Music: Neil Peart greatest prog musician of all time?

[NyQuil]

I've had a 180 change of heart on some artists. Maybe, god forbid, I'll like Rush one day.

Well, Mrs_NyQuil likes Animate, Working Man, Spirit of Radio and Limelight and that's about it, despite all my efforts.

She has said she thinks that all of their songs sound kind of the same.

So saturation doesn't seem to work for everyone, even if it did for me.

 

[Fantomas]

I suspect they belong in a Prog Rock thread.

I think they do, good catch. I think they only time I heard Supertramp is from the CD she gave me. Needless to say I cackled, chuckled and chortled a lot.

 

[beowulf]

I'm sympathetic to people who dislike Rush because I certainly disliked them for quite awhile until my older brother's incessant playing of them wore me down.

Then he started making me mix-tapes and that was it.

Still, Geddy Lee's vocals are an acquired taste at best, some of the long instrumental sections could be seen as self-indulgent and the lyrics (whether about trees or guitar-wielding revolutionaries or car chases in the future or Ayn Rand philosophy) are weird.

So when someone says they dislike Rush, I completely understand, even if I also completely disagree.

What I do like about them is that they never compromised their vision for what they wanted to do, they amicably stayed together for decades, and they offered nerds the world over an outlet for their passions and beliefs while still boasting virtuoso musicianship and legitimate rock and roll volume.

A song like Subdivisions, as cheesy as it sounds, sums up the lives of a lot of Dungeons and Dragons playing teens who did not have a fun time in high school.

I can understand someone not liking Rush, for some it can be as simple as not liking Geddy's singing voice, but to come into a thread like this and simply post "LOL Rush sucks" shows a lack of maturity.

 

[Fantomas]

but to come into a thread like this and simply post "LOL Rush sucks" shows a lack of maturity.

I agree.

 

[NyQuil]

I think they do, good catch. I think they only time I heard Supertramp is from the CD she gave me. Needless to say I cackled, chuckled and chortled a lot.

Supertramp is a funny band because my first impression was that of a fairly sunny, largely pop-influenced, UK entity that produced a string of hits that even my falsetto has a hard time reaching.

But, like Steely Dan, the lyrics are actually pretty subversive, and the juxtaposition between the working class and gruff Rick Davies and the more private (public) school pop-driven and melodic Roger Hodgson is a bit fascinating.

Sometimes I enjoy fairly light-hearted music that is underscored with deeply cynical and sarcastic lyrics because you don't typically pick it up on the first few listens and the first impression of the thrust of the song is actually misplaced.

 

[Fantomas]

But, like Steely Dan, the lyrics are actually pretty subversive, and the juxtaposition between the working class and gruff Rick Davies and the more private (public) school pop-driven and melodic Roger Hodgson is a bit fascinating.

I'm really digging Steely Dan these days. I guess this means I'm officially middle aged.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Don't know so much about progressive rock, but Robert Fripp does have my favorite guitar solo (Eno's Baby's On Fire).

 

[NyQuil]

Rolling Stones top 50 Prog Rock Albums:

50. Happy the Man, 'Happy the Man' (1977)
49. Ruins, 'Hyderomastgroningem' (1995)
48. FM, 'Black Noise' (1977)
47. Crack the Sky, 'Crack the Sky' (1975)
46. Carmen, 'Fandangos in Space' (1973)

45. Triumvirat, 'Illusions on a Double Dimple' (1974)
44. Strawbs, 'Hero and Heroine' (1974)
43. Electric Light Orchestra, 'Eldorado' (1974)
42. Meshuggah, 'Destroy Erase Improve' (1995)
41. Amon Düül II, 'Yeti' (1970)

40. The Soft Machine, 'Third' (1970)
39. Porcupine Tree, 'Fear of a Blank Planet' (2007)
38. Gong, 'You' (1974)
37. Marillion, 'Clutching at Straws' (1987)
36. Harmonium, 'Si On Avait Besoin D'Une Cinquieme' (1975)

35. Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso, 'Io Sono Nato Libero' (1973)
34. Caravan, 'In the Land of Grey and Pink' (1971)
33. Tool, 'Lateralus' (2001)
32. Kansas, 'Leftoverture' (1976)
31. Renaissance, 'Ashes Are Burning' (1973)

30. U.K., 'U.K.' (1978)
29. Dream Theater, 'Metropolis 2: Scenes From a Memory' (1999)
28. Opeth, 'Blackwater Park' (2001)
27. Supertramp, 'Crime of the Century' (1974)
26. Van Der Graaf Generator, 'Pawn Hearts' (1971)

25. The Mars Volta, 'De-Loused in the Comatorium' (2003)
24. Magma, 'Mëkanïk Dëstruktïẁ Kömmandöh' (1973)
23. Tangerine Dream, 'Phaedra' (1974)
22. Rush, '2112' (1976)
21. Camel, 'Mirage' (1974)

20. King Crimson, 'Larks' Tongues in Aspic' (1973)
19. PFM, 'Per un Amico' (1972)
18. Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention, 'One Size Fits All' (1975)
17. Mike Oldfield, 'Tubular Bells' (1973)
16. Gentle Giant, 'Octopus' (1972)

15. King Crimson, 'Red' (1974)
14. Genesis, 'Foxtrot' (1972)
13. Pink Floyd, 'Animals' (1977)
12. Emerson, Lake and Palmer, 'Brain Salad Surgery' (1973)
11. Rush, 'Hemispheres' (1978)

10. Yes, 'Fragile' (1971)
9. Genesis, 'The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway' (1974)
8. Can, 'Future Days' (1973)
7. Jethro Tull, 'Thick as a Brick' (1972)
6. Genesis, 'Selling England by the Pound' (1973)

5. Yes, 'Close to the Edge' (1972)
4. Pink Floyd, 'Wish You Were Here' (1975)
3. Rush, 'Moving Pictures' (1981)
2. King Crimson, 'In the Court of the Crimson King' (1969)
1. Pink Floyd, 'The Dark Side of the Moon' (1973)

50 Greatest Prog Rock Albums of All Time

Interestingly:
-40 of 50 are from the 1970s
-33 of 50 are from 1970-1975

It makes you wonder whether budding progressive musicians veered into electronica or other forms of music once you get past the early 80s.

 

[NyQuil]

I'm really digging Steely Dan these days. I guess this means I'm officially middle aged.

I went to see them with my Dad about five years or so ago at the National Arts Centre in Ottawa. Walter Becker was still alive at the time, which was good as he's sadly passed since then.

Steely Dan is his favourite band.

My brother and I were the only non-white haired folks in the audience which was sort of funny.

As a middle-aged guy, the lyrics of Hey Nineteen are especially funny.

 

[beowulf]

Rolling Stones top 50 Prog Rock Albums:

50. Happy the Man, 'Happy the Man' (1977)
49. Ruins, 'Hyderomastgroningem' (1995)
48. FM, 'Black Noise' (1977)
47. Crack the Sky, 'Crack the Sky' (1975)
46. Carmen, 'Fandangos in Space' (1973)

45. Triumvirat, 'Illusions on a Double Dimple' (1974)
44. Strawbs, 'Hero and Heroine' (1974)
43. Electric Light Orchestra, 'Eldorado' (1974)
42. Meshuggah, 'Destroy Erase Improve' (1995)
41. Amon Düül II, 'Yeti' (1970)

40. The Soft Machine, 'Third' (1970)
39. Porcupine Tree, 'Fear of a Blank Planet' (2007)
38. Gong, 'You' (1974)
37. Marillion, 'Clutching at Straws' (1987)
36. Harmonium, 'Si On Avait Besoin D'Une Cinquieme' (1975)

35. Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso, 'Io Sono Nato Libero' (1973)
34. Caravan, 'In the Land of Grey and Pink' (1971)
33. Tool, 'Lateralus' (2001)
32. Kansas, 'Leftoverture' (1976)
31. Renaissance, 'Ashes Are Burning' (1973)

