NOTIFICATION - 2010-11 Rating Challenges Submission Info

[Brock]

The site is almost updated (only some Euro releases and a few trades to deal with), the ratings have been released which means that it's that time of the year for you to challenge the ratings you disagree with.

We're using the same process that was used last year because we feel it brought a lot of success, fairness and stability to the rating challenges.

Here's a reminder on how the system works. Each Conference has two Ratings Challenge markers and a final judge, with the process working more like an actual court room judgment, as opposed to more of the appeal that it has been in years past. One Conference marker will serve as the person you will send your challenges into. He will then rebuttal your challenge. Both your challenge and his rebuttal will then be sent to the Conference judge who will look at the evidence from both sides and make a ruling based on this. We've developed this process in order to make the ratings challenge ruling slightly more consistent and more democratic.

So here are your instructions:

Each team is going to get a maximum of 6 ratings challenges on a maximum of 5 players. OV can not be challenged, except for goaltenders. Goaltender ratings will be challenged by OV (basically you would suggest an overall percentage increase of all ratings).

Please make sure your ratings challenges are well researched and worthwhile. A successful ratings challenge is likely to be built around stats or scouting reports.

Your ratings challenge submission format should appear as follows"

Email Title: "HFNHL Ratings Challenge - Team Name"

1. Player Name
2. Rating being challenged
3. Current Rating
4. Suggested Rating
5. Reasoning or Argument for challenge (aka your proof)

The submission deadline for these challenges is going to be next Wednesday, November 10 at 11:59pm

Please see the below list to figure out who you will be sending your challenges to.

For the Eastern Conference, would the following teams send their ratings challenges to Ville Isopaa at [email protected]

Atlanta Thrashers
Florida Panthers
Washington Capitals
Tampa Bay Lightning
Carolina Hurricanes
Toronto Maple Leafs
Montreal Canadiens
Ottawa Senators

For the Eastern Conference, would the following teams send their ratings challenges to Sean Keogh at [email protected]

Buffalo Sabres
Boston Bruins
Pittsburgh Penguins
Philadelphia Flyers
New York Rangers
New York Islanders
New Jersey Devils

For the Western Conference, would the following teams send their ratings challenges to Rich Epstein at [email protected]

Vancouver Canucks
Calgary Flames
Minnesota Wild
Edmonton Oilers
Colorado Avalanche
San Jose Sharks
Phoenix Coyotes
Dallas Stars

For the Western Conference, would the following teams send their ratings challenges to Rob Krueger at [email protected]

Los Angeles Kings
Anaheim Ducks
Chicago Blackhawks
Columbus Blue Jackets
St. Louis Blues
Detroit Red Wings
Nashville Predators

For the Western Conference, I will be the final judge ([email protected]), and for the Eastern Conference Matt Gledhill ([email protected]) will be the final judge.

Could Rob, Rich, Sean and Ville make sure they send their rebuttals to the correct final judge (ensuring that the original GM argument is also included).

Thank you gentleman.

Any questions, feel free to post them in this thread.

Click to read more...

 

[Brock]

By the way, if you want to see the rating of a particular rookie (you haven't signed yet or hasn't appeared on the site yet), check the yahoo group files section where the EXCEL ratings file is posted.

 

[kasper11]

When submitting challenges (at least to me), please include HFNHL in the subject to make sure they don't get lost.

Thanks
Rich

 

[Fooladelfia]

How do you do the rerates for the goalies cause Halak seems a cone for you I think... He's that bad ???
And Jimmy Howard god.

 

[HFNHL Commish]

How do you do the rerates for the goalies cause Halak seems a cone for you I think... He's that bad ???
And Jimmy Howard god.

Goalies that averaged less than 41 games started to fall into a second-tier ratings wise. This is the case with Halak, who averaged less than 41 games over the previous three seasons. Howard (like Tuukka Rask) benefits from being a full-time starter over a relatively short sample size.

If you word your challenge for Halak appropriately, my guess is that you will see a bump in his ratings.

 

[Vagrant]

Are the formulas for the rerates confidential? If not, having those would certainly help one locate any fallacious lines of thought that might appear in them to strengthen their argument.

