NHL & Vegas Part Deuces Wild: Betting it all on Black (Knights)

[Sens Mile]

It's because you erroneously think the desert is what's causing Arizona's struggles.

Casinos are a big difference, Casino's would buy NHL tickets while the option does not exist in Arizona

Hopefully the owners could put pressure on the Nevada Wolf Pack to set up a NCAA Division 1 hockey program, would be good cross promotion and would help build a fan base for NHL longterm in Vegas

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Hopefully the owners could put pressure on the Nevada Wolf Pack to set up a NCAA Division 1 hockey program, would be good cross promotion and would help build a fan base for NHL longterm in Vegas

The Wolfpack play in Reno, so I'm not sure how that would help. Reno is far closer to San Jose than it is to Vegas. UNLV would be the school to look for.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Casinos are a big difference, Casino's would buy NHL tickets while the option does not exist in Arizona

Not yet, anyway. That's going to change pretty quickly once the casino north of Westgate gets built.

But yeah, the Strip is going to help fill the Vegas arena for sure.

 

[Brodie]

The Wolfpack play in Reno, so I'm not sure how that would help. Reno is far closer to San Jose than it is to Vegas. UNLV would be the school to look for.

and their athletic department is effectively broke

 

[Jeffrey93]

Casinos are a big difference, Casino's would buy NHL tickets while the option does not exist in Arizona

They will? Says who?

And how many?

 

[Jeffrey93]

Sorry if this article has been posted already but....wow.

This is scary. Struggling to get 10,000 deposits is one thing...then saying playoffs in the first 3 years??

So if this team does ever show up, anything short of the playoffs in 3 years will be deemed as a failure. Good way to start, setting yourself up to be a failure in your fan's eyes 3 years in.

 

[Acesolid]

Sorry if this article has been posted already but....wow.

This is scary. Struggling to get 10,000 deposits is one thing...then saying playoffs in the first 3 years??

So if this team does ever show up, anything short of the playoffs in 3 years will be deemed as a failure. Good way to start, setting yourself up to be a failure in your fan's eyes 3 years in.

There's nothing wrong with setting ambitious goals for an expansion team. And by ''or else'', I'm pretty sure he means the first GM and coach's heads will be a stake if they dont reach that objective!

And I say that altrough it is ambitious, it's an attainable goal in my opinion, if you draft well, use your cap space to sign free agents (even if you overpay), and get a coach with a great defensive system who creates a clear team identity.

 

[Jeffrey93]

There's nothing wrong with setting ambitious goals for an expansion team. And by ''or else'', I'm pretty sure he means the first GM and coach's heads will be a stake if they dont reach that objective!

And I say that altrough it is ambitious, it's an attainable goal in my opinion, if you draft well, use your cap space to sign free agents (even if you overpay), and get a coach with a great defensive system who creates a clear team identity.

I'm not saying it isn't achievable, I'm saying it already puts it out there what failure is. What happens when they don't make the playoffs for 10 years? The expectation now is 3.

If you stick to your word and clean house after 3 years....then that means all the new hires will need time to change things. Then when what they do falls short.....oh boy.

Awfully short-sighted to me and creates an expectation that it is very likely you won't be able to meet.

On the plus side....I'd wager the bulk of people that put down deposits for this potential team haven't and won't see this.

 

[Acesolid]

I'm not saying it isn't achievable, I'm saying it already puts it out there what failure is. What happens when they don't make the playoffs for 10 years? The expectation now is 3.

If you stick to your word and clean house after 3 years....then that means all the new hires will need time to change things. Then when what they do falls short.....oh boy.

Awfully short-sighted to me and creates an expectation that it is very likely you won't be able to meet.

On the plus side....I'd wager the bulk of people that put down deposits for this potential team haven't and won't see this.

Meh, the management not accepting mediocrity is a good thing in my opinion. Look at the Oilers, for exemple, and you'll see what happens when a team accepts mediocrity as being their team identity because they'll "eventually get better" trough sucking so much and have so many picks that they'll eventually have to draft some good players!

I dont see that as acceptable. If I were them, my exemple to follow is the Minnesota Wild, who actually managed to make the playoffs in their third year of existance and reached the Conference finals.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Meh, the management not accepting mediocrity is a good thing in my opinion. Look at the Oilers, for exemple, and you'll see what happens when a team accepts mediocrity as being their team identity because they'll "eventually get better" trough sucking so much and have so many picks that they'll eventually have to draft some good players!

