NHL & Vegas Part Deuces Wild: Betting it all on Black (Knights)

[Disappointed EP40]

I object. Got a whole lot sleazier. No offense to the Vegas folks, but when I think of the Strip -- gambling, the booze culture, being served by scantily clad women, and the rest of it -- I don't really think "sexy."

I think Vegas is seen just as much as sexy as it is sleazy, but to each their own.

 

[Fugu]

I think Vegas is seen just as much as sexy as it is sleazy, but to each their own.

Just as much? I can see the perception being in the eye of the beholder, of course, so.....

Can you explain what you think is sexy about it?

 

[Brodie]

Seattle isn't playing hardball. If anything, the rumors on that front have the city prepared to make things very easy (substituting NHL team values for NBA ones from 2 years ago using the Clippers as justification for the inflation). It's simply a matter of the private funding matching up.

Las Vegas is basically done and dusted. If the NHL was interested in any city other than Seattle, they wouldn't bother with the one off expansion talk. That telegraphs their intentions... they want Seattle and they're willing to wait for either them or another city out west.

 

[Killion]

NHL will at least announce Vegas NHL this summer that much is guaranteed. If enough progress is being made on the NHL first front for Seattle to where NHL knows its a sure thing then they will announce both at the same time

Really? Your aware of how many light years ahead of Seattle Quebec City is yes?... clearly we disagree about it and thats cool. This is not the thread to debate that, you bet on your long shot & I'll bet on mine as Ive determined the odds on mine are a Hell of a lot better.

 

[Brodie]

I don't see any rational way you can claim Quebec City is in the league's plans right now. I mean, there isn't even a shred of evidence to support that position.

 

[IceAce]

.... well, one things for certain: Vegas gets in, NHL just got a whole lot sexier. And thats a good thing.

 

[Killion]

I don't see any rational way you can claim Quebec City is in the league's plans right now. I mean, there isn't even a shred of evidence to support that position.

Oh no?....

..... guess not Brodie, photo-shopped... like the Apollo Lunar Landings.
And no, this not in fact a long hidden NASA photo taken on the moon.

 

[cutchemist42]

I am with Killion here, no way a business savvy person, in a hockey-mad province, randomly decides to build an NHL quality rink for no reason whatsoever, while staying shut about it. When it comes to Canadian markets, silence is a good sign. I mean, anyone remember even when the NHL got upset that the costs were revealed publicly about the arena? Why be upset if its not an NHL arena?

Id be taking Quebec before Seattle if I had to do a friendly wager.

 

[Major4Boarding]

You don't have to worry. This has been a done deal for years. The ticket drive is just window dressing, so they look like they're following standard protocol.

I would guess an announcement could happen after the playoffs, to be honest.

May is typically the month of "Big" announcements. Wouldn't shock me at all its announced this May and all the pomp and circumstance emanating from this years Award show.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Vegas as a one-off, imo, depends on how far Seattle can advance post FEIS. If there's signs in May of a new MOU getting done by this summer, the league might wait and announce two teams with staggered start dates (say 2016-17 and 2017-18). Either way, though, Vegas has to be announced this year.

The fact that Vegas is being announced as a one off is a massive, massive clue for how this is heading wrt team #32. Simply put, if Quebec City were even in the conversation, there's no need to go with an unbalanced league indefinitely. That plus the uncharacteristically blatant interest in Seattle is enough to signal that a one-off is simply a placeholder move until Seattle gets the arena deal done (and, imo anyway, it's a clear sign that the NHL is positive on one of the three locations coming together at the minimum). There's no other reason to do this when you could grant a team to other markets immediately.

are you suggesting quebec is being held as a relocation spot for a troubled eastern franchise, or that it isnt being considered at all? and that a clean 16/16 alignment is driving it all?

 

[Brodie]

Oh no?....



..... guess not Brodie, photo-shopped... like the Apollo Lunar Landings.
And no, this not in fact a long hidden NASA photo taken on the moon.

