Buffaloed
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Get back to the original topic ( NHL files unfair labor practice against NHLPA to NLRB) now please. The issue of replacement players is discussed in other threads. It's gone far enough in this thread.
All he was trying to point out was that the Flames were able to draw 15,000 fans to a team with not very good players in response to people who said no one would want to watch replacements.The Messenger said:All right I phrase it this way for you ..
How many years ago now has it been since the flames had a 2nd line of Chris Clark, Clarke Wilm and Jeff Shantz.??
If you check up you will see the Wilm and Shantz have not been Flames for at least 3 full years already ... at the time the Flames where in the midst of that 7 year missing the Playoff Drought ..when they last it did employ that line ..
So not sure that is a pleasant memory for a Flames fan .. or why it should be used as a good thing as your example here ..
Splatman Phanutier said:Huh? I have no idea what your trying to say.
Can you rephrase that in a more grammically-correct setense so its at least partially understandable?
Actually, it was to The Messenger who seems to have deleted his posts.shveik said:I am going to assume you are talking to me. Worst case, I end up repeating myself.
pepty said:The most interesting thing about this move is the timing.Why was this done,and the draft cancelled, just as the Players Association was about to present their counter offer?Does it seem likely that it was because the NHL wanted to come to an honourable settlerment with the PA?
I think its pretty clear that the NHL is not bargainng in good faith and never planned to have a season this year,especially considering the fact that some of the owners who are driving this process had so few players signed that they would have been hard pressed to ice a team if, despite their best efforts, the season had been saved.
Going with replcement players is a very risky move and will leave the job only half done and rinks around the league half empty.Perhps the NHL feels that fans are so angry at the players and their big salaries that the NHL will allways have a free ride in public opinion. That seems to be the case so far,but it doesnt mean those same fans will buy up seasons tickets to watch replacement players.
Both sides have inexplicably backed away when a deal seemed imminent. Perhaps both Bettman and Goodenow have promised absolute victory to their respective sides,something that they haven't been able to deliver, but, having come this far and inflicting such damage on the game, feel they cant go back.
For both men their careers and reputations are on the line,not just the jobs they presently hold.Would even the NBA rehire Bettman now as he is blamed by sports and business publications alike for his disastrous mishandling of this labour dispute?
The only thing that will save his career at the point is complete victory. That is what he seems determined to deliver,even if the NHL is ruined for a generation.
pepty said:The most interesting thing about this move is the timing.Why was this done,and the draft cancelled, just as the Players Association was about to present their counter offer?Does it seem likely that it was because the NHL wanted to come to an honourable settlerment with the PA?
I think its pretty clear that the NHL is not bargainng in good faith and never planned to have a season this year,especially considering the fact that some of the owners who are driving this process had so few players signed that they would have been hard pressed to ice a team if, despite their best efforts, the season had been saved.
Going with replcement players is a very risky move and will leave the job only half done and rinks around the league half empty.Perhps the NHL feels that fans are so angry at the players and their big salaries that the NHL will allways have a free ride in public opinion. That seems to be the case so far,but it doesnt mean those same fans will buy up seasons tickets to watch replacement players.
Both sides have inexplicably backed away when a deal seemed imminent. Perhaps both Bettman and Goodenow have promised absolute victory to their respective sides,something that they haven't been able to deliver, but, having come this far and inflicting such damage on the game, feel they cant go back.
For both men their careers and reputations are on the line,not just the jobs they presently hold.Would even the NBA rehire Bettman now as he is blamed by sports and business publications alike for his disastrous mishandling of this labour dispute?
The only thing that will save his career at the point is complete victory. That is what he seems determined to deliver,even if the NHL is ruined for a generation.
Goodenow said the NHLPA doesn't have a policy regarding agents whose clients might choose to become replacement players in September.Thunderstruck said:Yet another masterful turn of the screw by Bettman.
