Nikita Tryamkin III : 2017 Calder, Marriage & Conditioning Thread

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Scurr

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Your (and others throughout this thread) descriptions of Pedan describes a player that has the wonderment coming out of Utica. What was he told by management or WD when he was up the first time? When he came back we saw a new and not so impressive Pedan.

The Pedan who went up to Vancouver to get his first NHL start at LW, about as bizarre a thing as could be imagined, was not the one who returned. He went up a solid good skating d-zone defenseman, who played his position well, was very difficult to beat wide, made the big hit when available, but didn't go looking for it, played the body, made the safe first pass, started the puck up ice himself when it was there, took a lot of wrist shots to ensure his shot got through, and released a bomb when the chance was there. Showed great promise, but still had some problems with coverage away from the puck.

The guy who returned was someone new. He acted like he was supposed to be the second coming of Bobby Orr. He ran all over the ice carrying the puck himself from one side of the defensive zone and back again, when pressured he made blind passes into the traffic lanes creating turnovers and great scoring chances. He took off on rink length dashes trying to toe drag and dippsy doodle his way to the net like Letang and was often stripped and caught up ice. He was a guy who who wanted to carry the puck all the time and had no idea where he was going, why, and what he was going to do when he got there. He pinched on every possible chance again often getting caught up ice. He was unleashing his slapper whenever he got the puck from way out as well as from all angles. Again this resulted in blocked shots for odd man breakouts and turnovers on the wide shots rocketing up the other side of the ice. Too often he was running around looking for the big hits and getting out of position or drawing penalties for his seek and destroy type mentality.

This was not the guy who left for Vancouver. That guy showed great promise of being a decent defender next season with the promise of developing into a real solid NHL defender in another season or two. I'm not so sure now. He didn't develop this new playing style on his own. The idea was planted in his head by someone and it wasn't done in Utica. You are now getting a look at this newly created bust for yourselves. I am sick when I know what kind of player he has become over the past 2 seasons and how that player has disappeared and been replaced by this anomaly in the same body.

As an after thought here, the only Comet who has gone up to Vancouver and come back playing better or the way he left was Zalewski. All the rest of them took a week or two to get back to playing the kind of hockey that got them the call-ups in the first place.

I hope this doesn't come off as defending 'the regime'… and I think the "Utica faithful" are going to hate it… but I don't mind this in general when we're talking the development of some prospects. IMO you have to make a call on players you're developing -is the juice worth the squeeze? Someone like Sbisa, for instance, could do everyone a favour by becoming a low event player. There just isn't enough upside offensively in his game to make a lot of events appealing. He's obviously not a prospect, I think the same applies to Tryamkin. Safe is good.

Pedan is a different animal than Sbisa or Tryamkin, though imo. I've seen enough in his game offensively to want more events. His shot is top shelf, he can hit a player tape to tape two zones away and he creates plays that give you offensive possession. I like the juice.

The squeeze is what we've seen in his play recently. To be fair to Pedan, we've seen this from veteran defensemen that are trying to push the pace. People have turned on guys like Jovo, Bieksa and Edler at different points in their career when things go sideways. Still, this league is very tough to score goals in. You have to have a few guys back there stiring the drink.

I mentioned something similar to you early in the season about Subban, though I think it's more of a necessity for him than Pedan. At any time in his career, Pedan (or the team) can decide he needs to be low event and he'll still be a coveted player. While Subban certainly has to round out his game... he likely can't be a low event defender. The people in charge want a physical element out of the guy, or at least don't want to lack one.

I think if you take a guy like Pedan or Horvat and try to make them a good NHL (or AHL) player as soon as possible, you might be leaving some potential behind. I know that players can be developed the other way around… Kesler was certainly one of them… but the tendency is to stay low event and ride the game around rather than being the kind of player that sets the pace of the game. That's fine for most players... but if you want a great team, you need guys that make plays.

Usually, you'd like a guy like Pedan to be a little further along than he is right now but we know he's lacking pro experience -despite his age and waiver eligibility. And I'm not saying it's ok for him to play like he has been. I don't mind the Canucks pushing him to be more offensively, though, if that is indeed what happened. They don't need the best player they can get right now, they need the best player he can become.
 

Bad Goalie

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If we got Mathews, I would undoubtedly trade him, but not this year. I would either give him one year in the AHL, or playing a legit role (ie. with decent wingers) on the big team, it's not like McCann's value is at an all time high, not sure we would get fair value. I don't think it's ridiculous to predict McCann being PPG or even higher in the AHL if he puts on some weight in the Summer and if Benning gets off his ass and gives him some good AHL wingers to play with.

