News Article: Nylander Discussion

[Kubus]

Scouting departments get things wrong all the time. Hence why this forum is littered with threads whinging about the Leafs' drafting foibles. A history of the NHL draft, including the 1st Round, is a history of failure more than of success. The pre-draft book on Nylander was that he had perhaps the best skill in the draft BUT:

1. He is a selfish Chicken Swede.

2. He is only 5'9".

It's quite possible that the teams who picked before the Leafs didn't take the time to verify whether or not these ideas were true. I've yet to see much evidence of either since he was drafted.

Any chance you can point to those said scouting reports, and I mean professional scouting reports not some blogs online?

 

[Joey Hoser]

All the comments about him being a diva, drama queen or entitled due to his father seem completely baseless at this point. Never heard any actual examples of behavior like that in the first place, and 9 months later I still have no idea where those ideas were coming from.

 

[Trainspotter]

Any chance you can point to those said scouting reports, and I mean professional scouting reports not some blogs online?

You're asking if I have access to teams' proprietary materials?

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

All the comments about him being a diva, drama queen or entitled due to his father seem completely baseless at this point. Never heard any actual examples of behavior like that in the first place, and 9 months later I still have no idea where those ideas were coming from.

I wonder how those rumours started?

 

[Kubus]

Wow, some people here a really...just wow.

First thing first, when did hitting become defense? I see people complaining about him not hitting, I'm pretty sure he is not out there for that, he is there to put up points. I get that maybe some could complain about his defensive game, but hitting does not equal defense.

As for his defensive game the guy gets himself in the lanes and has a really great ability to read the play, and steal the puck.

To be honest he is coming along much better than I expected as a 8th overall pick. Some people really need to tamper their expectations for a 8th overall pick. If we get a legit top 6 forward out of him we should be very happy. If he starts to produce at the rate of a Kessel or Kane we should be thrilled we got a player like that so late in the draft. Some people really need to look at players drafted between 6 through 10 over the last decade or so.

 

[ACC1224]

All the comments about him being a diva, drama queen or entitled due to his father seem completely baseless at this point. Never heard any actual examples of behavior like that in the first place, and 9 months later I still have no idea where those ideas were coming from.

He's pretty.

 

[Kubus]

You're asking if I have access to teams' proprietary materials?

Well if you are going to talk about how scouts viewed him, I was hoping you had some evidence and didn't just pull it out of your....

I'm interested what scouting report had him pegged as, and I quote, "a selfish Chicken Swede."

Or were we just making things up? Posting opinions as "facts"?

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I wonder how high Leafs had Nylander. Lets say we had a higher pick, would we have gotten him anyway?

 

[Trainspotter]

Or were we just making things up? Posting opinions as "facts"?

Has anything else ever happened here? You do realise you're on an internet discussion forum and not in an NHL team's war room, right?

There was ample opinion published both by independent scouting services and popular hockey media (THW, THN, etc.) about Nylander suggesting he was undersized, weak and the kind of player only interested in the fun and easy parts of the game. His attitude was openly questioned and often contrasted against his supreme skill level.

If you're looking for a quote from an NHL scout calling him a "Chicken Swede" you'll be looking a long time.

 

[Trainspotter]

I wonder how high Leafs had Nylander. Lets say we had a higher pick, would we have gotten him anyway?

Hard to say. Anyone with half a brain knows we'll never know what team scouts really thought of him.

But, we do know that some well-regarded independent scouting services had him ranked as high as 5th prior to the draft. Mackenzie's list had him lower which may give us a little insight into what NHL scouts thought about his long-term upside.

 

[hullsy47]

Hard to say. Anyone with half a brain knows we'll never know what team scouts really thought of him.

But, we do know that some well-regarded independent scouting services had him ranked as high as 5th prior to the draft. Mackenzie's list had him lower which may give us a little insight into what NHL scouts thought about his long-term upside.

hes 18 ffs how about this for perspective then ?if he played in the OHL hed likley be on a pace for about 120 points ,i know a few guys in yhis years draft that are doing just that ,/so he was a good pick

 

[Trainspotter]

hes 18 ffs how about this for perspective then ?if he played in the OHL hed likley be on a pace for about 120 points ,i know a few guys in yhis years draft that are doing just that ,/so he was a good pick

I agree. He'd tear the OHL a new one. And it looks like the questions about his size and his head can be put to rest a little bit.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I really think we need to get him over to centre and see how he looks there.

 

[silentbob37*]

Hard to say. Anyone with half a brain knows we'll never know what team scouts really thought of him.

But, we do know that some well-regarded independent scouting services had him ranked as high as 5th prior to the draft. Mackenzie's list had him lower which may give us a little insight into what NHL scouts thought about his long-term upside.

