Observations XX

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Armourboy

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Jan 20, 2014
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I think all of those D are probably looking for multi year deals. Poile right now only wants them for one with Fabbro as a possible addition next year. Those guys are looking more for job security rather than money, so I think you would be surprised how many of those guys actually are holding out atm.
 
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Porter Stoutheart

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I think all of those D are probably looking for multi year deals. Poile right now only wants them for one with Fabbro as a possible addition next year. Those guys are looking more for job security rather than money, so I think you would be surprised how many of those guys actually are holding out atm.
At some point they'll have to give up on that... hopefully Poile is looking at them when the time comes. And hopefully the potential of a Cup run is also at least somewhat attractive to the more veteran types remaining.
 

Armourboy

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At some point they'll have to give up on that... hopefully Poile is looking at them when the time comes. And hopefully the potential of a Cup run is also at least somewhat attractive to the more veteran types remaining.
Yup but that point isnt right now
 

Enoch

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I think we're going to miss Emelin more than we think.

We need a #5, but Emelin was not good. He was not good at really anything. Penalties, poor offense/transition, poor defense, didn't really move guys. I was not impressed at all. Maybe he is less bad than our 5-7 guys, but surely we can do better than him?

Then again, we turn our number 5 defenseman into the whipping boy around here annually lol
 

Porter Stoutheart

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I think we're going to miss Emelin more than we think.
Yep. The model of running 4 guys 25 mins a night each in all situations, all season long, and then seeking 10 mins a night of matchups hockey for a usually-overmatched bottom pair is just not a good one.

Sure, you do that if you HAVE TO. Like if we could only afford the paltry cap hits that Irwin and Weber take on the 3rd pair because we were just too tight on the cap.

But if somebody in your top-4 gets hurt, it all falls apart.

Or... you get to April and you have a pair of undersized guys like Josi and Ellis who might be worn down.

I am just going to have to hold out hope that Poile is still planning an upgrade here, just that he's being cagey and waiting to get somebody on the Hartnell type of leftovers deal, waiting waiting waiting until somebody takes that 1-year contract.

But there aren't THAT many guys left who might actually be upgrades. If 1 year was that important to me, given the cap space we're sitting on, I'd rather pay 1x$3M than 2x$1.5M if that's the holdup. Hamhuis, Enstrom, maybe Orpik or Emelin himself, maybe Sbisa... I'm not sure I'd count others as reliable upgrades... Jerabek or Folin might be interesting, but no guarantees they're better than Irwin or Weber. The list is thin, and presumably will only get thinner as time drags on.
 

INDhockeyfan

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Preds fans are complaining about their 3rd pairing D men when other teams just want a decent top 4. It is true of all teams that if injuries happen to top guys you are going to be in trouble. Poile is waiting to see what happens with Ellis before worrying about that bottom pair. If it looks like an extension isn't happening and you need to trade him then you need to get another top 4 D man which are harder to find then a 3rd pairing guy.
 

Porter Stoutheart

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Preds fans are complaining about their 3rd pairing D men when other teams just want a decent top 4. It is true of all teams that if injuries happen to top guys you are going to be in trouble. Poile is waiting to see what happens with Ellis before worrying about that bottom pair. If it looks like an extension isn't happening and you need to trade him then you need to get another top 4 D man which are harder to find then a 3rd pairing guy.
I don't buy this perspective. Last year should have been a learning experience. Preds wanted a Cup. Ellis was hurt to start the season. They got another D who helped in the meantime in the regular season - but had to give up a 3rd rounder to do it. Then they were all healthy in the playoffs. But Josi and Ellis were worn out and the 3rd pair was still overmatched. How do you go through that and think "meh, the current 3rd pair and utilization approach is just fine"?

There is no connection to Ellis. The Preds are signing him, or they aren't, they will never NEED to trade him. Not in a season when they want to win a Stanley Cup. He's locked in for the Cup run either way. Right now we're only talking about upgrades on the 3rd pair/injury insurance.