But if some team were to offer up a prime D prospect, someone like Jacob Larson, Hayden Fleury, or Travis Sanheim right now, I would do the trade in a heartbeat.

Is this a 180 degree turn about from the beginning of this season? I expected (and said so) Jimbo to give his prospects this year what they needed to play with, a #1 center, a veteran RW for the second line, and a #1 d-man. He got none and i was told repeatedly by posters from Vancouver to suck it up. it's the AHL and the prospects get the ice and top roles and vets should be kept out of the picture. Needless to say this was baloney since they didn't have any prospects to fill those roles and thus no ice time would have been stolen from anyone. I could have used your backing all season when continually bringing this up. The prospects and the Comets have suffered for the absence of those players.
 

TheWanderer

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Nov 15, 2013
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Is this a 180 degree turn about from the beginning of this season? I expected (and said so) Jimbo to give his prospects this year what they needed to play with, a #1 center, a veteran RW for the second line, and a #1 d-man. He got none and i was told repeatedly by posters from Vancouver to suck it up. it's the AHL and the prospects get the ice and top roles and vets should be kept out of the picture. Needless to say this was baloney since they didn't have any prospects to fill those roles and thus no ice time would have been stolen from anyone. I could have used your backing all season when continually bringing this up. The prospects and the Comets have suffered for the absence of those players.

I have never seen this spelling of bologna before. Turns out it's legit o_O
 

THE Green Man

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If we got Mathews, I would undoubtedly trade him, but not this year. I would either give him one year in the AHL, or playing a legit role (ie. with decent wingers) on the big team, it's not like McCann's value is at an all time high, not sure we would get fair value. I don't think it's ridiculous to predict McCann being PPG or even higher in the AHL if he puts on some weight in the Summer and if Benning gets off his ass and gives him some good AHL wingers to play with.

But if some team were to offer up a prime D prospect, someone like Jacob Larson, Hayden Fleury, or Travis Sanheim right now, I would do the trade in a heartbeat.

100 percent agree, he looked very bad tonight on the wing and needs to play I the middle in the NHL to be successful. If we had Matthews in the fold I would start looking at moving him but not jumpin the gun like we did with Shink. We have. 2 years left of his ELC to use up until the right deal comes around. He definitely needs time in the AHL to let his body develop and to regain confidence. But with Matthews in the fold I don't really see a place for McCann unless we play Bo as a 3C long term which I think would hurt his development.
 
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Scorvat

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Best player today IMO (not that it was really any hard. His Russian team could probably kick our butts)
 

VanJack

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Tryamkin plays a safe, high percentage game....and that reach!...wow!...he's got the wingspan of a condor and that poke-check is devastatingly effective....and still only 21....wish he'd try lugging the puck up the ice once and awhile like he did on the bigger ice, but that part of his game may come eventually.
 

Catamarca Livin

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Tryamkin plays a safe, high percentage game....and that reach!...wow!...he's got the wingspan of a condor and that poke-check is devastatingly effective....and still only 21....wish he'd try lugging the puck up the ice once and awhile like he did on the bigger ice, but that part of his game may come eventually.

With him and Hutton it seems the Canucks might have 2 dman to go forward with that looked like long shots at the beginning of the year. He also has a physical edge he bullied Backes on the boards vs Stl. If he keeps improving it could get very interesting. There was speculation that he was overhyped, I am starting to think he was under hyped. He looks like an effective player now and the scary thing is he is improving quickly the since 2013 where he was passed over in the draft for a second time. He plays the right side as well. The only good thing in the last 4 games has been him.
 

Tiranis

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Best player today IMO (not that it was really any hard. His Russian team could probably kick our butts)

He played well for his age but that's a stretch. He got dangled a couple of times. Had a few giveaways and some misplays. Markstrom was the best guy on the ice for both teams. Then probably Gaunce who had 5 shots and was constantly making stuff happen offensively & defensively.
 
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Bad Goalie

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I hope this doesn't come off as defending 'the regime'… and I think the "Utica faithful" are going to hate it… but I don't mind this in general when we're talking the development of some prospects. IMO you have to make a call on players you're developing -is the juice worth the squeeze? Someone like Sbisa, for instance, could do everyone a favour by becoming a low event player. There just isn't enough upside offensively in his game to make a lot of events appealing. He's obviously not a prospect, I think the same applies to Tryamkin. Safe is good.

Pedan is a different animal than Sbisa or Tryamkin, though imo. I've seen enough in his game offensively to want more events. His shot is top shelf, he can hit a player tape to tape two zones away and he creates plays that give you offensive possession. I like the juice.

