NHL possibly getting bumped for a WNBA game

[Armourboy]

I grew up watching womens basketball from the time I was a kid back in the 80's simply because we had one of the best teams in the nation at the local high school. We would watch those players move on to college and the WNBA. There was no bigger fan of womens basketball than my mom that I knew growing up and you know how many WNBA games she has watched? Maybe a couple.

This is all a blip on the radar. It may get them a bit more traction early but as the season settles in things will go back to normal. Essentially her games may draw a bit more but the rest of the league will be crickets, and they will still have issues drawing fans outside of the games she plays in.

At the end of the day the best her influence will do is get them to the point that maybe the NBA doesn't need to hand them money every season just so they can pay salaries. Even with her they are going to be doing good to be profitable over the course of a season.

Essentially ESPN is just trying to get it while the getting is good, because things will slip back into very few people caring pretty quickly.

 

[bb_fan]

I think she's going to become a major cultural force in america, tons of endorsements, a lifestyle brand basically with an atheltic wear brand making her the female Air Jordan. She's not going away if she can stay relatively healthy and effective.

She's probably more famous than every single active NHL player in America already and it's gonna grow.

like i said, if she can, good for her.

i don't see it happening though.

 

[zombie kopitar]

This is all a blip on the radar. It may get them a bit more traction early but as the season settles in things will go back to normal. Essentially her games may draw a bit more but the rest of the league will be crickets, and they will still have issues drawing fans outside of the games she plays in.

At the end of the day the best her influence will do is get them to the point that maybe the NBA doesn't need to hand them money every season just so they can pay salaries. Even with her they are going to be doing good to be profitable over the course of a season.

Essentially ESPN is just trying to get it while the getting is good, because things will slip back into very few people caring pretty quickly.

That's one outcome. The other outcome is she grows the game like Curry did to the NBA. The valuations of NBA franchises in the last 10-15years have skyrocketed, and so much can be tied back to that man. While players like Lebron and Wemby are genetic freaks who are fun to watch and also draw in views, a relatable superstar who just buries 3's and changes the pace of the game is very different from a casual viewership standpoint, because people can more realistically see themselves being that player.

She's going to be everywhere in ads, and have NBA players wearing her shoes sooner than later. It remains to be seen if she just ends up being an athlete everyone knows in a niche league/sport like the Williams sisters and Jeff Gordon, or truly grows the league

 

[tarheelhockey]

Avg TV ratings are reliable tool for networks to decide what sports they want to televise.

But that’s not where this dialogue started. You claimed that NASCAR is more popular than hockey in the United States, which is just not true.

...and we arent talking world ratings. We are talking specifically about the US markets.

And again, the way you measure either of these things goes well beyond just a “which one is more fun to watch on TV” survey. The number of people who play and watch and follow hockey dwarfs the number who play and watch and follow NASCAR. It isn’t even all that close, as demonstrated upthread.

As another measure, social media engagement is universal and free to everyone. The NHL has more than double the number of followers as NASCAR on Instagram and Twitter, about 20% more on TikTok, and something like 6 times as many website visits. Again, it’s not all that close between them.

"When people say "big 4"" is also subjective. Big 4 compared to what? College football and basketball produce much higher revenue and tv viewership in the US than hockey does.

Everyone knows what “big 4” means in this context. Absolutely nobody thinks it includes multiple types of football.

Finally, why do hockey fans care? As long as we can find the games we want to watch, I really dont care about how popular it is across the rest of the population.

I agree with you on this.