Yeah, they built an arena.

Meanwhile, Gary Bettman is running around talking about Seattle's non-existent arena to anyone who'll listen and breaking news about various alternative ownership groups there. Quebec could start play tomorrow, yet everyone thinks Vegas will be a one off? Why?

I want the Nordiques to come back just as much as anyone but compare the press this Vegas team is getting to them and tell me in what universe you're living to think they're about to enter the league together.

 

[BattleBorn]

I want the Nordiques to come back just as much as anyone but compare the press this Vegas team is getting to them and tell me in what universe you're living to think they're about to enter the league together.

Vegas is a pretty unique situation, there likely isn't another realistic market in Canada or the US that would require a pre-announcement ticket drive. People would just look at the demographics, arena situation, ownership group and go for it in most any other city. As a Las Vegan I don't think it's super fair, but it's what it takes to do it here fair or not.

I would take the Vegas press with a grain of salt, it's not a normal situation at all. I'd compare QC to Seattle when it comes to the "normal" expansion cities.

 

[Brodie]

are you suggesting quebec is being held as a relocation spot for a troubled eastern franchise, or that it isnt being considered at all? and that a clean 16/16 alignment is driving it all?

I'm suggestioning that it takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to look at the NHL rushing to grant a team to Las Vegas as a one off and talking incessantly about Seattle, when the league just happens to need two Western Conference teams teams, and then loom at the radio silence on Quebec and then come to the conclusion that the latter is getting a team. You're going yo say BUT WINNIPEG, and to that I'll say where is QC's Darren Ford? It's Nords-o-Metre? It's mainstream mentions from any hockey press? It's a totally different situation

I'm not sure if the NHL made Quebec City assurances or not. Everyone denied it at the time the arena was approved. I'm sure that if the situation arose in the east, they would be an ideal landing place.

 

[Killion]

Yeah, they built an arena.

Meanwhile, Gary Bettman is running around talking about Seattle's non-existent arena to anyone who'll listen and breaking news about various alternative ownership groups there. Quebec could start play tomorrow, yet everyone thinks Vegas will be a one off? Why?

I want the Nordiques to come back just as much as anyone but compare the press this Vegas team is getting to them and tell me in what universe you're living to think they're about to enter the league together.

Why, the Andromeda Cluster Brodie.... Beyond the Milky Way... but I digress.... Oh, I have no doubt whatsoever that the NHL longs to plant a flag in the PNW. Have since the early 70's in fact. But then as now, problems. Complete & utter logjam. The City & County according to some here want a promise that "yes, we will come if you build it" (in writing, and that if it fails, NHL on the hook; ya, like thats gunna happen) and as you know darn well, thats not the way the league operates.... As for these ethereal "ownership groups", Ray B et al, their as hard to pin down as ectoplasm. Where are they? Where are these Champions publicly galloping out onto the field in their glorious coats of mail with real money of their own & the will to fight to succeed? Where?... Hiding behind Hansens skirts, thats where. Trailing along on his train... and he doesnt know if he's coming or going leaving or staying... waiting for Goddo is what he's doing and Im bored watching it. Absurdism to the extreme.

And into this mess you think the NHL parachutes a team huh?.... Just because everyone else says so.... well everyone else is wrong and just how Seattle jumps the que on Quebec is a complete departure from reality not as you suggest the other way around. Bettman desperately wants the market, absolutely, but not like that, no chance. In total flux. Goal there mid-term, like a Relo and maybe in 3-5yrs. We just dont know and when your talking about a billion dollar project including a franchise there is no room for error. So. Where is your proof? What have you got but a lot of smoke & mirrors and an NBA wannabe owner and you then suggest Im delusional to think QC is a non-starter? Clear to me you & others are misreading, misunderstanding, have no grasp of how business operates in Quebec. They dont do what theyve done on a wing and a prayer. They dont gamble & when they do, they hold all the cards and very often have their other hand on the trigger of a shotgun just to be sure you dont even think about jacking them around. These are serious people involved. A guy like Hansen, Bartoszek... wouldnt last 5 minutes in Quebec. No country for schemers of that ilk. Thats the Universe I live in Man and I speak from experience. If you read the signs, between the lines, pay attention, Quebec is as inevitable, as sure as it gets.