The squeeze is what we've seen in his play recently. To be fair to Pedan, we've seen this from veteran defensemen that are trying to push the pace. People have turned on guys like Jovo, Bieksa and Edler at different points in their career when things go sideways. Still, this league is very tough to score goals in. You have to have a few guys back there stiring the drink.

I mentioned something similar to you early in the season about Subban, though I think it's more of a necessity for him than Pedan. At any time in his career, Pedan (or the team) can decide he needs to be low event and he'll still be a coveted player. While Subban certainly has to round out his game... he likely can't be a low event defender. The people in charge want a physical element out of the guy, or at least don't want to lack one.

I think if you take a guy like Pedan or Horvat and try to make them a good NHL (or AHL) player as soon as possible, you might be leaving some potential behind. I know that players can be developed the other way around… Kesler was certainly one of them… but the tendency is to stay low event and ride the game around rather than being the kind of player that sets the pace of the game. That's fine for most players... but if you want a great team, you need guys that make plays.

Usually, you'd like a guy like Pedan to be a little further along than he is right now but we know he's lacking pro experience -despite his age and waiver eligibility. And I'm not saying it's ok for him to play like he has been. I don't mind the Canucks pushing him to be more offensively, though, if that is indeed what happened. They don't need the best player they can get right now, they need the best player he can become.

I understand the idea of any player being given the chance to become all he can be. Of course you develop a player to his greatest level of expertise. Trying to put guys into boxes that they don't fit in is not the way however. Jim has had a serious tendency to try to fit a player into the mold he feels the team needs rather than working a player's style and strengths into the team's system or maybe altering the system to meet the team's strengths. Vancouver's roster is nothing like the Bruins he was associated with yet he seems determined to create such out of what he has. One day he's talking toughness. The next day the team needs to be big and fast. Then he acquires players who are small and quick, but not fast. The next day he's bringing in a player or players to mentor the kids who don't meet the model he is trying to have them mentor. He wants fast mobile D-men and he gets guys who can't play D, but they can go forward. Now we have the two-headed Russian experiment. Who knows what he wants here, but Pedan's recent play indicates it's another mold the guy into what I want him to be. The guy is all over the map.


So I take it this is just one more of Jimbo's say one thing one day and go 180 on it later? Jim was vehement that Andrey had to become a solid defenseman and the best way for him to do that was keep it simple. Make the simple pass and don't try to do too much. If the guy you are watching now is going to try and become what he's not, he'll be trade bait or on waivers. The NHL Pedan is half way between the two guys we're talking about and he was nearly there save some work on defensive positioning, especially away from the puck. How many guys built like him are puck rushing D-men like Letang? The Pedan we lasst saw made Letang look like a conservative D-man.
 

Canucks LB

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From the few amount of games I have seen him play, he looks like a better skating Hal Gill. Needs to find an edge to his game, and work on his 1st step.
 

Proto

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Looks like a decent bet to be a solid #5 type so far. The eye test is at least tilting to the positive. I'll be curious to see what his underlying numbers look like next year: sometimes guys that look really good in the D Zone also spend a ton of time there. At the very least, he can be better than a lot of the lesser D options next year and should be able to find a home on the bottom pair while he (hopefully) develops his game.
 

Johnny Canucker

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From the few amount of games I have seen him play, he looks like a better skating Hal Gill. Needs to find an edge to his game, and work on his 1st step.

I've seen him live. Probably not a regular NHL player but maybe a 7/8 guy. He's literally Andrew Alberta v2.0
 

CP

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I've seen him live. Probably not a regular NHL player but maybe a 7/8 guy. He's literally Andrew Alberta v2.0

Disagree. At present he moves better that Alberts ever did. I wasn't expecting much before he came, and I've been impressed. I think he is a legitimate bottom pairing defenseman on most teams right now. He has work to do to be a top four defenseman, but it is possible. At 21 and new to the league, he still has unknown upside. No problem going forward with him on the bottom pairing.
 

Uhmkay

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I've seen him live. Probably not a regular NHL player but maybe a 7/8 guy. He's literally Andrew Alberta v2.0

Probably the worst judge of talent on these forums...

... Anyone who's watched him can see this kid has more potential than 7/8, and very likely higher than 5/6 as well.
 

Scurr

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I understand the idea of any player being given the chance to become all he can be. Of course you develop a player to his greatest level of expertise. Trying to put guys into boxes that they don't fit in is not the way however. Jim has had a serious tendency to try to fit a player into the mold he feels the team needs rather than working a player's style and strengths into the team's system or maybe altering the system to meet the team's strengths. Vancouver's roster is nothing like the Bruins he was associated with yet he seems determined to create such out of what he has. One day he's talking toughness. The next day the team needs to be big and fast. Then he acquires players who are small and quick, but not fast. The next day he's bringing in a player or players to mentor the kids who don't meet the model he is trying to have them mentor. He wants fast mobile D-men and he gets guys who can't play D, but they can go forward. Now we have the two-headed Russian experiment. Who knows what he wants here, but Pedan's recent play indicates it's another mold the guy into what I want him to be. The guy is all over the map.