I loved the fact that they got an agent to mention the threat of the second filing re: decertification of agents. It points out to the PA that this will come down the pipe if the PA continues to strong arm the agents and shows the players the natural conflict of interest between the PA and the agents.
In this game of hardball, Bettman is taking Goodenow to the cleaners.
Hope the PA executive enjoyed their stay at Pebble Beach. Things are about to get a whole lot more difficult in their lives.
You were talking about events that occurred in the 2001 season and are not relevant to the discussion in this thread regarding the Complaint the NHL has filed with the NLRB.Splatman Phanutier said:Actually, it was to The Messenger who seems to have deleted his posts.
shveik said:"We will hire you if you quit the union?" I would not be surprised if there are already plenty of cases declaring this tactic an unfair labor practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smail
I've heard that players without a contract could probably get out of the NHLPA and become replacement players as well. This would have to be clarified in court though, but it's certainly something the NHL owners have thought about.
kdb209 said:Search these threads for Schenk Meat Packing - the NLRB has already ruled on this.
If you are locked out, you cannot get around the lockout by quitting the union. The mere fact that an employer was willing to hire an ex-union member as a replacement was ruled an unfair labor practice - an inducement to a worker to quit the union.
pepty said:The most interesting thing about this move is the timing.Why was this done,and the draft cancelled, just as the Players Association was about to present their counter offer?
Smail said:Hockey isn't a meat packing factory though. Take Irbe, why is he a member of the union? After all, he's not an NHL player and when play resumes he sure won't receive any contract offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209
Search these threads for Schenk Meat Packing - the NLRB has already ruled on this.
If you are locked out, you cannot get around the lockout by quitting the union. The mere fact that an employer was willing to hire an ex-union member as a replacement was ruled an unfair labor practice - an inducement to a worker to quit the union.
In the ECHL, there is a union. Is Scott Gomez a member of the ECHL union since he plays there? Why would he be more an NHL union member than an ECHL union member?
The point is, players could argue that they should not be in the players union for various reasons, including the fact they don't have a contract (which means NHL could resume and they could still be out of a job), that they played in another league, etc.
We conclude, therefore, that an unavoidable effect and, hence, unstated purpose of the lockout was to discourage unit employees' membership in the Union by denying employment to those who maintained that status. Accordingly, the Respondent's conduct violated Section 8(a)(3) and (1), as alleged in the complaint.
as much as it screw over the owners on the replacement player issue, it also screw over some nhlpa members. if the nhl goes the replacement player route and are willing to offer 800k (for example) average salary, im sure most fringe players will take it, but they cant because of this rule and are forced to remain lockout/strike with the other wealthier players who dont need the money. it is a lose-lose situation. all the more reason for both side to make a reasonable deal.kdb209 said:Search these threads for Schenk Meat Packing - the NLRB has already ruled on this.
If you are locked out, you cannot get around the lockout by quitting the union. The mere fact that an employer was willing to hire an ex-union member as a replacement was ruled an unfair labor practice - an inducement to a worker to quit the union.
SuperKarateMonkey said:as much as it screw over the owners on the replacement player issue, it also screw over some nhlpa members. if the nhl goes the replacement player route and are willing to offer 800k (for example) average salary, im sure most fringe players will take it, but they cant because of this rule and are forced to remain lockout/strike with the other wealthier players who dont need the money. it is a lose-lose situation. all the more reason for both side to make a reasonable deal.Originally Posted by kdb209
Search these threads for Schenk Meat Packing - the NLRB has already ruled on this.
If you are locked out, you cannot get around the lockout by quitting the union. The mere fact that an employer was willing to hire an ex-union member as a replacement was ruled an unfair labor practice - an inducement to a worker to quit the union.
kdb209 said:Search these threads for Schenk Meat Packing - the NLRB has already ruled on this.
If you are locked out, you cannot get around the lockout by quitting the union. The mere fact that an employer was willing to hire an ex-union member as a replacement was ruled an unfair labor practice - an inducement to a worker to quit the union.