't get any shots from scoring areas, it means it's likely that a decent chunk of their lack of success can be attributed to bad luck.