 

[Hoodaha]

Really? Your aware of how many light years ahead of Seattle Quebec City is yes?... clearly we disagree about it and thats cool. This is not the thread to debate that, you bet on your long shot & I'll bet on mine as Ive determined the odds on mine are a Hell of a lot better.

The NHL falling short of revenue targets because of the Canadian dollar doesn't help Quebec's chances. It'll happen eventually, but QC doesn't have the corporate potential that a Seattle does either. I think they'll just wait for an owner with deep pockets ready to shell out a boatload of cash to activate that market.

 

[danishh]

I am with Killion here, no way a business savvy person, in a hockey-mad province, randomly decides to build an NHL quality rink for no reason whatsoever, while staying shut about it. When it comes to Canadian markets, silence is a good sign. I mean, anyone remember even when the NHL got upset that the costs were revealed publicly about the arena? Why be upset if its not an NHL arena?

Id be taking Quebec before Seattle if I had to do a friendly wager.

yes, there's no way a billionaire businessman would build an 100% taxpayer funded arena that guarantees him profit regardless of the league that plays there. No way this business man would use this to raise the profile of his nationalist media company. No way this business man, who also happens to be a politician, would use this to leverage goodwill as he tries to convince the province he should be the next premier.

 

[LeafShark]

A lot of people here seem to like the idea of the NHL holding Quebec in their pocket for a potential relocation. I propose a different scenario.

Expand into LV(pacific) and QC(central) this year or next.
Only promise Seattle the franchise as they are building their arena

If a franchise requires relocation, relocate to Seattle and play in SoDo (as they were willing to when Phoenix was going through some trouble).

* It also makes too much sense to expand a high-risk franchise paired with a low-risk franchise.

 

[MNNumbers]

yes, there's no way a billionaire businessman would build an 100% taxpayer funded arena that guarantees him profit regardless of the league that plays there. No way this business man would use this to raise the profile of his nationalist media company. No way this business man, who also happens to be a politician, would use this to leverage goodwill as he tries to convince the province he should be the next premier.

Killion's theory has little to do with Quebecor, and more to do with the politicians who financed the building of that arena. I believe if you ask him, he will explain that it makes no sense for Quebec to build such a thing for the Remparts and concerts only.

His idea of 'the fix is in' has to do with the City/province and the league.

And, by the way, Killion, many would say the proper expression is "In like Flynn." You could google that for more of the word-play entertainment which you so enjoy.

 

[BattleBorn]

A lot of people here seem to like the idea of the NHL holding Quebec in their pocket for a potential relocation. I propose a different scenario.

Expand into LV(pacific) and QC(central) this year or next.
Only promise Seattle the franchise as they are building their arena

If a franchise requires relocation, relocate to Seattle and play in SoDo (as they were willing to when Phoenix was going through some trouble).

* It also makes too much sense to expand a high-risk franchise paired with a low-risk franchise.

Since I've been here I thought people were more on the QC as a relocation thing since the rumored expansion fees were so high and Quebecor is already pretty deep into the whole thing monetarily.

 

[Killion]

His idea of 'the fix is in' has to do with the City/province and the league.... And, by the way, Killion, many would say the proper expression is "In like Flynn." You could google that for more of the word-play entertainment which you so enjoy.