So I take it this is just one more of Jimbo's say one thing one day and go 180 on it later? Jim was vehement that Andrey had to become a solid defenseman and the best way for him to do that was keep it simple. Make the simple pass and don't try to do too much. If the guy you are watching now is going to try and become what he's not, he'll be trade bait or on waivers. The NHL Pedan is half way between the two guys we're talking about and he was nearly there save some work on defensive positioning, especially away from the puck. How many guys built like him are puck rushing D-men like Letang? The Pedan we lasst saw made Letang look like a conservative D-man.

Jovo was a big guy that pushed the pace. Edler does it for us now, or at least when he's not injured. Victor Hedman and Brent Burns are huge guys. I'm not defending Bennning… these are my own thoughts on it and I'm not really sure what (if anything) they said to him… but you seem to be the one trying to put Pedan in a box?
 

Scurr

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Looks like a decent bet to be a solid #5 type so far. The eye test is at least tilting to the positive. I'll be curious to see what his underlying numbers look like next year: sometimes guys that look really good in the D Zone also spend a ton of time there. At the very least, he can be better than a lot of the lesser D options next year and should be able to find a home on the bottom pair while he (hopefully) develops his game.

You commented after the first game that he probably doesn't move the puck well enough to be a top 4 type (I agreed) have you changed on that since? I see something there… not as a "puck mover" but he has been making some plays that I like. He protects the puck and moves it along pretty well. Top 4 upside?
 

fancouver

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A better hal gill or alberts is a big win in my books

That is an incredibly low bar and I was a huge Alberts fan when he was here. People called Alberts AHLberts....

Tryamkin should be compared to top 4 D given his pedigree and what he's done in the KHL, you know, like play top 4 minutes in the KHL.

Spending a 3rd round pick on someone who will likely turn into a 7th defenceman or 6th at best, is not very good drafting.
 

tantalum

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Spending a 3rd round pick on someone who will likely turn into a 7th defenceman or 6th at best, is not very good drafting.

I wouldn't say that. That means you are getting an NHL player. It's not a home run but that would be a reasonably solid pick. And so far he does look to be a solid pick.
 

DL44

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I'm sold on Tryamkin.

He'll be a difference maker back there for a long time.

He's already a disruptive force.. a guy with his reach and size... you forget how difficult they are to play against...
...and has much better IQ and puck skills that I'd ever imagine from a kid passed over twice in the draft.

Anyone see that play he does as a forward is coming in on him... he holds his stick in close to him giving the on-rushing player a a perception that he has more room than he actually does... then all of sudden he's poke checked from 6 feet away.

I'm thinking he'll be 20+ minute per night dman for us... Soon too. If Edler-Tanev are the #1... he'll be on the pairing tucked in right behind them in ice time next yr.
 

canwincup

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Aug 28, 2008
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I'm sold on Tryamkin.

He'll be a difference maker back there for a long time.

He's already a disruptive force.. a guy with his reach and size... you forget how difficult they are to play against...
...and has much better IQ and puck skills that I'd ever imagine from a kid passed over twice in the draft.

Anyone see that play he does as a forward is coming in on him... he holds his stick in close to him giving the on-rushing player a a perception that he has more room than he actually does... then all of sudden he's poke checked from 6 feet away.

I'm thinking he'll be 20+ minute per night dman for us... Soon too. If Edler-Tanev are the #1... he'll be on the pairing tucked in right behind them in ice time next yr.

The one play that stood out for me last night was when he laid out to block a pass, he was in the slot and basically deflected a pass that was close to the blue line. Lol
 

Scurr

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Jun 25, 2009
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I'm sold on Tryamkin.

He'll be a difference maker back there for a long time.

He's already a disruptive force.. a guy with his reach and size... you forget how difficult they are to play against...
...and has much better IQ and puck skills that I'd ever imagine from a kid passed over twice in the draft.

Anyone see that play he does as a forward is coming in on him... he holds his stick in close to him giving the on-rushing player a a perception that he has more room than he actually does... then all of sudden he's poke checked from 6 feet away.

I'm thinking he'll be 20+ minute per night dman for us... Soon too. If Edler-Tanev are the #1... he'll be on the pairing tucked in right behind them in ice time next yr.

I did notice that… I've been working with my son on that recently. "keep your gun in the holster until you're ready to fire". That's good defence.
 
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