And the whole "injuries can mess up any team" argument is a red herring. Yes they can. That's PRECISELY why when you have $7M+ in unused cap space, Anthony Bitetto on your opening night roster, and you're hoping to win a Stanley Cup... you might want to think about making your team even better and doing what you can to insure against those injuries. You can't prevent them. They would still cause headaches. But the Preds have the room to buy at least some mitigating insurance, not every team does, and the stakes are more realistically set at the Stanley Cup level for the Preds this year than they are for many other teams.

The only reasons you wouldn't sign a defenseman in this situation are:
1) You don't have the real money - never mind the cap, there is an internal budget limit below the cap and ownership won't let you buy insurance.
2) Your hockey ops department honestly does not believe that the options available are any better than Irwin/Weber/Bitetto or Carrier as first callup in the even of injury. They like those guys, or they don't like Hamhuis and Enstrom or whoever else is out there, and consequently from a purely hockey argument there is no upgrade value whatsoever in making an addition.
3) Nobody wants to sign here. For whatever reasons, try as you might, you can't get anybody to sign. They want stupid money/term (like, REALLY stupid relative to the market, given the cap space we have at our disposal) or think the air stinks in Nashville, or whatever.

Of these, 1) would be disappointing - Preds should be doing pretty well lately, but businesses do like to make money or recoup losses when they can. 2)... well, I only have my own eyeball test on the incumbents and haven't scrutinized Hamhuis/Enstrom/Sbisa/whoever lately. Maybe I'm wrong. Emelin was clearly better than our incumbents to me, and they let him walk and nobody else wants him either. 3) I don't believe it - maybe for the higher echelon multi-year guys who are already gone elsewhere, they didn't want to be on a 3rd pairing. But now? The few remaining guys should be getting desperate and the Preds are a cozier contending landing spot than most places would be.
:soap:
 

token grinder

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I think Poile looks at the West and can afford to wait. Sure, teams have gotten better, but have they gotten better to the point of passing them in the standings? I don't know.

You can argue the Jets will not be as good (they are still good though) without stastny and Enstrom. Trouba seeking the money he is screams that they will trade him. The Blues? better, yes. But I don't know how much an upgrade ROR is over Stastny in terms of upward movement in the standings, and the guy who kept them afloat last year-(I can't believe I am typing this) Carter Hutton is gone. Dallas? maybe if they land Karlsson. Colorado. Better, but I think they will not catch the Preds (yet). Give it another year. Chicago? Maybe rest will do them good. But their core is another year older after they looked old and slow.

So I can't blame Poile a bit for wanting to see how the division starts to shake out and add where he needs to. I am sure he wants to see what Hartman brings after a camp. You generally don't send a 1st round pick for a guy you think is a 7 min a night player on your 4th line. He should be a massive upgrade over Hartnell over the course of the season. And then there is Tolvanen. Is he ready? Can he take Smith's spot? Is he a 3rd liner with a Jarnkrok and Hartman?
 

Scoresberg

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Rather just acquire some depth now for free than during the season while giving up a ton of assets like last year.
 

PredsV82

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Rather just acquire some depth now for free than during the season while giving up a ton of assets like last year.

The "free" depth available now is Hartnell-esque. Any player we add in the season at the cost of assets will in turn be an asset, like Turris.

I'd be fine trying to wring one more year out of Hamhuis if hed come cheap, but otherwise we have plenty of horses as we are and we should be the odds on favorite in the west at the start of the season.
 

glenngineer

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Being bored while I'm smoking some ribs, I came across a thread about duos that excite me which got me thinking, if all things stay the same with this team moving in to camp, who would are top 9 AND which line combos would you like to se moving forward? Reason this intrigues me is I think we need some improvement from the Turris line come the playoffs and while they are pretty good during the regular season, was the playoffs a bad few weeks or is that the way they'll play moving forward in the playoffs? Also, make two sets of our top 9, one with and without Tolvanen.

