NHL's status as worlds best league in jepordy?
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McDonald19
Registered User
I picked 'Still the best, but not all the best players will play here'. So, in my opinion the situation will be pretty much the same than before lock-out. Some great players will stay in Europe because of money, but not many. There's no way any Euro league can compete with salaries in larger scale.
And another thing is, how do you define 'the best'? There's players in the NHL that would be of no use in top european leagues. There's also players who are maybe fast and skilled and great on big ice, but can't handle the physical game in smaller rinks. And for some guys it's really about being in a wrong place at the wrong time. Not everybody even gets a decent chance and they're forced to play their careers in smaller leagues. But generally speaking, NHL will still be the biggest and the beautifullest league, with most of the best players.
And another thing is, how do you define 'the best'? There's players in the NHL that would be of no use in top european leagues. There's also players who are maybe fast and skilled and great on big ice, but can't handle the physical game in smaller rinks. And for some guys it's really about being in a wrong place at the wrong time. Not everybody even gets a decent chance and they're forced to play their careers in smaller leagues. But generally speaking, NHL will still be the biggest and the beautifullest league, with most of the best players.
NHL still the best league...
If they want to stay in Europe, let them. It's all about playing for the Stanely Cup. If they don't understand that, then they don't have the heart or proper mindset to be in the NHL to begin with...
If they want to stay in Europe, let them. It's all about playing for the Stanely Cup. If they don't understand that, then they don't have the heart or proper mindset to be in the NHL to begin with...
If more than 2 actual bona fide NHL players stay in Europe and never come back, I would be shocked.
KeyserSoze said:If they want to stay in Europe, let them. It's all about playing for the Stanely Cup. If they don't understand that, then they don't have the heart or proper mindset to be in the NHL to begin with...
Hmm... So you're saying that if, for example, Swiss league could afford to pay significantly higher salaries than NHL, still most North American star players would stay there and play for Stanley Cup? I think not. And why is Stanley Cup so revered trophy? Because to win it, you have to be among the best of the best. If the most talented players weren't playing in the NHL anymore, then winning Stanley Cup wouldn't be the same anymore. And how do you keep the best players in the NHL? With best salaries. So, in the end, it's all about money these days...
MojoJojo
Registered User
If the NHL breaks the union and succeeds in getting a very restrictive CBA with very low rookie contracts, limited RFA ability to negotiate new contracts(for example not allowing holdouts), a long wait to free agency, and a restrictive cap once they get to free agency, I can see some top European prospects deciding to stay in their native countries for a while. The Russian and Finnish leagues can afford to pay a handful of players at a level which could rival the limited compensation a budding superstar, such aa AO, can expect to get under such a CBA. I can also see guys like Forsberg and Naslund deciding to return to Europe for nostalic reasons, after they have made their careers and money in the NHL. Under such conditions I can see option 2 becoming a reality.
Depends on where the cap ends up.
If it is mid 40's it will be the best league, but not as many of the best players as we had. Some of the mid-level euros might not play here for a much of their careers or maybe not at all. But will still be the best league.
If the cap somehow ends up in the mid 30's, or even lower than that, than for a time the NHL will not be the best league. If the cap ended up there it probably means the lockout when through next season also and at that point when the league comes back it's going to be full of young players and most if not all of the veteran euro players will be playing at home. It will improve over time but in the end a lot of euros will stay at home and play. The top euros will always come because they will still make too much money here to not come, but it's the 2nd-3rd line guys that will not come over.
If it is mid 40's it will be the best league, but not as many of the best players as we had. Some of the mid-level euros might not play here for a much of their careers or maybe not at all. But will still be the best league.
If the cap somehow ends up in the mid 30's, or even lower than that, than for a time the NHL will not be the best league. If the cap ended up there it probably means the lockout when through next season also and at that point when the league comes back it's going to be full of young players and most if not all of the veteran euro players will be playing at home. It will improve over time but in the end a lot of euros will stay at home and play. The top euros will always come because they will still make too much money here to not come, but it's the 2nd-3rd line guys that will not come over.
Mess
Global Moderator
Not TrueMcDonald19 said:
Ilya Kovalchuk was one of the NHL's best and top goal scorers with 41 last season..
Proving to himself and the World that he is one of the Best players in it ..
Ilya made 1.3 M to play in NHL and 3.0 M to play in the REL ..
The NHL is 82 games and the REL 44 games and a lot less travel and a much better income tax system.
Why would Ilya ever come back to the NHL to play in Atlanta with little chance for years yet of a Championship or play at home for triple the money , 1/2 the games to earn it and play on a Russian team stacked to try and win a championship ..