 

[joestevens29]

don't disagree that it would help if mcdavid was in boston or new york and/or won cups - but there are other ways the league could drive interest. clark wasn't playing for ucla, nor did she win a college title, let alone multiple. hockey's version of clark in connor bedard is in chicago. is he a household name?

again, trevor zegras is more widely searched than adam fox, the best american hockey player in new york city, despite the latter being a much, much better hockey player.

there is more to it than quality of player and market. i'm not going to check, but i'd bet the most searched athlete on the planet these past 3 months was travis kelce. which is of course circumstantial - there's no way to control a lot of what drives attention (ie. dating the biggest pop star in the world and having her attend your marquee games). but if a non-qb in kansas city, in a sport that is largely played in a singular country can have that much impact... there's no reason the chips can't fall in the right way for a hockey player one day.

in the meantime; could the NHL do a better job working with major brands to get players bigger endorsement deals? could they have participated in international competitions (olympics or otherwise) that would have put mcdavid on a bigger stage against matthews or ovechkin? can they start doing grassroots programs that drive interest in the sport? those are the things i'd like to see.

Hockey for decades has trained guys to be robots. Why players are even interviewed before, during or after games I'll never understand. You know the answers before the players even speak. They've been trained from a young age to just be quiet and humble.

It sure doesn't help anytime any player shows some sort of flash off the ice that there are analysts out there that rip on guys. Then you get the Zegras situation where he pulls off some pretty amazing moves and there is a group of media that hates it. So how do you grow the game when there are so many mixed signals from the people that cover the sport? If you are new to the sport you might think to yourself "geez that looked impressive", but then what are you thinking when reading or hearing that a play like that just isn't right?

But there is also a group of fans that rips on this stuff as well, so I really have no idea what some people want.

 

[joestevens29]

I am not perturbed by anything. I think it would be concerning for the NHL to fall behind another league in the American sports market given that soccer is already pretty much in the process of shooting past it.

I think the interest in Caitlin Clark is primarily an outcome of ESPN's need to push Women's March Madness given that it's a property they own - unlike the men's tournament - and one which generates interest that can then be converted to interest in the WNBA, another property ESPN owns currently.

ESPN has more and more focused on college sports in general because (1) you can always rely on Americans to be gung ho about their college affiliations (2) it's less expensive than major pro sports but can draw pretty similar numbers thanks to (1).

The WNBA rights are up soon, and ESPN is currently negotiating for them. I strongly suspect that ESPN overvalues these rights considerably and is prepared to go quite high for them. There's a history of ESPN overvaluing league sports rights and in the case of the WNBA they will have folks like yourself to back them with diversity progress mumbo jumbo ignoring the fact that hardly anyone watches regular season basketball whether it's women or men, and the women's Final Four will have much better engagement numbers than the WNBA playoffs no matter who plays in them. At some point people may notice that Caitlin Clark playing for the Indiana Fire in mostly empty arenas is nowhere near as entertaining as the drama of the NCAA tournament (which is even for men a much better event than the NBA playoffs 9 out of 10 times).

I won't deny that ESPN is pushing them, but being here in Edmonton I don't exactly follow ESPN or a ton of their analysts and I'm getting a ton of Women's basketball and Caitlin Clark being pushed onto my social media feeds the past couple months. Along with the new women's hockey league for that matter.

There are a ton of people(Edmonton/Canadian) out there with a ton of followers that are seeing just how special she is and giving her and the sport the recognition. ESPN can push all they want, but it's already reached a pile of people and ESPN knows this and will try make as much money as they can as long as they can.

Is the NHL worried? I doubt it. It's a 12 team league that operates for 5 weeks during the NHL season.

 

[Voight]

Wait, she's playing like days after being drafted?

Like a week after the NCAA season ended?

What a weird scheudle. You don't see that in men's sports.

They dont have much of a choice. Their season runs from May-September, you're already risking competition with the NFL at the tail end of the season. NBA/NHL playoffs are concurrent for the first month of the season and then they only have to compete with the MLB and to a smaller extent, MLS.

 

[Firsov99]

Is that channel still around? I remember a year or two ago watching some shit at the pub and was wondering what sports am I even watching.

Not sure. In fact, I used to think that it was a purely fictional channel (in reference to Dodgeball, the comedy). But apparently this has become a real thing

Hockey leading into chess boxing would be awesome.

I would totally watch this.

 

[Voight]

Anybody else just learn who Clark is? Lol.

Its been hard not to hear about her the last couple of weeks.

