Something in the middle. Trade Nash, trade Grabner, and guys like that. Let's trade everyone who isn't 25 for picks and prospects so that maybe we can be the Pens/Kings/Hawks, or because I want a fun player to watch seems silly.
Post-Game Talk: New York Rangers at Ottawa Senators - February 17
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Something in the middle. Trade Nash, trade Grabner, and guys like that. Let's trade everyone who isn't 25 for picks and prospects so that maybe we can be the Pens/Kings/Hawks, or because I want a fun player to watch seems silly.
Blais to Win
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@SnowblindNYR with a series of excellent posts in this thread. A rebuild, picks, and prospects are all risky for the team. It might make it hard to watch at times.
That said, the Rangers have been very competitive for a long time now and a transition needs to happen. Let's accept that it has come about through the aging of our core players and failure of the youth to excel or even in cases to step up as expected. So, whatever you call it, it's time passing and we will witness a changing of the guard. We can hope the transition is managed well and that players develop as we hope they should.
There are no guarantees, so the pro-tank faction should just remember that. They should also remember that being competitive, as the Rangers were, is the essence of excellence in sport - how they played over the past 7-8 years is very far from mediocre.
That said, the Rangers have been very competitive for a long time now and a transition needs to happen. Let's accept that it has come about through the aging of our core players and failure of the youth to excel or even in cases to step up as expected. So, whatever you call it, it's time passing and we will witness a changing of the guard. We can hope the transition is managed well and that players develop as we hope they should.
There are no guarantees, so the pro-tank faction should just remember that. They should also remember that being competitive, as the Rangers were, is the essence of excellence in sport - how they played over the past 7-8 years is very far from mediocre.
Rangers in 7
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Grabner continues to play his way towards a return of a first rounder, Nash also didn't look like complete shit so theres that too
Krams
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egelband
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Definitely move the UFAs.
Listen to offers for the RFAs.
I think this is what they will and should do.
Hopefully JG is aggressive and busy, does all his due diligence, and doesn’t miss out on any good opportunities.
Fingers crossed.
If done well, this team can be more lively and competitive next year.
Listen to offers for the RFAs.
I think this is what they will and should do.
Hopefully JG is aggressive and busy, does all his due diligence, and doesn’t miss out on any good opportunities.
Fingers crossed.
If done well, this team can be more lively and competitive next year.
The pro tank crowd has acknowledged that there are no guarantees.
Your 2nd paragraph really captures what we're saying. No offense to Snowblind, but it seems like hes just arguing for the sake of arguing.
I'm not. I just think it's silly that it's framed as "there are no guarantees". It's like buying a lotto ticket and framing it as there are no guarantees.
Isn't that what they're doing? They'll move the UFAs (makes sense), they'll potentially move the older guys without much term left like Zucc and McD because if we continue the current trend we won't really be competing next year (makes sense), and they'll look to maybe move one of Miller/Hayes because they'll want a pay day and the team needs a minor shakeup (makes sense).
The team certainly hasn't given any indiction they'll be selling off everyone over 25 for picks and prospects, so until they do it's probably best (and safest) to assume they won't, and if a few on here are getting bit hysterical on here over nothing, just ignore them (or politely over them a cuppa and biscuit so they calm down).
Well I wouldn't call McDonagh and Zucc older guys and one of Miller and Hayes aren't guys I'd move. I'm not opposed to changing things up, but I get the feeling a lot of people just want to blow the team up.
darko
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McD and Zucca need to be moved because:
1. they'll walk for free soon
2. we'll be forced to overpay to keep them
3. they'll be in their 30s next time we are competing
And as I said I'm leaning towards changes for sure. But I guess I'm in the middle of the "give me rebuild or give me death" and the "if you want a rebuild you're not a real fan" people.
egelband
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Good teams need veterans too. It wouldn’t be the end of the world if the Rangers kept those two. Though it’s definitely going to be tough financially. Zucc probably doesn’t break the bank but McD will. Probably quite a few long meetings among the brass to figure out what to do with him.
They're older in the sense that if you wanted to keep them beyond next year, you'd likely be paying a lot of money for players who are now over 30. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but if your team direction is 'we need to restock/rebuild for a few years' it's potentially not the smartest move and neither player potentially wants to play here for a less competitive team, but that means you either lose them for nothing or get back less return at the next TDL.
I'd keep Hayes, but Miller almost fall sin the same boat as McD and Zucc in that he needs a new contract very soon, and it's likely going to be pretty hefty at $5m+ for 5+ years. Again, potentially not horrible, but if you are looking to change things up you move him now, not later.
