Inferno
Registered User
I don't think pionks value will ever be higher than it is right now...if u could Rob chiarelli or someone...I'd do it in a heartbeat.
Player Discussion Neal Pionk
- Thread starter nevesis
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You had me at "Let's be reality"
Damn...this is two monster posts in a row
Don’t you remember when those’ dual anchors’ completely shut down other teams top lines? After awhile they did become praised anchors .
Still, your comparable barely works as a cautionary tale.
Those were two old ass beat down Dmen in decline, coached by an asshole. This is a rookie with room to grow
To the last part:
It’s not supposed to address that concern. You are not considering a LOT. Who exactly told you that the team views him differently?
He's a rookie, temporarily tested in a role while a vet isn't producing. This does not suggest he's seen as a guaranteed 1. His time in that role has been too short and this season is too experimental to make that assumption.
Avg TOI in 8 games this season: 22: 40
He temporarily replaced a vet who was not producing. This is common place in every NHL season. He produced. He’s been allowed to stay. It’s an experimental season where rookies will be tested in various roles.
This allows us to see what they can do, it also allows us to know what we need to acquire in the upcoming 2 years.
No one else capable? A team full of young players? Freedom to lose any game? Struggling vet? Seems like the literal perfect time to let a rookie try his hand at it.
To the bold:
Irrelevant. This team is focused on development, not the PO’s. You need to know what the young kids can do so you can clearly ID holes on the squad and fill them with talent later on.
What specific things would match what you’re saying in the first part? This Pionk example doesn’t.
“Explain away” suggests that something alarming is being carelessly ignored.. I think you’re confusing that term for what’s really going on, which is that several posters are simply explaining a possibly temporary change in the lineup, a change that makes complete sense in this specific scenario.
It’s very possible that he has several talents that allow him to be a fill in. Now is the time to find out. Nothing suggests that this is permanent.
This comment and the one I bolded earlier flies completely in the face of what you said before.
Those two points suggest strongly that you are concerned about this season's results. Your point only makes sense if you care about this season’s results.
I strongly suspect you’re looking at rookie mistakes, ignoring what he’s doing well and I’m not sure what you’re definition of “bad” is.
Don’t you remember when those’ dual anchors’ completely shut down other teams top lines? After awhile they did become praised anchors .
Still, your comparable barely works as a cautionary tale.
Those were two old ass beat down Dmen in decline, coached by an asshole. This is a rookie with room to grow
To the last part:
It’s not supposed to address that concern. You are not considering a LOT. Who exactly told you that the team views him differently?
He's a rookie, temporarily tested in a role while a vet isn't producing. This does not suggest he's seen as a guaranteed 1. His time in that role has been too short and this season is too experimental to make that assumption.
Average time on ice through 36 career games: 22:27
Avg TOI in 8 games this season: 22: 40
He temporarily replaced a vet who was not producing. This is common place in every NHL season. He produced. He’s been allowed to stay. It’s an experimental season where rookies will be tested in various roles.
This allows us to see what they can do, it also allows us to know what we need to acquire in the upcoming 2 years.
I also thought it was obvious that this was an experimental season.
No one else capable? A team full of young players? Freedom to lose any game? Struggling vet? Seems like the literal perfect time to let a rookie try his hand at it.
To the bold:
Irrelevant. This team is focused on development, not the PO’s. You need to know what the young kids can do so you can clearly ID holes on the squad and fill them with talent later on.
You aren’t getting what that means or how that manifest throughout an 82 game season though.
What specific things would match what you’re saying in the first part? This Pionk example doesn’t.
“Explain away” suggests that something alarming is being carelessly ignored.. I think you’re confusing that term for what’s really going on, which is that several posters are simply explaining a possibly temporary change in the lineup, a change that makes complete sense in this specific scenario.
It’s very possible that he has several talents that allow him to be a fill in. Now is the time to find out. Nothing suggests that this is permanent.
This comment and the one I bolded earlier flies completely in the face of what you said before.
Those two points suggest strongly that you are concerned about this season's results. Your point only makes sense if you care about this season’s results.
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Riche16
McCready guitar god
So much more to gripe about on this team than Pionk. Jeez
What would be 'robbing' them? I think the absolute most someone would give for him is something like a 2nd round pick. Still not sure I'd do that. And I doubt teams value him that highly anyway.
ReggieDunlop68
hey hanrahan!
ReggieDunlop68
hey hanrahan!
Maybe...unless you drank the koolaid and thought that team was going anywhere, so you harped on minutiae when the big picture was a rebuild was around the corner.
ReggieDunlop68
hey hanrahan!
May I interject?
It’s not a blind appeal to authority to trust the coach over poster or a certain group of posters [not you @shinchanuuhh ]
It is true that a coach could not know anything and also be wrong alot, but wr are not privy to his specifc inner thoughts.
Thankfully many of the posters to which I refered have had no qualms and apparently had neither a loss in self - confidence nor a change in tone and opinion have left us with a tresure trove of pure nonsense.
So I agree. Appeal to authority for the sake of it is a classic fallacy, but I have a feeling @S5 was beating around the bush a bit.