He could represent his coountry in the Olympics and World Championships
Why would Kovalchuk ever come back to the NHL??
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Digger12
Gold Fever
The Messenger said:
If Mother Russia is such a hockey paradise, why did Lecavalier and Richards look like prisoners of Kamp Krusty during their CBC interviews a couple of months ago? They looked miserable, especially VL.
What solace is $$ when you live in a country that's not exactly known for its stability or guaranteed contracts?
KeyserSoze said:If they want to stay in Europe, let them. It's all about playing for the Stanely Cup. If they don't understand that, then they don't have the heart or proper mindset to be in the NHL to begin with...
There clearly is something you don't understand. In the NHL it's all about playing for the Stanley Cup, elsewhere it is not. Anything else?
- Feb 27, 2002
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KeyserSoze said:If they want to stay in Europe, let them. It's all about playing for the Stanely Cup. If they don't understand that, then they don't have the heart or proper mindset to be in the NHL to begin with...
Boucicaut said:
Hey Boucicaut, I think *you* may be guilty of a little misunderstanding yourself.
Or at least I think I know what KeyserSoze was getting at.
Please allow me to elucidate....
Once upon a time young men dreamed of one day making their mark in the most renowned hockey league on the planet. Of having the fans of this league glorify their exploits. Of being a part of the great story that was being written. Of having their name engraved on the holy grail of hockey. Of becoming.... a legend.
In those days, financial security was in no way, shape, or form a part of that dream. It was all about love & devotion, heart & soul, guts & glory.... the Stanley Cup.
They worshiped that Cup, and they worshiped that league....
I believe the “heart & mindset†that KeyserSoze alluded to has to do with this kind of young man. He still exists IMO, albeit his love of money has grown exponentially.
The greed factor may have perverted him somewhat but we the fan, unfettered by that albatross, remain pure at heart.
At least most of us.....
It’s all about Stanley, baby!
You know if he wants to stay there it's fine with me. The NHL would be a much better league if we had less europeans players anyway. There's a lot of good old Canadian players who never had a chance to play in the NHL because of European players. So wath you are say is that Kovalchuk is playing only for the money????The Messenger said:
Luigi Lemieux
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2003
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most european players are. can you blame them? if your home country was offering you good money and it meant you could stay at home with your friends and family, why would you go play in a different country?OTTSENS said:
i also hope youre not serious when you say you'd rather have some canadian plugger take kovalchuk's spot in the league..
OTTSENS said:
Interesting, people with views like this can still be found...I'm stunned. Sure there is a lot of good old Canadian players who never got the chance...could it be because they were not good enough, perhaps? And if so, please explain how any league will become better by including lesser players instead of the good ones?
ShippinItDaily
Registered User
The Messenger said:
Sure, your points are very valid for this season. But its a fact that AK Bars Kazan is set to lose millions of dollars this season from their hugely inflated payroll. But the ownership still chose to do what they have done because the city is having a major anniversery this year and they are desperate to win a championship.
So while they were able to spend wildly this season it is very doubtful that they will do the same next year and in future years when they have revenue that comes no where close to matching there expenses. I believe what they did this year was a one time thing that wont happen again.
Rich people will ignore the bottom line in order to win. It's always been that way and always will be that way. It's why NHL teams overspend now.
I saw this a lot when I was involved with thoroughbred horse racing. Very few owners make money with their stables. Most just want to win -- no matter the cost. Those involved thought that only North Americans would own Kentucky Derby winners. The rest of the world had neither the money nor the talent.
Soon, though, the Saudis were taking shots. Then the Japanese. Now you see all kinds of Europeans as well. Its not an Americans-only atmosphere any longer.
People in other parts of the world have money. And if they get interested in spending that money on hockey, it could spell the end for the NHL as the world's best league. The world's best players come here now because of the money -- they will go elsewhere for more money.
That's something to keep in mind. (Especially since hockey is on the Saudi radar.)
I saw this a lot when I was involved with thoroughbred horse racing. Very few owners make money with their stables. Most just want to win -- no matter the cost. Those involved thought that only North Americans would own Kentucky Derby winners. The rest of the world had neither the money nor the talent.
Soon, though, the Saudis were taking shots. Then the Japanese. Now you see all kinds of Europeans as well. Its not an Americans-only atmosphere any longer.
People in other parts of the world have money. And if they get interested in spending that money on hockey, it could spell the end for the NHL as the world's best league. The world's best players come here now because of the money -- they will go elsewhere for more money.
That's something to keep in mind. (Especially since hockey is on the Saudi radar.)
This one has got to be one of the easiest Polls I've ever participated in.......It is clearly the best League and always will be........others will and may try to better the NHL but they don't have the history and the tradition like they do.
