NHL offers two more salary cap proposals

[kolanos]

well, only for about 1/3 of the league. the middle third can compete but want concessions from the union, and the bottom 1/3 need the rich teams to share revenue.

That's not true, but it is also not the NHLPA's concern. If it is then they've got bigger problems than just paranoid delusions.

The reason why the bottom 1/3rd are hurting is because they cannot compete. You cannot fill seats without icing a competitive product. Evening the playing field for the entire league is the real solution. Revenue sharing is only a band-aid that will make things worse in the long run. If a team cannot compete with an even footing with the rest of the league, they simply cannot compete period.

 

[Hawker14]

That's not true, but it is also not the NHLPA's concern. If it is then they've got bigger problems than just paranoid delusions.

The reason why the bottom 1/3rd are hurting is because they cannot compete. You cannot fill seats without icing a competitive product. Evening the playing field for the entire league is the real solution. Revenue sharing is only a band-aid that will make things worse in the long run. If a team cannot compete with an even footing with the rest of the league, they simply cannot compete period.

revenue sharing is a band-aid ?

i'm speechless. i've finally seen the lowest denominator.

yeah, go owners !!! woo hoo

 

[kolanos]

revenue sharing is a band-aid ?

i'm speechless. i've finally seen the lowest denominator.

yeah, go owners !!! woo hoo

Your version of revenue sharing (among the owners) atleast is nothing more than a band-aid, a subsidy, a penalty for success and a reward for failure.

Linkage is the way to go. Hopefully the PA comes around to figuring this out. Call me pro-owner all you like, but I consider myself pro-logic in terms of this CBA negotiation. Nothing the PA has done to date can be characterized as logical, they simply refuse to help themselves.

 

[Hawker14]

Your version of revenue sharing (among the owners) atleast is nothing more than a band-aid, a subsidy, a penalty for success and a reward for failure.

Linkage is the way to go. Hopefully the PA comes around to figuring this out. Call me pro-owner all you like, but I consider myself pro-logic in terms of this CBA negotiation. Nothing the PA has done to date can be characterized as logical, they simply refuse to help themselves.

please explain as to how my version of splitting up $ 2.1 billion in revenues, between 30 teams, amounting to $ 70 million each, is a band-aid ?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Your version of revenue sharing (among the owners) atleast is nothing more than a band-aid, a subsidy, a penalty for success and a reward for failure.

Linkage is the way to go. Hopefully the PA comes around to figuring this out. Call me pro-owner all you like, but I consider myself pro-logic in terms of this CBA negotiation. Nothing the PA has done to date can be characterized as logical, they simply refuse to help themselves.

linkage with revenue sharing the way to go...that way everyone has a chance to sign big free agents

 

[Hawker14]

linkage with revenue sharing the way to go...that way everyone has a chance to sign big free agents

i've never said anything different. call it linkage, call it a salary cap, but it will only work with revenue sharing. if the owners equally split up "their" $2.1 billion pie equally ... $ 70 million each, then a $ 45 million salary cap works for the union ... and the fans have hockey back

and yeah, when all the owners have the same money to spend, does the salary cap magnet apply !!! sorry bettman you lying liar. go back to basketball and screw up their finances you boob

 

[kolanos]

please explain as to how my version of splitting up $ 2.1 billion in revenues, between 30 teams, amounting to $ 70 million each, is a band-aid ?

For starters, there is no motivation for teams to earn more than the average. In fact, it motivates them to earn considerably less than the average as their earnings will only reflect 1/30th of the average.

Additionally, strong markets earning more than the average will be penalized for their success, and teams earning less than the average will be rewarded.

In other words, it breeds complacency.

It really is quite simple.

 

[Hawker14]

For starters, there is no motivation for teams to earn more than the average. In fact, it motivates them to earn considerably less than the average as their earnings will only reflect 1/30th of the average.

Additionally, strong markets earning more than the average will be penalized for their success, and teams earning less than the average will be rewarded.

In other words, it breeds complacency.

It really is quite simple.

like the nfl then ... a dying and non-competitive league ? (where all teams are profitable !)

 

[kolanos]

like the nfl then

The NFL doesn take gross revenues for the entire league and split it up evenly among the teams.

 

[Hawker14]

The NFL doesn take gross revenues for the entire league and split it up evenly among the teams.

but the nfl isn't a gate driven league.

