Next season: what this team should look like

[Hunn]

Right now, according to capfriendly.com, there are 45 players under Standard Player Contract with the Islanders:

F: 14 signed beyond this season + 5 RFA + 5 UFA = 24
D: 7 + 4 + 5 = 16
G: 2 + 0 + 3 = 5

I try to subdivide them into 3 groups:

– Players I would like to retain,
– Players I would like to trade or (in case of UFA) I'm fine with them gone,
– Players I don't care much about or (especially in case of minors) I don't know much about.

Click to read more...

 

[Hunn]

UFA

UFA Resigned:

F: Tavares
D: –
G: Gibson

UFA Gone:

F: Kulemin
D: De Haan, Hickey, Seidenberg
G: Halak

UFA Don't care / Don't know:

F: Gionta, Jones, Wagner
D: Helgeson, Lafranchise
G: Gudlevskis

Comments.

Obviously, I would like to resign Tavares. He's no Crosby of course, but he's still the best player we have. Moreover, I'd say he's still our best player by far – in spite of his cold streaks and the emergence of Barzal.

Saying that, I have to admit that if he walks I won't be on that proverbial suicide watch. Boston survived departure of their best player and "the face of the franchise" quite well, we will survive too.

Gibson is relatively young by goalies standards. I would like to retain him to see whether he's yet another backup, a bust, or a diamond in the rough. Jury is still out on him. Besides, he's cheap.

And yes, I know that him and Gudlevskis are of the same age. The difference is I've seen enough of Gudlevskis to judge him as a career minor leaguer.

Hickey, Kulemin, and Seidenberg are not worth to retain. De Haan and Halak are most probably gone by themselves.

As a side note, I think that Halak will get a starting job and very nice numbers with his new team.

Other UFA are fringe NHLers, easily replaceable from within or by the market.

 

[Hunn]

RFA

RFA Retained:

F: Johnston
D: Pulock, Toews
G: –

RFA Trade chips:

F: Nelson
D: –
G: –

RFA Don't care / Don't know:

F: Prince, Quine, Schempp
D: Burroughs, Davidson
G: –

Comments.

I like Johnston, he's perfect 4th liner. He's cheap.

Pulock is the only young defenseman in NYI system capable of top-4 duties right now. If there is a defenseman to retain from this trainwreck of Weight's "defense" – it's him.

Toews is highly praised by those who pay close attention to minors (including Snow), so I go with the majority.

Now we turn to our best trade asset: Brock Nelson. In my opinion, he is among those unfortunate players good enough to play in NHL, but not good enough offensively for top-6 and not good enough defensively for bottom-6. Still he is consistent 20-goals scorer, there must be a market for him. He should be shopped aggressively in the offseason.

Davidson, Prince, Quine, are inconsequential. Burroughs, Schempp, I don't know much, but it seems they are not mistaken for future all-stars.

 

[Hunn]

Under Contract

Core:

F: Bailey, Barzal, Beauvillier, Cizikas, Eberle, Ho-Sang, Lee
D: Aho, Boychuk, Mayfield
G: –

Trade chips:

F: Clutterbuck, Dal Colle, Ladd
D: Leddy, Pelech, Vande Sompel, Wotherspoon
G: Greiss

Don't care / Don't know:

F: Bernier, Eansor, Fritz, Stevens
D: –
G: McAdam

Comments.

Bailey is signed forever for cheap. He will finish his career as the greatest Islander at this side of the dynasty.

Barzal is the future: he is our Matthews-Laine-McDavid.

I'm impressed with the development of Beau this year. He's already a serviceable middle-6. I don't want him traded unless in a package for something irresistible.

Eberle is probably the only one Islander this season I can't really complain about. Both him and Lee are perfect top-6 wingers. With shrewd management we can retain them both.

Cizikas is harder to defend because of his contract, not his play. Nevertheless, the cap keeps going up, Seattle is coming, by the end of his contract it won't cost much percentage-wise. At least no one can question his work ethics.