For example, it's hard to say that X player should be a 75 in passing instead of a 70 because.... he's good? It is particularly challenging when it comes time to recommend a new rating.

 

[Ohio Jones]

Let's be sure to get the endorsements rolling as well - no reason that process can't start while this is happening, so long as there's a couple of days at the end for people to adjust based on ratings results. That would means we could potentially start the season as soon as Saturday November 13th...

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

The formula for the goalies would be useful in the case of Halak, and also for me with Emery. We will both likely challenge under the justification that they were in fact starters (Halak by season's end, Emery played less only because of injury).

What does a classification from back-up to starter do to a rating? 10%? 20%?

Just need to know the scale to justify the suggested bump.

Thanks.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Are the formulas for the rerates confidential? If not, having those would certainly help one locate any fallacious lines of thought that might appear in them to strengthen their argument.

For example, it's hard to say that X player should be a 75 in passing instead of a 70 because.... he's good? It is particularly challenging when it comes time to recommend a new rating.

I'm not sure of the formula here exactly, but it is pretty standard in terms of a direct relationship of assists / game. Same with scoring, which is basically goals / game.

As a word of caution - challenging these has proven very difficult in past, so think long and hard about your justification before using a challenge on a SC or PA rating.

 

[Brock]

I'm not sure of the formula here exactly, but it is pretty standard in terms of a direct relationship of assists / game. Same with scoring, which is basically goals / game.

As a word of caution - challenging these has proven very difficult in past, so think long and hard about your justification before using a challenge on a SC or PA rating.

Also keep in mind that these ratings come with three year averages. So if a player plays in 5 games, scores zero games in one season. Then scores 30 the next, he will be rated lower because of that 5 game season.

In terms of the other rating categories. The only ratings we made ourselves were the DF, SC, and PA. SC and PA have been explained. I'll let Ville explain the DF since he created them. All the rest we have no idea how they were created.

 

[Wildman]

Also keep in mind that these ratings come with three year averages. So if a player plays in 5 games, scores zero games in one season. Then scores 30 the next, he will be rated lower because of that 5 game season.

In terms of the other rating categories. The only ratings we made ourselves were the DF, SC, and PA. SC and PA have been explained. I'll let Ville explain the DF since he created them. All the rest we have no idea how they were created.

What if the player scored 5 goals in 5 games and scores below average the next season would we give him full credit? I don't know how the rating was done but I think we may need to look at some players who played a minimum role first season but improved substantially the next season.

In my case, I see Brandon Sutter being rated 55 and 51 in PA and SC although he scored 21 goals last season.

 

[Fooladelfia]

Also keep in mind that these ratings come with three year averages.

So I'm ***** for at least 3 years for sure lol

 

[Chuzwazza]

I agree on Halak's ratings being pretty harsh....good luck with that!

And speaking of goalie ratings, I too would be interested to see how they were done.....looking down the list of names and ratings, one goalie to me stands out as being well overrated. I hate to pick on someone in particular (as its not my intention) but given Mr. J-S-Giguere hasn't finished in the top 40 in either save% or GAA in either of the last 2 years, nor has he played a significant majority of his games, how he manages to score an 86 OV rating, one that puts him up with the likes of Luongo, Miller, Vokoun and not too far from Broduer astounds me. Even Tim Thomas after his much publicized drop off this year was still well in front of Giguere this season, and he did also dominate the entire league the year before.

I was planning on challenging Miller's ov of 87, and using Giguere's stats and 86OV rating I could have argued for something in the 90's with ease, but given Miller's rating vs Broduer, Thomas, Vokoun etc is pretty much right I doubt I'd have had any success in a 90 rating....which results in me bringing up Giguere on the boards as a please explain.

 

[Hossa]

In my case, I see Brandon Sutter being rated 55 and 51 in PA and SC although he scored 21 goals last season.

That might be worth double-checking, because while Sutter's ratings are going to be low because of putting up 1 goal and 6 points the year before, those ratings seem almost unfathomably low.

