NCAA to allow CHL players to play hockey?

[Ernie]

So I don't get it - he says NCAA hockey is better than CHL hockey. But then what's the problem with letting CHL players into NCAA if it's so much better?

It sounds like, instead, he knows NCAA is NOT better, but he wants to keep NCAA players in NCAA, and would actually be worried about them defecting to CHL instead.

Yeah, that interview is quite confusing, but the NCAA is unquestionably a higher level league, for the reasons he states.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Here's an interesting take on the situation from Grand Forks, home of the University of North Dakota:

Schlossman: What would happen if CHL players became available to NCAA teams?

Would college hockey teams miss out on NHL first-round picks? Or would they get even more of them?

www.grandforksherald.com

 

[LadyStanley]

4 minutes in. No rule changed expected

 

[GKJ]

Sounds like this is back on the table according to Friedman.

 

[GKJ]

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Every time I see the name "Shane Malloy" that takes me back a good 20 years

 

[GKJ]

Every time I see the name "Shane Malloy" that takes me back a good 20 years

There’s multiple generations of posters who came here after us who don’t know this and I’m not terribly sure I do either

 

[LadyStanley]

Sounds like it'll be decided by lawyers, not conferences nor coaches. NHL wants a seat at the table to ensure things work well.

It may be that the USHL merges with CHL.

Maybe they'll also include agreement for 1st rounders to play in AHL.

 

[LadyStanley]

Check out this Podcast: The Preds' Great Run + A Potential Match Between the NCAA & CHL The Preds' Great Run + A Potential Match Between The NCAA & CHL The Jeff Marek Show podcast

Audio podcast of Marek/Malloy discussion

 

[rsteen]

It may be that the USHL merges with CHL.

Why would USA hockey hand over the only Tier I junior league in their jurisdiction to Hockey Canada?

 

[LadyStanley]

Depends on the terms of merger

 

[GKJ]

Sounds like it'll be decided by lawyers, not conferences nor coaches. NHL wants a seat at the table to ensure things work well.

It may be that the USHL merges with CHL.

Maybe they'll also include agreement for 1st rounders to play in AHL.

A great point was made about the coaches. I think on here we felt they carried a lot of weight but the reality is they don’t. If guys like Nick Saban and Jay Wright had enough of the changing landscape (which is to say they were losing control of their programs), whichever coaches against this, their opinions quite honestly aren’t worth jack shit, and they can retire or go coach pro if they want.

 

[Corso]

A great point was made about the coaches. I think on here we felt they carried a lot of weight but the reality is they don’t. If guys like Nick Saban and Jay Wright had enough of the changing landscape (which is to say they were losing control of their programs), whichever coaches against this, their opinions quite honestly aren’t worth jack shit, and they can retire or go coach pro if they want.

Not sure who really thought they carried much weight, most of us here have maintained that this is going to happen because the NCAA does not nor will not defend the rules excluding CHL players in court.

As an aside, I know some media heads proclaimed that this is very unpopular with the vast majority of college coaches but that isn't true at all. It has support from most of the smaller schools and conferences. The Big 10 and the other blueblood hockey powers are opposed to it. Not that it matters much anyway.

 

[GKJ]

Not sure who really thought they carried much weight, most of us here have maintained that this is going to happen because the NCAA does not nor will not defend the rules excluding CHL players in court.

As an aside, I know some media heads proclaimed that this is very unpopular with the vast majority of college coaches but that isn't true at all. It has support from most of the smaller schools and conferences. The Big 10 and the other blueblood hockey powers are opposed to it. Not that it matters much anyway.