And then there is Ho-Sang, the opposite of Cizikas in all respects, from talent to work ethics. Still believe he is part of the solution though.

About Boychuk: unless we draft Dahlin (and he delivers), or trade for Karlsson/Doughty, or Pulock emerges – Boychuk is our best defenseman. He won't be on a first pair for 2/3 of the league, but this is what we have right now.

Aho and Mayfield are fillers at this stage in their careers. Both have upside.

Among 8 "trade chips" I put above, I can't really count Vande Sompel and Wotherspoon because, I repeat, I don't follow minors. They are there only as possible sweeteners in a trade to get big fish.

Dal Colle is a high draft pick of Snow, we know how it goes. Whether it will be Nino-type deal or Griffin-type one is anyone's guess.

There are 5 players I would like to get rid of – 3 of them are no-brainers: Clutter, Greiss, and Ladd. They are the real anchors: given their age I'm highly doubtful they can improve in the upcoming seasons versus their contracts. Unfortunately, there is nothing to do with that.

Then there are 2 controversial picks: Leddy and Pelech.

Leddy is very good offensive defenseman who can thrive playing for a defensively responsible team. Unfortunately, the Isles are not among those teams, and given the disbalance in talent between our forwards and our defensemen, they won't be in a foreseeable future.

Who makes defense defensively responsible? Apart from coaches, defensively responsible defensemen make defense defensively responsible – sorry for this tautology.

Apart from Boychuk and De Haan we have no one, absolutely no one. On the other side, we have Leddy and Pulock as offensive defensemen, plus Mayfield trying to join offense despite his limited abilities, and Hickey consistently trying to impersonate Bobby Orr with consistently the same results.

I'm inclined to advertise Leddy actively.

As about Pelech, he's very limited untalented bottom pair defenseman, who, in due time, will fall behind Pulock (already happened), and then Aho, Mayfield, and Toews. So, trade him high, now.

 

[redbull]

here's the problem.

losing Kulemin and Hickey
AND
resigning Tavares and deHaan and Halak (approx 20MM) and re-signing Pulock, Nelson (another $4-5MM) brings the Isles to the cap.
AND
there's no more money to re-sign Lee or Eberle (without a raise), or Barzal, Beauvilier

Replacing deHaan/Halak with equivalent type players is negligible, if going via the UFA route. Maybe we deal Nelson for an equivalent RFA dman, again, giving up something (small) to get something small. The only player who has the potential to make an impact (over this year) is Ho-Sang (big IFFFF), possibly Toews? Soderstrom? not likely.

So we're a cap team, essentially the same as we are this year.

Say we replace deHaan with John Carlson and we have no injuries, are we significantly better? I don't think so.

Tough to sign JT (and give Barzal his raise) and still get better. I just don't see enough potential on this roster, where improvement will come from.

Real dilemma. I've looked at the uninspiring UFA market and the expected price-tag - that's some high-risk Ladd-like, Okposo-like prices for the good players (not great) and a lot of better-be-careful with the others.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Ladd, Clutterbuck, Greiss, Boychuk and Cizikas absolutely kill us

 

[redbull]

here's a visual, with Raanta instead of Halak, this is a $75MM team folks.

I'd deal Nelson for a few pucks, frankly I'd re-sign Kulemin instead but we can probably get a cheaper Kulemin in Wagner/Fritz - like we could have had a much cheaper Cizikas/Clutterbuck (thanks Garth)

We can play with the fringe players all we want (Halak/Raanta) or Frtiz/Quine/Prince/MDC/Wagner - but does anyone see a playoff team or any HOPE for a contender? And then consider Lee will get a huge raise, Eberle maybe around the same money, Barzal will make a small fortune on his next deal. Beau will get more.

The enormous cap graveyards of Ladd, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Boychuk, in goal, and the money Tavares will warrant just don't make sense if you're planning to build a championship team.