30. U.K., 'U.K.' (1978)
29. Dream Theater, 'Metropolis 2: Scenes From a Memory' (1999)
28. Opeth, 'Blackwater Park' (2001)
27. Supertramp, 'Crime of the Century' (1974)
26. Van Der Graaf Generator, 'Pawn Hearts' (1971)

25. The Mars Volta, 'De-Loused in the Comatorium' (2003)
24. Magma, 'Mëkanïk Dëstruktïẁ Kömmandöh' (1973)
23. Tangerine Dream, 'Phaedra' (1974)
22. Rush, '2112' (1976)
21. Camel, 'Mirage' (1974)

20. King Crimson, 'Larks' Tongues in Aspic' (1973)
19. PFM, 'Per un Amico' (1972)
18. Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention, 'One Size Fits All' (1975)
17. Mike Oldfield, 'Tubular Bells' (1973)
16. Gentle Giant, 'Octopus' (1972)

15. King Crimson, 'Red' (1974)
14. Genesis, 'Foxtrot' (1972)
13. Pink Floyd, 'Animals' (1977)
12. Emerson, Lake and Palmer, 'Brain Salad Surgery' (1973)
11. Rush, 'Hemispheres' (1978)

10. Yes, 'Fragile' (1971)
9. Genesis, 'The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway' (1974)
8. Can, 'Future Days' (1973)
7. Jethro Tull, 'Thick as a Brick' (1972)
6. Genesis, 'Selling England by the Pound' (1973)

5. Yes, 'Close to the Edge' (1972)
4. Pink Floyd, 'Wish You Were Here' (1975)
3. Rush, 'Moving Pictures' (1981)
2. King Crimson, 'In the Court of the Crimson King' (1969)
1. Pink Floyd, 'The Dark Side of the Moon' (1973)

50 Greatest Prog Rock Albums of All Time

Interestingly:
-40 of 50 are from the 1970s
-33 of 50 are from 1970-1975

It makes you wonder whether budding progressive musicians veered into electronica or other forms of music once you get past the early 80s.

I think that in part it comes down to what you consider progressive rock and that many of the most popular/best progressive style bands these days would be often considered progressive metal with a heavier sound to them. Then there is the emergence of the sub-genres like Djent for example. The 70s though were the start and possibly the high point for progressive rock even though bands have shown up on the scene since.

Tool is on the above list but is more metal in my mind, same with Opeth.

 

[Saturated Fats]

Rolling Stones top 50 Prog Rock Albums:
It makes you wonder whether budding progressive musicians veered into electronica or other forms of music once you get past the early 80s.

Well, yeah. Look at Peter Gabriel. Came from one of the great prog rock bands of all time, and instead of going all Mike Oldfield or something, he goes for sophisti-pop/art rock - and absolutely kills it. The 80's was more of an ironic time than the 70's, and so bands that were out there with their pomp and circumstance (trappings of prog) were eschewed for acts that fit the zeitgeist more, like Gabriel or Kate Bush, or bands like Maiden, Priest, and Metallica who were simply harder. The obvious exception to this is Floyd, which chameleoned a great deal into the late 70's/post-Waters era.

Also, listing Wish You Were Here as prog is a bit silly. 'Shine On' is borderline, and you can't really call anything else from that record prog. I have a hard time classifying Floyd that way in general, at least if you're evaluating them through the same lens as Rush, Crimson, Yes, Genesis, etc.

 

[NyQuil]

The 80's was more of an ironic time than the 70's, and so bands that were out there with their pomp and circumstance (trappings of prog) were eschewed for acts that fit the zeitgeist more, like Gabriel or Kate Bush, or bands like Maiden, Priest, and Metallica who were simply harder. The obvious exception to this is Floyd, which chameleoned a great deal into the late 70's/post-Waters era.

Well, it was also the rise of glam metal acts like Poison, Motley Crue, Skid Row, Cinderella, Warrant and 80s Van Halen (obviously owing a lot to Kiss and Alice Cooper etc.)

It's not like pomp and circumstance went away until the 1990s or so with grunge and alternative rock.

 

[Saturated Fats]

For sure - but people didn't take bands like those seriously. People always took prog seriously, until the 80's, when they kinda didn't.