Arvidsson-Johansen-Tolvanen
Fiala-Turris-Forsberg
Smith-Bonino-Hartman

OR

Arvidson-Johansen-Smith
Fiala-Turris-Hartman
Forsberg-Bonino-Jarnkrok

Not sure I like any of these to be honest but I had to start somewhere. Honestly, I'd love to see what Fiala and Forsberg could do as a combo.
 

Porter Stoutheart

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I am very satisfied with what I've seen of JoFA... and very unsatisfied with my last view of the 2nd line. I don't think I can propose how to fix things at this time. Maybe the lines we finished with just magically start working again next season.

If not I would probably want to play around with sliding Jarnkrok or Tolvanen up and down the 2nd/3rd lines before I started messing with JoFA. Break up JoFA only as a last resort. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

But we aren't going to go anywhere in the playoffs without having a 1-2 punch contributing, so they'll have to figure it out once the season gets underway, the sooner the better.
 

NoNecksCurse

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ive said it numerous times before and even caught heat for it at times when they weren't producing like we have grown expected but any line combos breaking up JOFA is a mistake. they were as solid as you can expect for us and puck possession monsters consistently and were damn good in the playoffs. play with the turris line and bonino line but leave JOFA alone.
 

Armourboy

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Tend to agree, you pretty much gotta leave JOFA alone unless it just isn't there this year for whatever reason. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th you have some options with moving guys around, Hartman, Tolvanen, Smith, Fiala, etc.

My bet is Lavi tries something new here and there though.
 

Porter Stoutheart

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Since this is an "observations" thread... I hereby observe that it seems like there are hordes of Leafs fans around here who now view the rest of the NHL as their own personal supermarket. Never mind the objectives of any other team in the league. The rest of us are just here to help them finish building their long-awaited dynasty. :eyeroll:
 
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PredsV82

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Yeah,many Leafs fans were insufferable enough before Tavares... now... :facepalm:
 

glenngineer

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Winning in the regular season and winning in the playoffs are two different things. While JOFA is great, is it better to break them up for better team success? While they worked together well in the regular season, as did other lines, other lines did not produce in the playoffs. The thought of moving some guys around is to give better balance in the top 9. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

Turris's line isn't going to get any bigger or harder to play against. They are what they are and while that's ok in the regular season, it doesn't show results in the playoffs. Part of the reason Jarnkrok usually disappears and guys like Watson and Sissons do more damage.
 

BigFatCat999

First Fubu and now Pred303. !@#$! you cancer
Apr 23, 2007
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Since this is an "observations" thread... I hereby observe that it seems like there are hordes of Leafs fans around here who now view the rest of the NHL as their own personal supermarket. Never mind the objectives of any other team in the league. The rest of us are just here to help them finish building their long-awaited contending team. :eyeroll:

I agree!
 

Armourboy

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Jan 20, 2014
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Shelbyville, TN
Since this is an "observations" thread... I hereby observe that it seems like there are hordes of Leafs fans around here who now view the rest of the NHL as their own personal supermarket. Never mind the objectives of any other team in the league. The rest of us are just here to help them finish building their long-awaited dynasty. :eyeroll:
Preach it! Not only that whatever players they do have are the best in the league and the guy they want really isnt that good, but they want him anyway. :laugh:
 

Porter Stoutheart

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Preach it! Not only that whatever players they do have are the best in the league and the guy they want really isnt that good, but they want him anyway. :laugh:
Must. resist. temptation. to. reply... to any Preds related trade proposals on the main board. There's really no point. Just gotta let the echo chamber echo, the sooner such things drop off the front page the better, basically... :help:
 
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Armourboy

Hey! You suck!
Jan 20, 2014
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Shelbyville, TN
Must. resist. temptation. to. reply... to any Preds related trade proposals on the main board. There's really no point. Just gotta let the echo chamber echo, the sooner such things drop off the front page the better, basically... :help:
I've learned to try and stay out of anything involving Toronto. They have way too many fans that think their unproven prospects are way more valuable than your proven anything and it's just not worth it.
 
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