I dont see that as acceptable. If I were them, my exemple to follow is the Minnesota Wild, who actually managed to make the playoffs in their third year of existance and reached the Conference finals.

Of course that's what you want to do....but stating that as your goal "or else" is setting yourself up for failure.

If you're operating immediately under a 3-year plan and going to clean house after 3 years if you don't make the playoffs ....well, IF this ever happens I can already see the posts on HFboards in 15 years saying "it was mismanaged from the start, we need more time....the right management and ownership". Can't wait!

 

[Acesolid]

Of course that's what you want to do....but stating that as your goal "or else" is setting yourself up for failure.

If you're operating immediately under a 3-year plan and going to clean house after 3 years if you don't make the playoffs ....well, IF this ever happens I can already see the posts on HFboards in 15 years saying "it was mismanaged from the start, we need more time....the right management and ownership". Can't wait!

Well we'll have to agree to disagree I guess, but from a management perspective it's much better to set aggressive (but possible) objectives, even trough it might mean failure. Then to set low objectives that are very likely to be attained, but might very well end up not letting the team reach 100% of their potential, and make permanent mediocrity and laziness part of the culture of the team.

No, in my experience, people work a lot better "under pressure".

 

[GuelphStormer]

Of course that's what you want to do....but stating that as your goal "or else" is setting yourself up for failure.

If you're operating immediately under a 3-year plan and going to clean house after 3 years if you don't make the playoffs ....well, IF this ever happens I can already see the posts on HFboards in 15 years saying "it was mismanaged from the start, we need more time....the right management and ownership". Can't wait!

i didnt see foley's comments the same way you did. i saw them as excited and optimistic hype.

i'd be excited if i was him too.

 

[FlareKnight]

Well we'll have to agree to disagree I guess, but from a management perspective it's much better to set aggressive (but possible) objectives, even trough it might mean failure. Then to set low objectives that are very likely to be attained, but might very well end up not letting the team reach 100% of their potential, and make permanent mediocrity and laziness part of the culture of the team.

No, in my experience, people work a lot better "under pressure".

You could also set a goal to win the Stanley Cup in their first season of existence that's also possible, but similar to the playoffs in 3 seasons exceedingly improbable.

True enough people will put in effort when they have a goal, but an improbable goal may not have much effect at all since everyone there will know it's not going to actually happen.

As to the Oilers, I really don't think expectations were the reason they are in the current state. It certainly didn't help in terms of being able to change gears quickly, but that situation is far more about poor drafting, development, and team assembling.

You can't just will yourself places in the NHL without having the right guys on the roster.

 

[Fugu]

Sorry if this article has been posted already but....wow.

This is scary. Struggling to get 10,000 deposits is one thing...then saying playoffs in the first 3 years??

So if this team does ever show up, anything short of the playoffs in 3 years will be deemed as a failure. Good way to start, setting yourself up to be a failure in your fan's eyes 3 years in.

By the time Vegas gets a team, and it's 3 years out, no one will remember him saying it (except here on the BOH).

 

[Jeffrey93]

Well we'll have to agree to disagree I guess, but from a management perspective it's much better to set aggressive (but possible) objectives, even trough it might mean failure. Then to set low objectives that are very likely to be attained, but might very well end up not letting the team reach 100% of their potential, and make permanent mediocrity and laziness part of the culture of the team.

No, in my experience, people work a lot better "under pressure".

You're talking about something very different than I am.

You are talking about objectives the Owner would set for his management team. I'm talking about objectives he is stating publicly for potential fans to hear and hold as expectations.

What I'm saying isn't about trying to reach the playoffs by their 3rd year....it's telling the potential fans that is the plan "or else".

He can tell the future President, GM, Coaches, players and bus driver that the franchise's objective is to go 98-0 in year two for a Stanley Cup win. It would be ridiculous....but go nuts. They would read that as meaning he wants to be the best they can possibly be as soon as possible.

Telling potential fans you want to be in the playoffs in year 3...tells them if they don't make it, it's a failure. Now you have to answer to why it failed, how is it going to be fixed, who is responsible for the failure? So now people expect change when change might not be necessary. If you don't change things and again don't make the playoffs....even more answering to do. If you do change and don't make the playoffs...you might have made things even worse.