Regardless, those are easy challenges. The ratings set always creates oddities that are rated too low, but ratings can always be challenged up, like Sutter/Halak and whatever. The issue is those that are too high, and we can't challenge down, which is what internal reviews try to resolve.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

How is Tim Kennedy like a player that's never played in the NHL? He's 50 across the board, is that an error?

 

[Dempsey]

The three-year average is really rough on rebuilding teams while benefiting veteran teams. As just one example, Alex Pietrangelo is going to be completely useless for 3 years due to back-to-back 8-game seasons.

Along with the non-existent UFA pool each year it's not easy to climb out of the gutter at the bottom of the standings, that's for sure

 

[Hossa]

The three-year average is really rough on rebuilding teams while benefiting veteran teams. As just one example, Alex Pietrangelo is going to be completely useless for 3 years due to back-to-back 8-game seasons.

Along with the non-existent UFA pool each year it's not easy to climb out of the gutter at the bottom of the standings, that's for sure

It's true, but it's always the way we've done it in this league so it's not a surprise. And there's been no shortage of teams that have rebuilt themselves from the ground up in to Cup contenders, sometimes going zero to sixty in three years.

 

[Brock]

I agree on Halak's ratings being pretty harsh....good luck with that!

And speaking of goalie ratings, I too would be interested to see how they were done.....looking down the list of names and ratings, one goalie to me stands out as being well overrated. I hate to pick on someone in particular (as its not my intention) but given Mr. J-S-Giguere hasn't finished in the top 40 in either save% or GAA in either of the last 2 years, nor has he played a significant majority of his games, how he manages to score an 86 OV rating, one that puts him up with the likes of Luongo, Miller, Vokoun and not too far from Broduer astounds me. Even Tim Thomas after his much publicized drop off this year was still well in front of Giguere this season, and he did also dominate the entire league the year before.

I was planning on challenging Miller's ov of 87, and using Giguere's stats and 86OV rating I could have argued for something in the 90's with ease, but given Miller's rating vs Broduer, Thomas, Vokoun etc is pretty much right I doubt I'd have had any success in a 90 rating....which results in me bringing up Giguere on the boards as a please explain.

JS Giguere is one of about 5 players whose ratings didn't input properly into the SIM due to a difference in the spelling of his name in the ratings file and the SIM.

While I don't know what his OV will be, he rates out similarly in other categories to Marty Turco and Steve Mason.

The other players who need to be fixed (Matt is aware, but is just busy at the moment) are:

Jamie McBain (WSH)
T.J. Oshie (EDM)
Johnny Oduya (FLA)
Jannik Hansen (PIT)
Dustin Byfuglien (STL) (just his SC and PA ratings)

 

[HFNHLOilers]

Darn i was gunna use gigure as a reasin to try to bump kipprusoff up lol guess that wont be happening i was wondering how gigure and kipper had the same ov

 

[Ohio Jones]

Darn i was gunna use gigure as a reasin to try to bump kipprusoff up lol guess that wont be happening i was wondering how gigure and kipper had the same ov

For new GMs, something to keep in mind: a challenge based on comparing one player's ratings to one other player's is seldom successful. There are enough minor idiosyncracies in the ratings set that we can all find individual examples of players rated higher than our players who shouldn't be.

It's more successful to provide statistical breakdowns comparing a group of players of comparable rating in a number of relevant categories, as well as providing scouting reports that speak specifically to the characteristics being considered (such as using The Hockey News describing a player as a "dominant two-way presence" as part of your argument for a better DF...).

 

[Vaive-Alive]

When submitting challenges (at least to me), please include HFNHL in the subject to make sure they don't get lost.

Thanks
Rich

Include HFNHL in the subject for those of you sending to me as well.

May the schwartz be with you.

GM Kruegs

 

[Ohio Jones]

May the schwartz be with you.

I see your schwartz is bigger than mine...

 

[Hossa]

Include HFNHL in the subject for those of you sending to me as well.

For me as well.

 

[Brock]

Just a reminder, these are due tomorrow night. One more day to go.

 

[HFNHL Commish]

I see your schwartz is bigger than mine...

The schwartz is most definitely with me. I made sure of it.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=118953