When does credibilty come into play?
FireGerardGallant
The Artist Formerly known as FireDavidQuinn
- Mar 19, 2016
- 6,646
- 7,555
Vinny DeAngelo
Jimmy Easy to defend
Are there stats to back this up? He seems to be playing his usual game (according to my eye test)
He is by far playing the toughest minutes. 35th in the NHL in TOI/game, and averaging over 25 minutes a night.
If he has issues, and corsi rel just can’t be explained by the toughest matchups by far coming with him and not his partners — why are these problems assumed to be completely unstoppable?
Many players have fixed all kind of issues.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
The defense in general has several guys playing above their ideal usage.
Pionk and Skjei are prime examples of this. I think if they were both slotted down a pairing, on a good team, I really don't think there's be a ton of debate.
Unfortunately, that's not where the team is right now.
I don't think any of this is terribly surprising. While much of the focus went toward how the forwards would produce, and most of the more optimistic projections about this team featured several guys having better than average years, there really wasn't nearly enough talk about the defense.
It came up from time to time with a few posters, but then the conversation quickly returned to the offense. So here we are, talking about a defense that currently has guys who should be slotting in the 3-7 range being asked to pick up the slack for the 1-2 slots.
Pionk and Skjei are prime examples of this. I think if they were both slotted down a pairing, on a good team, I really don't think there's be a ton of debate.
Unfortunately, that's not where the team is right now.
I don't think any of this is terribly surprising. While much of the focus went toward how the forwards would produce, and most of the more optimistic projections about this team featured several guys having better than average years, there really wasn't nearly enough talk about the defense.
It came up from time to time with a few posters, but then the conversation quickly returned to the offense. So here we are, talking about a defense that currently has guys who should be slotting in the 3-7 range being asked to pick up the slack for the 1-2 slots.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
pionk plays a ton and plays a ton against top lines and plays a ton with partners that arent exactly norris trophy candidates.
as a vocal ADA fanboy, i gotta say pionk has done pretty well. his defensive reads and ability to engage isnt what i would like and he does seem allergic to contact sometimes but hes young and learning on the fly. hes being overplayed and thats gonna catch up to him when he hits the wall. adrenaline only goes so far.
i would like to see him play less for sure but he shouldn't be scratched. hes answered every bell. hes way in over his head but hes been pretty decent overall considering.
as a vocal ADA fanboy, i gotta say pionk has done pretty well. his defensive reads and ability to engage isnt what i would like and he does seem allergic to contact sometimes but hes young and learning on the fly. hes being overplayed and thats gonna catch up to him when he hits the wall. adrenaline only goes so far.
i would like to see him play less for sure but he shouldn't be scratched. hes answered every bell. hes way in over his head but hes been pretty decent overall considering.
Pionk doesn't "look" like an NHL player. It's hard to describe. He's a decent skater but when I watch him skate and his stride I'm like "this guy just doesn't look like an NHL defenseman' out there. Idk what it is.
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
- 15,836
- 16,679
Defensemen we should complain about in order
Mcquaid
Staal
Smith
Shattenkirk (not 100%)
Deangeleo (for whatever kept him out)
Claussen (played ok when he was in)
Pionk
Skjei
Mcquaid
Staal
Smith
Shattenkirk (not 100%)
Deangeleo (for whatever kept him out)
Claussen (played ok when he was in)
Pionk
Skjei
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I also think we need to keep in mind that this kid hasn't even played 100 games of professional hockey yet --- combined. In fact, assuming he plays every game, I don't even think he'll hit the mark until a month from now.
We spend so much time talking about the importance of giving ADA room to grow and develop, and yet we seem to subconsciously view Pionk like he's an older rookie with more experience. He's all of 12 weeks older than ADA and has less than half the professional experience.
So despite being thrown into the deep end, I think we have to grade on a weeeeee bit of a curve here.
We spend so much time talking about the importance of giving ADA room to grow and develop, and yet we seem to subconsciously view Pionk like he's an older rookie with more experience. He's all of 12 weeks older than ADA and has less than half the professional experience.
So despite being thrown into the deep end, I think we have to grade on a weeeeee bit of a curve here.
effen
Registered User
- Feb 3, 2018
- 9,297
- 8,503
Lot of vitriol for a UDFA who has been and continues to wildly outperform expectations
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
If Pionk was a third or fourth round pick, I can’t help but feel like we’d be a little more accepting of what Pionk is and isn’t.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
Any list that doesn't have Staal #1 is incorrect.
Bluto
Don't listen to me, I'm an idiot. TOGA! TOGA!
- Dec 24, 2017
- 1,439
- 2,179
Well I guess that (although I think there's some things he does pretty well) but i was referring to his skating. Just his stance/stride something looks off. He's got pretty quick feet but he's not very powerful or strong at all. Not a great first step. He can skate when he gets a chance to wind up but can't explode out of the zone like the elite skaters.
I think that's a reason he struggles moving the puck clean at times. He doesn't get separation with the first step and he's forced to throw the puck away a lot.
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