Yes, correct assumption amongst other influential individuals involved... and dont have to
look that up MNN.... that there XXX Rated... could ding ya for it but I'll let it go this time.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

I'm suggestioning that it takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to look at the NHL rushing to grant a team to Las Vegas as a one off and talking incessantly about Seattle, when the league just happens to need two Western Conference teams teams, and then loom at the radio silence on Quebec and then come to the conclusion that the latter is getting a team. You're going yo say BUT WINNIPEG, and to that I'll say where is QC's Darren Ford? It's Nords-o-Metre? It's mainstream mentions from any hockey press? It's a totally different situation

I'm not sure if the NHL made Quebec City assurances or not. Everyone denied it at the time the arena was approved. I'm sure that if the situation arose in the east, they would be an ideal landing place.

The NHL obviously wants Florida to fix itself, and in the hypothetical situation that happens, what you are saying is true in regards to nothing being said about expanding there, but if it's true that the league wants no relocation and it's true that there are no talks are you suggesting that it'll be years and years before they get a team? Because it'll probably be 10-15 years before they go to 34 teams.

 

[danishh]

The NHL obviously wants Florida to fix itself, and in the hypothetical situation that happens, what you are saying is true in regards to nothing being said about expanding there, but if it's true that the league wants no relocation and it's true that there are no talks are you suggesting that it'll be years and years before they get a team? Because it'll probably be 10-15 years before they go to 34 teams.

I think what brodie is suggesting, something i agree with, is that quebec is there as a backup option if any eastern conference team fails in the future, but not if we're just talking about a 2-team expansion to 32 teams. It can also be used as a threat to leverage public monies for new stadiums in the east, as needed (i cant really think of any EC arenas that need replacing, other than ottawa eventually who supposedly have a plan with a real estate play).

 

[TheLegend]

Yes, correct assumption amongst other influential individuals involved... and dont have to
look that up MNN.... that there XXX Rated... could ding ya for it but I'll let it go this time.

In the spirit of the thread...

"What happens on Google, stays on Google", eh?

 

[Mosby]

May is typically the month of "Big" announcements. Wouldn't shock me at all its announced this May and all the pomp and circumstance emanating from this years Award show.

I'd say June announcement. The NHL doesn't like any focus being taken away from the playoffs. June announcement lines up with the BOG meeting, end of the season, and the Awards in LV as well.

 

[Killion]

... quebec is there as a backup option if any eastern conference team fails in the future, but not if we're just talking about a 2-team expansion to 32 teams.

Way off. Totally disagree.... and as you know danishh this threads supposed to be about Las Vegas & their aspirations. I let the window open, not the front & back door to discussion of Quebec & Seattle, and obviously tangentially and unfortunately whenever Relo raises its ugly head, Arizona & Florida. Whats clear here is that from the word go Las Vegas appears destined to win an Expansion Franchise though some Conspiracy Theorists, including Campbell of The Hockey News for eg have suggested the Coyotes might move to Nevada. I disagree with Campbell, anyone else suggesting that. That team might not move at all, good reason to stay exactly where they are.

So that leaves Florida. Broward awaiting a Consultants Report, might deal with it next Fall, maybe Spring 2016. Teams not going anywhere in the near term. Yet you (and seemingly Brodie) would have me believe that a city who's just putting the finishing touches on a state of the art arena with substantial hotel, retail & commercial development adjoining, with TVA dropping nearly a Billion Dollar$ on NHL French Language Broadcast Rights, with people like former Prime Minister of Canada Brian Mulroney lobbying the NHL on behalf of QC etc etc etc, that their "backups" to Seattle, to ANYWHERE? Are you frikin kiddin me?! Quebec City isnt anyones "backup". Their at the front of the line. Starters.

Now lets get this as close to being back on topic and all about Vegas as much as we can please. If you or anyone else wishes to discuss this whole issue of Quebec, Seattle, Relo or Expansion, weve got threads. The way this train is headed, Las Vegas, looks like, every single sign points to Foley paying the Expansion Ticket, not the Relocation Ticket. If you think the NHL Expands X1, thats fine, your opinion. I dont. I think they Expand X2 and I think that Expansion is QC. Your welcome to think its Seattle. Your call to make.