I take it you aren't on Facebook/Instagram/Twitter nor watch ESPN or Fox Sports?

 

[joelef]

Its been hard not to hear about her the last couple of weeks.

I take it you aren't on Facebook/Instagram/Twitter nor watch ESPN or Fox Sports?

It’s the typical acting stupid act .

 

[HolyCrap]

Its been hard not to hear about her the last couple of weeks.

I take it you aren't on Facebook/Instagram/Twitter nor watch ESPN or Fox Sports?

I’m not. But funny thing is I heard about her today listening to nhl channel on Sirius Xm. And seen a thing about her on a sports channel at dinner. So I’m up to speed and not living under a rock anymore. Lol.

 

[StreetHawk]

They dont have much of a choice. Their season runs from May-September, you're already risking competition with the NFL at the tail end of the season. NBA/NHL playoffs are concurrent for the first month of the season and then they only have to compete with the MLB and to a smaller extent, MLS.

Yeah, unfortunately for the WNBA, they needed to find a timeframe that enabled them to 1) have access to these indoor arenas and 2) a chance to be on TV with less competition. Only 8 teams will remain in NHL and NBA playoffs in early May, so reduces the chance of overlap.

 

[StreetHawk]

The WNBA rights are up soon, and ESPN is currently negotiating for them. I strongly suspect that ESPN overvalues these rights considerably and is prepared to go quite high for them. There's a history of ESPN overvaluing league sports rights and in the case of the WNBA they will have folks like yourself to back them with diversity progress mumbo jumbo ignoring the fact that hardly anyone watches regular season basketball whether it's women or men, and the women's Final Four will have much better engagement numbers than the WNBA playoffs no matter who plays in them. At some point people may notice that Caitlin Clark playing for the Indiana Fire in mostly empty arenas is nowhere near as entertaining as the drama of the NCAA tournament (which is even for men a much better event than the NBA playoffs 9 out of 10 times).

ESPN is poorly run IMO. Waste a lot of money on poor hiring/talent decisions. They have had massive layoffs in 2017 and 2020 and another smaller one in 2023. Figured that they would have learned to not hand out long term contracts to anyone that isn't a needle mover, yet, there is a constant line of disgruntled people that for the life of me, I don't get why ESPN felt the need to extend a contract to with all of their layoffs these past few years.
Should not overvalue the WNBA. It's not Women's NCAA BB.

NCAA WBB works because there is a passionate fanbase for the school. Don't get that same passion in the WNBA markets, as it's just not the same.

 

[jkrdevil]

It’s not getting bumped. NHL deal contractually calls for games to be on ESPN and given the ESPN wasn’t accommodating when it came to a Game 7 and Sunday Night Baseball last year I doubt the league would be accommodating to ESPN and agree.

 

[Jussi]

100%, absolutely no disagreements there. i posted on an earlier page how the nhl still beats the wnba on most metrics.

but the US media has made clark a star and as a result her debut game may push an nhl playoff game.

why hasn't the US media decided any NHL players are celebrities?

Did the US media make her break the all-time college scoring record, men's and women's?

 

[FMichael]

Caitlin Clark's WNBA debut game throws ESPN's NHL Playoffs coverage into chaos


What a joke of a “ major “ league. This how mcdavid debut should’ve been treated . I don’t know how out of touch head in sand the nhl can be.

 

[crazychimp]

The NHL isn’t growing at the pace it should because it’s run by the elderly.

https://x.com/worldhockeyrpt/status/1669188164005552132?s=46&t=nrvgV-r6XiLaSQ7S0nI8iA

 

[BMacLeafs]

I think it's great that the WNBA is growing and it will raise the profile of the womxn's game, but it makes me sick that it was Caitlin Clark who did it. We all kno the truth: if Ms. Clark weren't a "clean" white girl acceptabel 2 middle Murica, they wud ignore the sport al2gther. They found their white saviour and are running with her. Th whole thing reeks of racism and misogyny.