The irony in all this, Tavares wll do the Isles a favour if he walks, because we can't win with him at $11MM.....and we can't trade him....so it'll force a re-build under (HOPEFULLY) a new GM - which will bring some serious pain for a few more years (at least).

 

[Duanesutter12]

What a waste of a year this was for Ho Sang! Imagine if we just stuck through his bonehead plays and let him develop like we did with Beau and Pulock. Those two are playing great hockey right now and have still just scratched the surface of their potential. I know, I know, he's a head case and blah blah blah. I call BS! He was handled poorly by Weight and it has set this team back.

 

[Duanesutter12]

Unfortunately what you say makes too much sense. If we sign JT how are we going to be able to fit in extra pieces for a team that didn't make the playoffs this year? The bad contracts are a killer in that not one of them is remotely worth what they are being paid. Perhaps a creative GM could come in and make some trades to free up space but I will say this..... Garth needs to be let go the first day after the season. No way do I want him to have any part of the decision making process on how to get out of this mess. We need a fresh pair of eyes that can come in and overhaul the situation.

here's a visual, with Raanta instead of Halak, this is a $75MM team folks.

I'd deal Nelson for a few pucks, frankly I'd re-sign Kulemin instead but we can probably get a cheaper Kulemin in Wagner/Fritz - like we could have had a much cheaper Cizikas/Clutterbuck (thanks Garth)

We can play with the fringe players all we want (Halak/Raanta) or Frtiz/Quine/Prince/MDC/Wagner - but does anyone see a playoff team or any HOPE for a contender? And then consider Lee will get a huge raise, Eberle maybe around the same money, Barzal will make a small fortune on his next deal. Beau will get more.

The enormous cap graveyards of Ladd, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Boychuk, in goal, and the money Tavares will warrant just don't make sense if you're planning to build a championship team.

The irony in all this, Tavares wll do the Isles a favour if he walks, because we can't win with him at $11MM.....and we can't trade him....so it'll force a re-build under (HOPEFULLY) a new GM - which will bring some serious pain for a few more years (at least).

 

[Lek]

Definitely have to move Nelson.

Moving Leddy is interesting....depends what you get in return....I would listen for sure if we could move him for a more defensive oriented playing D...or if they take a Cal contract with it. I do think Pulock and Pelech will be solid players. No clue on how Aho will pan out.

DeHaan situation sucks as he is not worth the 5mil or more, nor could you trade him this year due to the injury...have to let him walk for anything more than 3.5, and that number is unrealistic.

Have no idea who would take Clutter, but I would try to move him...even for nothing.....need that cash... I do still like him, but we have players who can replace his on ice time at this point. Just a move that needs to be made and a contract that did not. Short sighted sign by Snow.

Ladd...well...have to hope he has a better year?...lol....and really, I think he just might.....ok...i hope he just might.

Tavares....this one is interesting to me. Speaking strictly monetarily...this team cannot afford to keep him unless we move Ladd, Cal and Dehaan and i do not see that all happening. I really think you needed to move him and that a daring GM might just have done that in the off season given where our salaries are and what it will take to sign him and the assets you could have gotten for him. Would not have been a popular move, but a necessary one. I actually do not see anyone being able to keep players for 10mil + at this time, and remain competitive for more than two or so years. Maybe in another few years, but now?...cap just too tight to keep players with these type of paid players.

Oh well..nothing will really matter if major changes are not made office side.

 

[islesfan66]

Ladd, Clutterbuck, Greiss, Boychuk and Cizikas absolutely kill us

I'm wondering If/When someone is going to be bought out

 

[Joedoggy]

With all the moves that have been made to this team personel wise...there is still NO glue guy.