Dark Metamorphosis said:
He did mean it.. Do not kid yourself. And the reason is money. Only money. Hockey is a very developed industry in Canada to strike rich, even if you are as bad as Nick Kiprios or Wade Belak. There tons of other Canadians stay behind in line for NHL first class airplane tickets out of their farm holes communities, but it ain't coming, because of those god damn Europeans. That's where the bitterness is coming from.
Canadian hockey minds were running this league for a very long time, and kept the doors open for localy born pluggers. Garry Bettman is a foolish man, the idiot was fed by the spoon the Canadian way of goon hockey and lesser talents as the essential ingredient as long as he is in the league. The man learns that you have to promote the stars, and not the team sick work .
But the economic situation of NHL is changing. League could not afford passengers from Calgary and Red Deer. The future game to be sold to Americans needs Kovalchuks, Malkins, Ovechkins and Grosbys and not some Canadian kid who is nothing but would do anything to make it in the league and strike it rich.
The Canadian mafia of the game, who was fooling world for so long has to change the rules now to make the game more presentable and it means less Canadian content in the future. Canada is population challenged country, which could not produce enough of the exiting stars to fill the league rosters. It means more Europeans and even Americans will come for the faster, more open game. The plumbers of grab and clutch hockey do not need to apply.
Mess
Global Moderator
Fair enough .. Forsberg and Naslund may stay in Sweden and raise their Families ..dangler19 said:
Some times Country comes before money ..
Those two expamles I have just given would again be directed at the question of this thread .. Star Hockey players playing Outside the NHL ..
How about a young guy like Ovechkin ?? The NHL is proposing a 4 year entry level contract for rookies at 850k .. Do you beleive that any Russian team could not afford to pay him more then that .. Same with Malkin .. So if the top draft picks in the Future stay in Europe then what ??
Nice little interesting discussion going on here regarding Canadian players VS European players........there's a couple of points I,d like to make here regarding this topic:
(1) The influx of European hockey players have helped to raise the level of the game in the NHL and as well has helped to make the North American players better (this means American and Canadian players combined),
(2) If it weren't for the influx of European players into the NHL how much more diluted would the talent level of the League be?.........as far as I'm concerned there are too many teams in today's NHL and too many teams in the wrong markets and not enough teams in the right places like my hometown of Hamilton Ontario.
(3) Having said all that the majority of NHLers hail from Canada........25% from the province of Ontario alone.......there might be alot of guys like Belak and Webb in the League that don't deserve to be there HOWEVER, there's alot of excellent hockey talent from Canada and anybody out there who disagrees should get out the smelling salts and give their heads a shake.
(1) The influx of European hockey players have helped to raise the level of the game in the NHL and as well has helped to make the North American players better (this means American and Canadian players combined),
(2) If it weren't for the influx of European players into the NHL how much more diluted would the talent level of the League be?.........as far as I'm concerned there are too many teams in today's NHL and too many teams in the wrong markets and not enough teams in the right places like my hometown of Hamilton Ontario.
(3) Having said all that the majority of NHLers hail from Canada........25% from the province of Ontario alone.......there might be alot of guys like Belak and Webb in the League that don't deserve to be there HOWEVER, there's alot of excellent hockey talent from Canada and anybody out there who disagrees should get out the smelling salts and give their heads a shake.
nyrmessier011
Registered User
The Messenger said:
that holds no water at this point...he's an extremely young player who scored 40 goals last season...he is making more in russia then in the NHL right now, but once he resigns he'll make 5 million
Mess
Global Moderator
How would you know that or at least the amount?nyrmessier011 said:
If you are following the CBA talks closely you will notice that the NHL proposes a 75% Qualifying offer to Kovalchuk who made 1.3 M last season to keep his rights ..
If Salary arbitration is removed as the NHL wants or limited or capped to 25% max increase their other suggestion..
How will Kovalchuk get his next contract up to $5 million .. The Owners and GM's from day 1 would be making the same mistakes that brought us to this point today of overpaid players .. if they gave Kovalckuk that Dany Heatley would in turn ask for roughly the same amount and soon Atlanta has 2 players taking up 10 mil of a Salary Cap .
The rest of the Owners will be furious because when their young players like Rick Nash, etc has a big year they too now would want 5 Mil.. If the Stars are only getting 5 mil in a Cap world the young players are going to have to put in a lot more time to earn 5 mil season or the whole system will be shot is no time again ..
If the NHL gets its way in this CBA then the most Kovalchuk could expect to get is 1.3 M + 25% raise legally up to 1.625 M ..That is all Atlanta is obligated to give him .. Still only roughly 1/2 he makes this season in RSL ..
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