 

[NyQuil]

For sure - but people didn't take bands like those seriously. People always took prog seriously, until the 80's, when they kinda didn't.

Well, whether you agree with Rolling Stone's list or not, there's like a five year window that apparently represents the zenith of progressive rock.

Acid jazz is a genre I got into in early university and it also had a very short tenure of any real mainstream interest. I suppose that applies to virtually all subgenres.

More recently it was bands/artists like Toro y Moi and Washout with chillwave.

 

[kihei]

Well, whether you agree with Rolling Stone's list or not, there's like a five year window that apparently represents the zenith of progressive rock.

Acid jazz is a genre I got into in early university and it also had a very short tenure of any real mainstream interest. I suppose that applies to virtually all subgenres.

More recently it was bands/artists like Toro y Moi and Washout with chillwave.

I never figured out what acid jazz was. I was a big fan of Brian Auger and the Oblivion Express, saw them live at the El Mocambo in Toronto. Years later, the band came up in the conversation and somebody said they are the best acid jazz band ever. I said, "they're what?"

 

[NyQuil]

I never figured out what acid jazz was. I was a big fan of Brian Auger and the Oblivion Express, saw them live at the El Mocambo in Toronto. Years later, the band came up in the conversation and somebody said they are the best acid jazz band ever. I said, "they're what?"

In general, I find it's mostly a more modern version of funk with some soul and fusion thrown in.

But you're right - I find it impossible to keep up with the endless splintering of genres into ever smaller subgenres.

 

[Perennial]

Weird Al

/Thread

 

[peate]

Jon Anderson

 

[beowulf]

Weird Al

/Thread

LOL not sure how he qualifies as progressive rock in any way, shape or form.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

LOL not sure how he qualifies as progressive rock in any way, shape or form.

Weird Al did have an 11 minute song. I'm not sure I'd put it on par with "Gates of Delirium", "Starless", or "Tarkus", but it's up there.

 

[Shareefruck]

I've always found Rush uninteresting, prog rock overly stuffy, self-serious, and try-hard in general (don't like bands like Genesis or Yes either), and Krautrock to be a significantly better off-shoot of prog rock than prog rock itself, personally. So.... Jaki Leibzeit or Holger Czukay would be my pick if they count, I guess?

Does Robert Wyatt count? Soft Machine is prog rock, right?

 

[S E P H]

Rolling Stones top 50 Prog Rock Albums:

50. Happy the Man, 'Happy the Man' (1977)
49. Ruins, 'Hyderomastgroningem' (1995)
48. FM, 'Black Noise' (1977)
47. Crack the Sky, 'Crack the Sky' (1975)
46. Carmen, 'Fandangos in Space' (1973)

45. Triumvirat, 'Illusions on a Double Dimple' (1974)
44. Strawbs, 'Hero and Heroine' (1974)
43. Electric Light Orchestra, 'Eldorado' (1974)
42. Meshuggah, 'Destroy Erase Improve' (1995)
41. Amon Düül II, 'Yeti' (1970)

40. The Soft Machine, 'Third' (1970)
39. Porcupine Tree, 'Fear of a Blank Planet' (2007)
38. Gong, 'You' (1974)
37. Marillion, 'Clutching at Straws' (1987)
36. Harmonium, 'Si On Avait Besoin D'Une Cinquieme' (1975)

35. Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso, 'Io Sono Nato Libero' (1973)
34. Caravan, 'In the Land of Grey and Pink' (1971)
33. Tool, 'Lateralus' (2001)
32. Kansas, 'Leftoverture' (1976)
31. Renaissance, 'Ashes Are Burning' (1973)

30. U.K., 'U.K.' (1978)
29. Dream Theater, 'Metropolis 2: Scenes From a Memory' (1999)
28. Opeth, 'Blackwater Park' (2001)
27. Supertramp, 'Crime of the Century' (1974)
26. Van Der Graaf Generator, 'Pawn Hearts' (1971)