Get your glue guy back move out Ladd and your in the P/O again...You do remember the Playoffs right? Don't make this move and you will be out of P/O action for 2 more years. By that time the whole team will need revamping. Fix whats broken NOW(July1)

Spend too much on Tavaras and you cannot field a winner in the future. He can be signed but there is no sign from management to fix past mistakes..Highly likely they will continue to bring in everyone elses hand-me -downs.

 

[redbull]

Definitely have to move Nelson.

Moving Leddy is interesting....depends what you get in return....I would listen for sure if we could move him for a more defensive oriented playing D...or if they take a Cal contract with it. I do think Pulock and Pelech will be solid players. No clue on how Aho will pan out.

DeHaan situation sucks as he is not worth the 5mil or more, nor could you trade him this year due to the injury...have to let him walk for anything more than 3.5, and that number is unrealistic.

Have no idea who would take Clutter, but I would try to move him...even for nothing.....need that cash... I do still like him, but we have players who can replace his on ice time at this point. Just a move that needs to be made and a contract that did not. Short sighted sign by Snow.

Ladd...well...have to hope he has a better year?...lol....and really, I think he just might.....ok...i hope he just might.

Tavares....this one is interesting to me. Speaking strictly monetarily...this team cannot afford to keep him unless we move Ladd, Cal and Dehaan and i do not see that all happening. I really think you needed to move him and that a daring GM might just have done that in the off season given where our salaries are and what it will take to sign him and the assets you could have gotten for him. Would not have been a popular move, but a necessary one. I actually do not see anyone being able to keep players for 10mil + at this time, and remain competitive for more than two or so years. Maybe in another few years, but now?...cap just too tight to keep players with these type of paid players.

Oh well..nothing will really matter if major changes are not made office side.

Lek, happy Wednesday - but here are some MORE issue with this mess.

Say they trade Leddy. Not likely they'll get a better Leddy back, if all goes PERFECTLY and we don't pull a Nino-Clutter deal, say we get a young dman with promise, say Liljegrin or Dermott from Toronto...well, that makes the team far worse.

So Leddy had a tough season. He's been set-up to fail, playing big minutes against top players with inadequate defense partners. Bringing in a Doughty would allow all dmen to move down the lineup, where they are better suited. 2-3 such players is a win-win for EVERY player. But there's no way we're getting a Doughty, so moving guys UP into the lineup (the reason why we sucked so much this year) will just lead to a further downward spiral.

We can't just salary-dump or buy players out or take on bad salaries.

The team still needs to play and the players cannot develop if they aren't in situations where they CAN develop.

I don't hate Pelech or Mayfield or Pulock - but they cannot succeed playing the minutes they do. Pelech is a terrible skater, as is Pulock, both are terrible defensively, but having them out there against top forward groups, for 17-20 or 20+ minutes is a disaster.

I believe Pulock will be a very good defenseman once he gets used to the speed and adjusts to the NHL - but this year, all the dmen look terrible. It's a simple as losing Hamonic, deHaan and Boychuk (who's seen better days) - these guys were good players and ate up big minutes and allowed others to be slotted better.

We can't fire-sale, we can't bring in UFAs, if we re-sign players we have to pray that everything magical happens (career years for most, development of Ho-Sang, Pulock, Pelech, in GOAL AND no injuries) - AND THEN, maybe, we make the playoffs. How sad is that?!?

 

[SI]

here's a visual, with Raanta instead of Halak, this is a $75MM team folks.

I'd deal Nelson for a few pucks, frankly I'd re-sign Kulemin instead but we can probably get a cheaper Kulemin in Wagner/Fritz - like we could have had a much cheaper Cizikas/Clutterbuck (thanks Garth)

We can play with the fringe players all we want (Halak/Raanta) or Frtiz/Quine/Prince/MDC/Wagner - but does anyone see a playoff team or any HOPE for a contender? And then consider Lee will get a huge raise, Eberle maybe around the same money, Barzal will make a small fortune on his next deal. Beau will get more.

The enormous cap graveyards of Ladd, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Boychuk, in goal, and the money Tavares will warrant just don't make sense if you're planning to build a championship team.