Well I guess they are the most opposed to it so it was easier for them to make it known, especially since no one knows how exactly this will work

 

[sigx15]

Will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Marek’s report sounds like this is coming from NHL sources who want it to happen. I still haven’t seen any of these NHL reporters address the crux of the NCAA’s rationale for not allowing CHL players in college hockey. It’s not the stipend players receive in the CHL, it’s the fact there are CHL players under NHL contracts so the NCAA views them as playing against professionals. That could open another Pandora’s box in other sports like basketball and the G League and Euro leagues


I do agree that this probably won’t be decided by coaches rather by lawyers. I do have a hard time with the report of them saying only 14 coaches in NCAA hockey don’t want this to happen. We’ll find out in May at the NCAA coaches meeting what that number actually is but I highly doubt it’s that low

 

[cg98]

Why would USA hockey hand over the only Tier I junior league in their jurisdiction to Hockey Canada?

They wont, theyll probably just make an agreement to start featuring the USHL champion at the Memorial Cup and make some sort of CHL-USA Hockey All Star game or series.

 

[GKJ]

Will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Marek’s report sounds like this is coming from NHL sources who want it to happen. I still haven’t seen any of these NHL reporters address the crux of the NCAA’s rationale for not allowing CHL players in college hockey. It’s not the stipend players receive in the CHL, it’s the fact there are CHL players under NHL contracts so the NCAA views them as playing against professionals. That could open another Pandora’s box in other sports like basketball and the G League and Euro leagues


I do agree that this probably won’t be decided by coaches rather by lawyers. I do have a hard time with the report of them saying only 14 coaches in NCAA hockey don’t want this to happen. We’ll find out in May at the NCAA coaches meeting what that number actually is but I highly doubt it’s that low

NHL has to figure out how it affects the draft because they have two different rules depending on which league players are in.

 

[LadyStanley]

Committee formed. Sounds like it will happen due to NIL payouts. Just a matter of figuring put how to implement and get all involved parties to agree.

(It also may require some changes to CBA WRT drafting as CHL-drafted players' rights are held for 2 years vs nominally years for college players.)

 

[Yukon Joe]

Committee formed. Sounds like it will happen due to NIL payouts. Just a matter of figuring put how to implement and get all involved parties to agree.

(It also may require some changes to CBA WRT drafting as CHL-drafted players' rights are held for 2 years vs nominally years for college players.)

So I keep hearing "yeah it's only a matter of time" - but nobody seems to actually want it.

NCAA clearly doesn't want it. I'm pretty sure CHL doesn't want it. Not sure the NHL cares one way or another. So tell me again why this is going to happen?

I mean sure it screws over the players themselves, but who in power cares about that?

 

[WarriorofTime]

It would be 2025-26 at the earliest if it happened, and they'd have to really think through everything about how it would work mechanically with the NHL transfer agreement. I don't think the NCAA will allow anyone with a signed NHL Contract into the NCAA for instance as there's nothing like that in other sports at the moment.

Most important part of article (albeit one that doesn't grab headlines)

And while most of us were expecting a vote to determine if CHLers would be eligible to play in the NCAA, it didn’t happen.

While Marek brings up NIL, I'm not sure how he is with how that interacts with Student-Visas. For instance, the 2X Player of the Year in College Basketball, Zach Edey, didn't receive NIL because he is Canadian.

With most of CHL players being Canadian, it's a bit unclear how much NIL they'll be eligible for.

Mike McMahon, who publishes the excellent College Hockey Newsletter, reported this weekend that only between 15-20 per cent of college coaches were interested in changing the bylaw. However, most coaches from Atlantic Hockey and CCHA were in favour.

Essentially the bad teams want CHL players eligible, the ones that don't get NHL level prospects right now (because it'd be a lot of the undrafted/unsigned currently USports bound kids going to NCAA once their junior eligibility has expired). At the moment, it's actually harder to make the USHL than it is NCAA D1 hockey even though the USHL is a feeder into NCAA D1 (I don't think there's anything quite like that anywhere else in the Hockey Pyramid). That is because there are only 15 USHL proper teams and the USNDTP, but there are 60 NCAA D1 teams. In addition to the BCHL/AJHL, a lot of Atlantic Hockey and CCHA teams are stocking their rosters with Tier II junior players in the U.S. If you expand the pool of feeder leagues to include 60 CHL teams, the standard for an NCAA D1 player will go way up and they'll be able to build more competitive rosters to hang around with the big boys.