I think a lot of people want to 'blow it up', but it means very different things to very different people; so it doesn't really end up meaning anything. I'd describe moving Nash, Grabs, Holden, McD as blowing it up, especially if you potentially add Miller and Smith to that, and that's ignoring Zucc; but other's wouldn't until you add in Staal, Hayes, Kreider etc...
I'd say most are.
Think of it like politics where the extreme fringes make all the noise and most people just reside somewhere in the centre
Veterans can be added for cheaper via UFA.
Zucc looks like the decline bug bit him in the ass. Move him before its too late.
darko
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Good teams do need veterans I agree. What they don't need is albatross contracts because that's what those 2 will get. Zucca and McD already took discounts, now they want to cash in on their last big payday.
Samuel Culper III
Mr. Woodhull...
I don’t see ANYONE saying trade everyone over 25. But as a matter of fact, once you remove Nash, Holden, Grabner, Desharnais (all UFAs) the only guys over 26 are McDonagh, Zuccarello, Shattenkirk, Lundqvist, Staal and Smith.
McDonagh and Zucc will need big extensions. They’re valuable currently. We can make a transition significantly smoother by moving them at peak value. Lundqvist isn’t going anywhere. Staal has no value and is a fine vet for the blue line. Smith is... whatever. Shattenkirk just signed and will be fine when healthy. I don’t see anyone saying to move anyone besides Zucc and McD. I see people who are willing to LISTEN on everyone because there’s no point in a team in our position not listening to offers on everyone. I see people saying that, if the opportunity exists, we should package a couple of our guys for an upgrade. Because upgrades are what we need. The “rebuild” that everyone is advocating for is selling the UFAs, moving next years UFAs out one year early because it maximizes the return and then CONSIDERING one unexpected trade that packages a few guys, shakes things up and brings in a significant and worthwhile return. This isn’t let’s dress a bunch of 22 year olds and finish 29th for the next 6 years.
And say the Lightning win this year. But then never again in Stamkos’ career. Or the Predators. Just one cup. What if we became one of them? The odds are against winning the Cup regardless of the path we take but if the “rebuild” that I am talking about (not whatever scorched earth one you seem to think I want) makes us a team like Tampa... even if they also fall short this year. Is that bad? I don’t think so. But I’d like to get some high end talent in the door because I’m a little tired of our goalie saving our bacon or squeezing out wins by committee with Carey and Fast or Desharnais and Vesey providing 2/3 of the offense. It would certainly be nice to have a guy who could have a point per game season. And then if we do experience a year or two of struggles (not 6 or 7) at least we have something enjoyable to watch.
KOVALEV022473
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For the record, I do not contend that those of whom wish for a rebuild are not true fans. However, those of whom root for the Rangers to lose and wish injuries or trade demands by their franchise goaltender, they are not true fans. If other fans did that on our board we would call them trolls, and rightly so.
I haven't hated one of our own guys as much as Anthony Deangelo since we had Kevin Hatcher on the team. The way this clown plays defense makes Michael DelZotto look like Rod Langway. Bar none the worst defensive player I have seen in easily 10 years in a Rangers sweater. God awful.
I don't agree that rooting for the team to lose makes you not a real fan. I may not agree with a full blown rebuild and I'm not sure if we'll get a high enough pick where losing now will make a difference but if the team is most likely not making the playoffs then what is the purpose of winning and getting a worse pick? If the Giants won 2 of their last 8 games in 2003 instead of all 8 they would have gotten some player that likely would have made a marginal difference. Instead they got Eli Manning and two Super Bowl rings. I'm sure no one would remember the 2 meaningless wins in 2003 the day after they occurred.
KOVALEV022473
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I hear you, and in that one particular instance it worked out, but these situations aren’t similar. This team sits only five points out of a spot with a quarter of the season to go and people are hoping for the very things I sited in my previous post. The draft lottery is a completely different animal.
GlasgowNewYorkRanger
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It's hard to argue with people wanting the best for our team, from both angles there are good points and things where there is common ground to be found.
Some real quality stuff from Snowblind in these last few posts, though - as Bob Santos said - really enjoyed reading.
Some real quality stuff from Snowblind in these last few posts, though - as Bob Santos said - really enjoyed reading.
Xref
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How many regulation wins do the Rangers have in the past month? And you think they'd do well in playoffs? If not, what's the point to wanting to squeak into the playoffs? They can't even beat the Piles or Sens. And they going to be trading away their biggest offensive players and perhaps their captain. Winning anything? Not a chance. So I hope we lose every single game remaining so we can have HOPE of becoming a better team for the future. Then again, with Sather at the helm, there's no chance of that either.....
KOVALEV022473
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C’mon man, the whole “injuries are no excuse” is BS! We’ve been decimated by injuries this year and with a few guys coming back by the deadline, they might do better than you think.
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