The irony in all this, Tavares wll do the Isles a favour if he walks, because we can't win with him at $11MM.....and we can't trade him....so it'll force a re-build under (HOPEFULLY) a new GM - which will bring some serious pain for a few more years (at least).

The Cap is rising to possibly 80m.

 

[Lek]

Lek, happy Wednesday - but here are some MORE issue with this mess.

Say they trade Leddy. Not likely they'll get a better Leddy back, if all goes PERFECTLY and we don't pull a Nino-Clutter deal, say we get a young dman with promise, say Liljegrin or Dermott from Toronto...well, that makes the team far worse.

So Leddy had a tough season. He's been set-up to fail, playing big minutes against top players with inadequate defense partners. Bringing in a Doughty would allow all dmen to move down the lineup, where they are better suited. 2-3 such players is a win-win for EVERY player. But there's no way we're getting a Doughty, so moving guys UP into the lineup (the reason why we sucked so much this year) will just lead to a further downward spiral.

We can't just salary-dump or buy players out or take on bad salaries.

The team still needs to play and the players cannot develop if they aren't in situations where they CAN develop.

I don't hate Pelech or Mayfield or Pulock - but they cannot succeed playing the minutes they do. Pelech is a terrible skater, as is Pulock, both are terrible defensively, but having them out there against top forward groups, for 17-20 or 20+ minutes is a disaster.

I believe Pulock will be a very good defenseman once he gets used to the speed and adjusts to the NHL - but this year, all the dmen look terrible. It's a simple as losing Hamonic, deHaan and Boychuk (who's seen better days) - these guys were good players and ate up big minutes and allowed others to be slotted better.

We can't fire-sale, we can't bring in UFAs, if we re-sign players we have to pray that everything magical happens (career years for most, development of Ho-Sang, Pulock, Pelech, in GOAL AND no injuries) - AND THEN, maybe, we make the playoffs. How sad is that?!?

It's Wed.....lol.....and all so very true....there is no longer a good answer...and the issues out weigh the possible answers...and all are in limbo till JT makes up his mind about staying or not, and for how much. We can only hope that this year will help to improve our young D players some, as i do not see any other way to improve, as I do not see DeHaan back here next year.
I would still listen on Leddy, though did not mean that to say that would work...just a thought to put an ear to as I am not so sure it will make a big difference either way next year, hope I am wrong.

 

[PK Cronin]

here's a visual, with Raanta instead of Halak, this is a $75MM team folks.

I'd deal Nelson for a few pucks, frankly I'd re-sign Kulemin instead but we can probably get a cheaper Kulemin in Wagner/Fritz - like we could have had a much cheaper Cizikas/Clutterbuck (thanks Garth)

We can play with the fringe players all we want (Halak/Raanta) or Frtiz/Quine/Prince/MDC/Wagner - but does anyone see a playoff team or any HOPE for a contender? And then consider Lee will get a huge raise, Eberle maybe around the same money, Barzal will make a small fortune on his next deal. Beau will get more.

The enormous cap graveyards of Ladd, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Boychuk, in goal, and the money Tavares will warrant just don't make sense if you're planning to build a championship team.

The irony in all this, Tavares wll do the Isles a favour if he walks, because we can't win with him at $11MM.....and we can't trade him....so it'll force a re-build under (HOPEFULLY) a new GM - which will bring some serious pain for a few more years (at least).

Depends what the cap does. If that's $75 million, that means there's still another $7 million if it raises to that $82 million number we heard earlier this year. Eberle shouldn't get much o f a raise and I don't think Lee will make much more than Bailey. That'd be plenty of room to keep our guys intact, the question is, how do we dump off the bad contracts to make room for good players?