 

[vancityluongo]

Did the US media make her break the all-time college scoring record, men's and women's?

i'm not discrediting her in the slightest. she rules and i'm thrilled to see women's sports advancing. she is going to stay a household name well beyond her college career.

but the US media point is still notable. is the US media picking up on ovechkin approaching the goals record? have they picked up on mcdavid and kucherov for 100 assists? matthews for 70?

there are storylines in the NHL - this has been a crazy exciting season. we just had a f***ing 4-way tie for the final wild card spot in the east yesterday. why doesn't anyone outside of hfboards.com seem to care?

the league simply doesn't get how to tell their story

 

[Chips]

This is no hate, but can someone explain how she’s so popular? Is it literally just the sport or is she present on social media and other places that I’ve just not noticed?


Has she displaced more personality than I’ve noticed? It’s not a knock I know the internet is huge, but ive only seen games and post game interviews of her and people always say NHL players issue with marketing is nobody knows who they are as people

 

[BB79]

Fanatics is in charge of production for MLB uniforms, even though they're still officially Nike uniforms.

I don't follow MLB closely, but it seems to have been a disaster even if it's not clear where exactly to assign the blame - baseball pants are tearing on slides...



...and are see-thru...



...sweat seeps through the jerseys...



...and the new design with smaller names/numbers has just been awful - plus the quality has gone way down with iron on patches versus sewn-in.


View attachment 853848

So the hugely popular MLB is having major issues with their jerseys/uniforms as well.

Haha, I was watching some MLB highlights the other day and couldn't believe how terrible these new uniforms are. See through pants, ridiculously tiny letters/numbers. I thought I was seeing things at first.

Can't wait for those new NHL jerseys next season. You'll be able to tell what brand shoulder and elbow pads every player in the league wears now

 

[joelef]

Haha, I was watching some MLB highlights the other day and couldn't believe how terrible these new uniforms are. See through pants, ridiculously tiny letters/numbers. I thought I was seeing things at first.

Can't wait for those new NHL jerseys next season. You'll be able to tell what brand shoulder and elbow pads every player in the league wears now

We won’t have to worry ads in the jerseys at least since they will off

 

[BMacLeafs]

This is no hate, but can someone explain how she’s so popular? Is it literally just the sport or is she present on social media and other places that I’ve just not noticed?

The media props her up b/c she's a white girl succeding in a predominantly Black sport and is acceptable to mainstream Murica.

 

[muzion]

ESPN is poorly run IMO. Waste a lot of money on poor hiring/talent decisions. They have had massive layoffs in 2017 and 2020 and another smaller one in 2023. Figured that they would have learned to not hand out long term contracts to anyone that isn't a needle mover, yet, there is a constant line of disgruntled people that for the life of me, I don't get why ESPN felt the need to extend a contract to with all of their layoffs these past few years.
Should not overvalue the WNBA. It's not Women's NCAA BB.

NCAA WBB works because there is a passionate fanbase for the school. Don't get that same passion in the WNBA markets, as it's just not the same.

Adam Silver, the commissioner of the NBA, has talked about what is the biggest problem of the WNBA. It attracts men over the age of 60 years old, because professional women's basketball resembles how the game used to be played in the 70s stylistically, families, and the LGBTQ. The biggest issue was that they are unknown to their peers, thus were not able to grow the game... Now that multiple women have become recognizable in the last few years, the tides are changing, so the opportunity is there to grow revenue. They are generating a ton of discussion, and are now part of the cultural fabric, so the sky is the limit from here on in.

 

[BMacLeafs]

Haha, I was watching some MLB highlights the other day and couldn't believe how terrible these new uniforms are. See through pants, ridiculously tiny letters/numbers. I thought I was seeing things at first.

Can't wait for those new NHL jerseys next season. You'll be able to tell what brand shoulder and elbow pads every player in the league wears now

Yeah, Fanatics really dropped the ball on their MLB uniforms. No doubt they'll b even worse 4 the NHL. Nike should of done the rpoduction themselves instead of licensing there name 2 a crap company.