I saw his comments as the start. The start of falling short and the start of the excuses. "The initial approach and goals set weren't realistic, we need to go back to the drawing board." Then 10 years later a shake-up of the front office after 3 years will be blamed for the following 5+ years of mediocrity.

His ambitious plans for now should be getting to 10,000.....then actually getting a team. Now potential fans aren't even on that page....they're seeing playoff games in 3 years for a team that might never exist. The whole thing is ridiculous.

 

[Jeffrey93]

By the time Vegas gets a team, and it's 3 years out, no one will remember him saying it (except here on the BOH).

True enough. Comments like these might be forgotten already, a silver lining to an iffy market I guess.

 

[Soundgarden]

All it takes is good goaltending, a good system everyone buys into and a bit of luck and it's an entirely attainable goal. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to set lofty goals, as long as they get decent management they could set themselves up nicely.

 

[Jeffrey93]

All it takes is good goaltending, a good system everyone buys into and a bit of luck and it's an entirely attainable goal. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to set lofty goals, as long as they get decent management they could set themselves up nicely.

Two things can happen:
1) You reach that goal, and it was expected by your fan base already. So you met the expectation.
2) You don't reach that goal, fan base views this as a failure and possibly so does ownership. Changes happen whether needed or not.

Neither of those are a huge bonus.

 

[Fenway]

Phil Maloof says he plans to install the old Chicago Stadium organ which he owns at MGM Arena.

 

[HanSolo]

^ Nice. Honda Center doesn't use an organ.

I personally dont understand Las Vegas as a market with how much Phoenix is struggling in the desert. Meanwhile hockey crazed Quebec city has a bran new rink.

I understand they want balance in the conferences but they should be going where there is actual demand.

Why do people compare the two cities?

The economic dynamics of both are radically different.

 

[HanSolo]

The Wolfpack play in Reno, so I'm not sure how that would help. Reno is far closer to San Jose than it is to Vegas. UNLV would be the school to look for.

UNLV technically has a hockey team but it's club level right now.

Sorry if this article has been posted already but....wow.

This is scary. Struggling to get 10,000 deposits is one thing...then saying playoffs in the first 3 years??

So if this team does ever show up, anything short of the playoffs in 3 years will be deemed as a failure. Good way to start, setting yourself up to be a failure in your fan's eyes 3 years in.

An owner making guarantees of success that are unrealistic? What a novel concept. Didn't Pegula guarantee a cup within three years of his becoming owner?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Sorry if this article has been posted already but....wow.

This is scary. Struggling to get 10,000 deposits is one thing...then saying playoffs in the first 3 years??

So if this team does ever show up, anything short of the playoffs in 3 years will be deemed as a failure. Good way to start, setting yourself up to be a failure in your fan's eyes 3 years in.

What?

They are getting close to 10K and that is without Casino involvement

Not sure how that is "Struggling"

 

[HanSolo]

What?

They are getting close to 10K and that is without Casino involvement

Not sure how that is "Struggling"

And almost every luxury box has been sold. Something that wasn't even a condition for the drive.

 

[Killion]

Phil Maloof says he plans to install the old Chicago Stadium organ which he owns at MGM Arena.

Is that right? Wondered who owned what was left of The Barton ....

Hooked up to 52 massive pipes in the old Chicago Stadium... 800 Stop Tabs, 100hp Blower.... You could shatter light bulbs,
crack windows with that thing. Unreal. I knew it was in a private collection in Nevada, just not sure who's. Maloof huh?

 

[Jeffrey93]

What?

They are getting close to 10K and that is without Casino involvement

Not sure how that is "Struggling"

Aren't we almost 2 months into this thing??

They originally stated that getting 12,500 to 13,000 deposits was their expectation/belief.

Putting 10% down is nothing to sneeze at. Putting $150-$900 down in a binding agreement is going to be more difficult than a refundable deposit. But, it is refundable if the team doesn't start play in the league by next year.

So, if people do think this will happen by next year....they aren't rushing to get their seats reserved. If they don't think it will happen by next year, they aren't rushing to put down their money when they fully expect it to be refunded.

Should've been over 10k by now I think. If this is gauging the level of demand the meter would be reading mild to low.