 

[redbull]

Depends what the cap does. If that's $75 million, that means there's still another $7 million if it raises to that $82 million number we heard earlier this year. Eberle shouldn't get much o f a raise and I don't think Lee will make much more than Bailey. That'd be plenty of room to keep our guys intact, the question is, how do we dump off the bad contracts to make room for good players?

a higher cap is (fortunately or unfortunately) the same for ALL teams. It only helps drive salaries higher, doesn't change the competitive landscape around the league NOR give the Isles any better chance of improving. It only raises the price-tag on an "Andrew Ladd, Frans, KO UFA signing" - not a way to improve....just a more expensive mistake.

Great (or playoff teams, anyway) are all drafting and development, smart use of ELCs and cap space to surround players with vets at the right time. And that's not just good goals/game or pts/game, but critical to have a solid top 4 defense and great goaltending. Two major holes the Isles have that are near-impossible to fill.

 

[majormet]

This team is very hard to construct around the very bad contracts, Greiss, Clutter and Ladd are awful deals...

I think if Snow is still here (hope not), he can find some magic Moulsons around the league that are cheap if JT is signed and we add a solid dman

Gibson is definitely a keeper, Johnston should be on the roster.

Coaching is the most important offseason move

 

[HyeDray]

First step — before we can speculate on what the team will look like — management.

There were plenty of times I was happy to give snow the benefit of the doubt and an opportunity. But for the past 3 seasons, I have seen more then enough.

So step #1 — if Snow is gone (and I hope ownerships makes that call) then I would have to believe it will be a "clean house" situation — meaning new staff, new coach — Everything!!

That brings Step #2 which is Tavares. Everything revolves around him and his decision.

The major issue linking these two steps — is Tavares going to insist that Snow remain GM or is he ready for a clean slate with a new GM and probably a new coach?

Our first indication will come the few days after the season ends. If Snow & Co. are fired, that is a sign that either JT gave the green light (so to speak) or that he has indicated he is not signing, and the team is moving on in all aspects.

 

[ndgolden]

Depends what the cap does. If that's $75 million, that means there's still another $7 million if it raises to that $82 million number we heard earlier this year. Eberle shouldn't get much o f a raise and I don't think Lee will make much more than Bailey. That'd be plenty of room to keep our guys intact, the question is, how do we dump off the bad contracts to make room for good players?

If the Islanders are going to enter a re-build mode, combined with the prospect of playing an interim schedule between NVMC and Barclays for the next three years, the idea that Eberle or Lee will sign at below market values is incredibly optimistic let alone if they want to sign with the Islanders at all, if a vision is not in place to reach and contend in the play-offs going forward. It is for these very reasons that UFA's that sign with the Islanders tend to sign for above market contracts. We have more than enough examples of late to back that up.

Believe it not, some players will actually take less to play for a team that will yearly contend in the play-offs.

That is the danger for this organization if the recent skid marks continue to grow longer.

 

[Instant]

If the Islanders are going to enter a re-build mode

The Islanders have been in a constant rebuild mode for the last 12 years and it looks like they should start another one. That's everything anyone needs to know about this team to understand why no UFA wants to come play here.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Ladd, Clutterbuck, Greiss, Boychuk and Cizikas absolutely kill us

The enormous cap graveyards of Ladd, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Boychuk, in goal, and the money Tavares will warrant just don't make sense if you're planning to build a championship team.

Why Boychuk?

 

[Lame Lambert]

Why Boychuk?

He’s not a 6 million dollar a year player. I have no problem with the contract, but you can’t give him that while also paying all the other ones I listed.

 

[IODCPiper]

Why Boychuk?

Because he still has several years at 6 mil

 

[Kevin27NYI]

I have Isles trading Greiss and a second for Howard.
Trade Nelson for a pair of seconds, maybe MTL? Van?
Trading Pelech, second 1st rounder, MVS and a second in 2018 for OEL.
Sign Wagner and Johnston to 1 way deals that are cheap and let Prince and Quine go.
Sign Bozak? 5 years for 4.4.
Assume cap at 78 million we could do this.