25. The Mars Volta, 'De-Loused in the Comatorium' (2003)
24. Magma, 'Mëkanïk Dëstruktïẁ Kömmandöh' (1973)
23. Tangerine Dream, 'Phaedra' (1974)
22. Rush, '2112' (1976)
21. Camel, 'Mirage' (1974)

20. King Crimson, 'Larks' Tongues in Aspic' (1973)
19. PFM, 'Per un Amico' (1972)
18. Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention, 'One Size Fits All' (1975)
17. Mike Oldfield, 'Tubular Bells' (1973)
16. Gentle Giant, 'Octopus' (1972)

15. King Crimson, 'Red' (1974)
14. Genesis, 'Foxtrot' (1972)
13. Pink Floyd, 'Animals' (1977)
12. Emerson, Lake and Palmer, 'Brain Salad Surgery' (1973)
11. Rush, 'Hemispheres' (1978)

10. Yes, 'Fragile' (1971)
9. Genesis, 'The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway' (1974)
8. Can, 'Future Days' (1973)
7. Jethro Tull, 'Thick as a Brick' (1972)
6. Genesis, 'Selling England by the Pound' (1973)

5. Yes, 'Close to the Edge' (1972)
4. Pink Floyd, 'Wish You Were Here' (1975)
3. Rush, 'Moving Pictures' (1981)
2. King Crimson, 'In the Court of the Crimson King' (1969)
1. Pink Floyd, 'The Dark Side of the Moon' (1973)

50 Greatest Prog Rock Albums of All Time

Interestingly:
-40 of 50 are from the 1970s
-33 of 50 are from 1970-1975

It makes you wonder whether budding progressive musicians veered into electronica or other forms of music once you get past the early 80s.

Might not qualify, but Dream Theatre's Images and Words is an absolute top ten album of all-time. I think what happened to the genre is that all the Prog Rock stuff turned into Prog Metal with a ton of variations from clean, growl vocals, and a combination of everything like you get from Between the Buried and Me.

If we're talking about song-writing, Peart was amazing and his drumming had such a unique style of melodic yet stayed technical. I understand if people don't like Rush, but I don't understand the full hate of them. They clearly have some overrated songs that were overrated during one of the most hype ages of music in the 80s, but albums like Signals, Hold Your Fire, A Farewell to Kings are masterpieces as far as I am concerned once you get rid of their overhyped albums 2112 and Moving Pictures. I suggest that a song like "High Water" is better than songs like "Limelight" or "Red Barchetta". I would say that the worst part of Peart was his lyrical content, it desperately lacks in a lot of songs and some are meme level bad.

 

[Eisen]

I don't like Rush and I disagree with the choice but it's not totally absurd. He was a good drummer, no idea if he was a good writer.

 

[Lshap]

Supertramp is a funny band because my first impression was that of a fairly sunny, largely pop-influenced, UK entity that produced a string of hits that even my falsetto has a hard time reaching.

But, like Steely Dan, the lyrics are actually pretty subversive, and the juxtaposition between the working class and gruff Rick Davies and the more private (public) school pop-driven and melodic Roger Hodgson is a bit fascinating.

Sometimes I enjoy fairly light-hearted music that is underscored with deeply cynical and sarcastic lyrics because you don't typically pick it up on the first few listens and the first impression of the thrust of the song is actually misplaced.

I like Davies' and Hodgson's voices, yet Lee's voice generates stomach acid. I know it makes no sense -- it's like preferring these nails on a blackboard to those nails. For me, what elevates Supertramp over Rush is cohesiveness of melody and a richer range of instruments. Supertramp is no less ambitious in their writing and musicianship, but the piano and sax give their songs an organic quality that I feel Rush lacks. And maybe that's why Supertramp isn't thought of as 'progressive' -- they're not trying to be epic. Plus, they occasionally managed to pull off good ol' fashioned pop tunes with 4/4 rhythms and typical chord transitions.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I can't really dispute it.. but then I also think that Danny Carey is the best progressive drummer ever and I don't think Tool would nearly the success they've had with any other drummer behind them.. while I think, Rush could have achieved a closer level to success with another prog drummer.