I think the most likely out come is that he is basically what his dad was. They play almost identical styles/games, and for most of his career his dad was a 20-25 goal, 55-65 point forward. With the Rangers his dad also showed he could very effectively ride shot gun with an elite player (in his case Jagr).

So it comes down to 1) Where you rate that kind of player 2) How that kind of player ranks vs all the other players in the draft and 3) What the odds are of the prospect exceeding that.

 

[silentbob37*]

I wonder how those rumours started?

It has more to do with how involved his dad is (apparently) with him and his career and how much he moved around and swtiched teams 1-2 years leading up to the draft.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I think the most likely out come is that he is basically what his dad was. They play almost identical styles/games, and for most of his career his dad was a 20-25 goal, 55-65 point forward. With the Rangers his dad also showed he could very effectively ride shot gun with an elite player (in his case Jagr).

So it comes down to 1) Where you rate that kind of player 2) How that kind of player ranks vs all the other players in the draft and 3) What the odds are of the prospect exceeding that.

His dad's skating was average-at-best, so Willy has a huge advantage there.

 

[Hero]

I'm happy he'll finally have some stability in his life after all that moving.

rest of year in the AHL as a winger
1 year in the AHL as a C

Then enter the NHL as a 20 yr old

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

His dad's skating was average-at-best, so Willy has a huge advantage there.

That´s very generous.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

It has more to do with how involved his dad is (apparently) with him and his career and how much he moved around and swtiched teams 1-2 years leading up to the draft.

Could be the case as well. There was a bit of media drama when our version of Don Cherry claimed Nylander senior pushed for Nylander junior moving from Modo to the Marlies already this season. Senior denied it, so did every one else involved but there has certainly been those who say M Nylander dictating where William plays. But then again, he is his father and he is only 18 so nothing wrong with that.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Nylander was touted at the draft as the highest skill set player but carried a lot of risk as it wasn't clear how he would be able to transition into the NHL game considering his size.

It's still exactly the same situation now as it was at the draft, only we've seen him actually play at the NHL level and he did reasonably well for a rookie, especially considering he still has a lot of growing to do.

This is what we should be expecting going forward with the Leafs' drafting.

We'll be targeting the high-risk, high-reward types more and more and banking on our investment into advanced stats and our field of scouts to earn their keep and make sure those picks aren't as risky as the scouting reports foretell.

At this point, anyone trying to label him as a bust or having any type of attitude/behavioural issues is an absolute quack/rumour mongerer and it's siply too early to tell.

Not to mention this organization now has EVEN MORE priority to keep players in the minors as long as possible (similar to Detroit) so it's not very likely we'll see Nylander called up until the organization is confident he will belong.

 

[William Hylander]

I'm happy he'll finally have some stability in his life after all that moving.

rest of year in the AHL as a winger
1 year in the AHL as a C

Then enter the NHL as a 20 yr old

If he enters camp with the likely abysmal team that we have next year, the coach might have to start him in the NHL. If anything to give fans something to look forward to.

 

[MLG Ghost]

If he enters camp with the likely abysmal team that we have next year, the coach might have to start him in the NHL. If anything to give fans something to look forward to.

If he enters camp with the likely abysmal team we have for next year, the coach had better damn well not start him in the NHL; if we are battling it out for 30th next year, Nylander should be kept far away from the ACC. That also goes for whoever we draft this coming June, assuming we don't win the lotttery.

 

[Joey Hoser]

If he enters camp with the likely abysmal team we have for next year, the coach had better damn well not start him in the NHL; if we are battling it out for 30th next year, Nylander should be kept far away from the ACC. That also goes for whoever we draft this coming June, assuming we don't win the lotttery.

How about we don't worry about any of that BS and just play him if he's ready or send him back if he's not?

 

[William Hylander]

If he enters camp with the likely abysmal team we have for next year, the coach had better damn well not start him in the NHL; if we are battling it out for 30th next year, Nylander should be kept far away from the ACC. That also goes for whoever we draft this coming June, assuming we don't win the lotttery.

Why? He's going to be better next year, and it's not like we can't send him down either. If he's good enough to stick in the NHL then he should stay.

The media is a non-issue to me, there's going to be no pressure on the team next year. The draft pick I agree with but Nylander is looking like he should be able to follow Rielly's path to the NHL.

 

[Vexed]

Why? He's going to be better next year, and it's not like we can't send him down either. If he's good enough to stick in the NHL then he should stay.

The media is a non-issue to me, there's going to be no pressure on the team next year. The draft pick I agree with but Nylander is looking like he should be able to follow Rielly's path to the NHL.

I don't think that is true no matter how bad we are or what the goals are. Kadri and Schenn came through when we were bad too and I will never forget the cry baby Naz pics in the Sun.

Just like Nazem I think we should wait until he is ready but the debate on that issue will rage around these kids and starting next year you'll start to hear the irrational 'bust' crowd start revving up.