It sounds like the NCAA is now getting out in front of the issue if the "how" turns out to be litigation, which would end the rule quickly.

We'll see on litigation. It'll probably require an American plaintiff to make it cleaner, and there really aren't a ton of Americans in CHL, and those currently there are very consciously choosing to forfeit their ability to play NCAA hockey, so it's not an overly sympathetic case in my opinion.

I think it's a bit more complicated than Marek is making it seem. The NIL stuff has gone through quite a ringer and the NCAA's attention has naturally been focused pretty heavily around the sports that generate the most revenue, which also have the biggest appetite of boosters willing to pay big NIL $ to players, Football and Men's Basketball. Now you're dealing with a non-American league that consists primary of non-American nationals. You have a committee which is a first step, but unless there's bigger support amongst some of the bigger players in the NCAA Hockey landscape, it may have its tires kicked around a bit longer.

 

[Bjindaho]

So I keep hearing "yeah it's only a matter of time" - but nobody seems to actually want it.

NCAA clearly doesn't want it. I'm pretty sure CHL doesn't want it. Not sure the NHL cares one way or another. So tell me again why this is going to happen?

I mean sure it screws over the players themselves, but who in power cares about that?

Both the NCAA and the CHL want it (basically reduces competition between the two). It would allow the NCAA to recruit former CHL players without problems, while opening the door for more Americans to play north of the border.

It likely makes little difference for CIS, because they usually aren't recruiting stars.

The only groups that get hurt in this are the Jr. A leagues who have built their entire programs on "we're the path to the NCAA". Keep in mind that kids are still going to play Jr. A and the CJHL could still be a viable path to the USHL. Some of these leagues have basically recruited with the "you have no other options" approach which is horrible.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Both the NCAA and the CHL want it (basically reduces competition between the two). It would allow the NCAA to recruit former CHL players without problems, while opening the door for more Americans to play north of the border.

It likely makes little difference for CIS, because they usually aren't recruiting stars.

The only groups that get hurt in this are the Jr. A leagues who have built their entire programs on "we're the path to the NCAA". Keep in mind that kids are still going to play Jr. A and the CJHL could still be a viable path to the USHL. Some of these leagues have basically recruited with the "you have no other options" approach which is horrible.

But look at the article above - only 15-20% of NCAA coaches wanted it opened up to allow CHL players into the NCAA. It's only being discussed because they're afraid a lawsuit might force their hand.

 

[Bjindaho]

But look at the article above - only 15-20% of NCAA coaches wanted it opened up to allow CHL players into the NCAA. It's only being discussed because they're afraid a lawsuit might force their hand.

NEVER trust anything that comes from McMahon. To say that he has an agenda is an understatement.

Previous reports suggested that this has majority support BUT does not have a lot of support from the top teams.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

With most of CHL players being Canadian, it's a bit unclear how much NIL they'll be eligible for.

They won't be. It's pretty much a guarantee that if you are a foreign student, you are not getting a sniff of NIL payments. There's simply too much legal jumping through hoops to justify it, and lets be real, the opportunities for NIL in anything other then basketball and football is peanuts, not to mention how utterly unregulated and Wild West it is.

 

[StreetHawk]

Both the NCAA and the CHL want it (basically reduces competition between the two). It would allow the NCAA to recruit former CHL players without problems, while opening the door for more Americans to play north of the border.

It likely makes little difference for CIS, because they usually aren't recruiting stars.

The only groups that get hurt in this are the Jr. A leagues who have built their entire programs on "we're the path to the NCAA". Keep in mind that kids are still going to play Jr. A and the CJHL could still be a viable path to the USHL. Some of these leagues have basically recruited with the "you have no other options" approach which is horrible.

See how this goes. In simplest terms competition in chl is better through to your draft year. Once drafted ncaa with older players probably more competitive. But seen plenty of chl kids raise their production significantly after their draft year so leaving for ncaa at 19 for them may be the best option.

Being out west, have a soft spot for the kids that have to move over 2-3 provinces to play once drafted.