 

[shakes]

For starters, there is no motivation for teams to earn more than the average. In fact, it motivates them to earn considerably less than the average as their earnings will only reflect 1/30th of the average.

Additionally, strong markets earning more than the average will be penalized for their success, and teams earning less than the average will be rewarded.

In other words, it breeds complacency.

It really is quite simple.

You really ought to quit while you are so behind.

This is absolutely stunning.

 

[Scoogs]

kolanos, can you define revenue sharing for me?

 

[kolanos]

You really ought to quit while you are so behind.

This is absolutely stunning.

Wow, nice rebuttal. You sure showed me.

 

[Hawker14]

Wow, nice rebuttal. You sure showed me.

yeah he did !!!!!

 

[shakes]

Wow, nice rebuttal. You sure showed me.

I didnt feel I needed to.. hawker14 is doing a fine job.

 

[kolanos]

kolanos, can you define revenue sharing for me?

Happy to, but first you'll need to clarify whether you mean owner-to-owner revenue sharing or owner-to-player revenue sharing.

 

[Hawker14]

i'm intrigued of your views on both

 

[kolanos]

but the nfl isn't a gate driven league.

That's only true in terms of their revenue sharing system (the exclusion of stadium revenues and such). But what's your point? (so that I don't have to make any assumptions here)

 

[kolanos]

I didnt feel I needed to.. hawker14 is doing a fine job.

Well, if ad hominem responses are your definition of a winning debate strategy then you truly are an HFer!

(note the use of ad hom for irony's sake)

 

[kolanos]

i'm intrigued of your views on both

Well I've already explained in depth how linkage (if done properly) can be an effective owner-to-player revenue sharing model -- and that it can have positive effects in terms of owner-to-owner financial and competitive disparity.

 

[Hawker14]

Well I've already explained in depth how linkage (if done properly) can be an effective owner-to-player revenue sharing model -- and that it can have positive effects in terms of owner-to-owner financial and competitive disparity.

yeah, linkage is going to narrow the gap between the rangers and panthers !!!

i'm interested however to read how you expand this inane argument so that linkage does work for small market teams.

please expand, as i haven't read a valid argument yet regarding your position.

 

[djhn579]

really ? the nhl had talks with players without their union representatives present ?

three words ... bad faith bargaining

further, do you not think the owners $ 37.5 million salary cap offer doesn't frustrate negotiations ?

Please show me some documentation that proves that a union employee talking to a member of management constitutes bad faith bargaining. I believe it could be if the goal was to circumvent the union, but I don't believe that is the case here.

Just because the NHL offers something that you don't like, that does not mean there are not valid reasons for the NHL to make that offer. And the criteria in the link I posted clearly shows that the NHL can make a regressive offer.

 

[Hawker14]

Please show me some documentation that proves that a union employee talking to a member of management constitutes bad faith bargaining. I believe it could be if the goal was to circumvent the union, but I don't believe that is the case here.

Just because the NHL offers something that you don't like, that does not mean there are not valid reasons for the NHL to make that offer. And the criteria in the link I posted clearly shows that the NHL can make a regressive offer.

if there is any factual evidence of the nhl speaking/negotiating with any members of the nhlpa other than the nhlpa negotiating committee, then that is bad faith negotiating. the nhlpa is a legally certified union, and the nhl negotiating with anyone other than their negotiating committee is bad faith.

 

[kolanos]

yeah, linkage is going to narrow the gap between the rangers and panthers !!!

Are you disputing this? When everything you post hints of sarcasm you really become incoherent.

i'm interested however to read how you expand this inane argument so that linkage does work for small market teams.

please expand, as i haven't read a valid argument yet regarding your position.

Before I have to reiterate what I've already covered in this thread, how about you start by pointing out what you feel is invalid in my response to your "Huh?" post. Then we can start from there. OK?

 

[djhn579]

if there is any factual evidence of the nhl speaking/negotiating with any members of the nhlpa other than the nhlpa negotiating committee, then that is bad faith negotiating. the nhlpa is a legally certified union, and the nhl negotiating with anyone other than their negotiating committee is bad faith.

PROOF?

Do you have any proof that a member of management talking to a player or vice versa is negotiating in bad faith? A link to a legal case where this was the judgement would be great! You say this as so matter of fact, I would think you could produce the proof very quickly...