NCAA DI Men's Hockey: Independents or New Conferences?

[JMCx4]

Starting the convo, courtesy of College Hockey News ...

June 10, 2022

With Growing Number of Independents, New Conference Talks Heat Up​

by Adam Wodon/Managing Editor ..

The bevy of independent programs scheduled to play this year, have been talking to each other about the possibility of forming a new conference or conferences. But simply due to the logistics of wrangling everyone together, the probability of it happening soon is currently low. Not impossible, however.

Last season, Alaska, Long Island and Arizona State played as independents. This coming season, Alaska-Anchorage, Stonehill and Lindenwood gets added to the mix. There's also Utica, potentially.

Playing an independent schedule is possible, as we've seen, but teams/schools want to guarantee home games. That's what a conference schedule brings. Although six schools are needed for a conference to be eligible for an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament, teams appear willing to create conferences with fewer than six teams, just to ensure the schedule and home games.

There have been multiple permutations of schools getting together on various calls. ...

Read more at:

With Growing Number of Independents, New Conference Talks Heat Up

But it's a tangled web, full of hope and frustration.

www.collegehockeynews.com

Click to read more...

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I mean.... there's a reason why the the NCHC formed, and why the CCHA reformed by running away from WCHA's Alaska schools. Travel is prohibitively expensive, so a more compact conference is for the best.

If Arizona St and the Alaskas and any other schools want to form a conference, by all means do so. But man will the travel and costs be bad for players and programs alike.

But teams closer to existing conferences are assuredly going to try to join them instead.

 

[Ridge1982]

Would prefer Lindenwood pair up with LIU, Stonehill, etc in the East.

 

[JMCx4]

Lindenwood looks like a CCHA geographical fit to me. But that would take some convincing of the existing members.

 

[mk80]

The talk of the CHN piece sounds like coming together to form a conference is more for scheduling purposes than anything else. The NCAA hockey landscape is going to continue to change and the conference situation will as well.

The surprising take away is the mention of St. Anselm being in the discussion.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

The talk of the CHN piece sounds like coming together to form a conference is more for scheduling purposes than anything else. The NCAA hockey landscape is going to continue to change and the conference situation will as well.

The surprising take away is the mention of St. Anselm being in the discussion.

Not really. They've been Division II for a long time, but the Division II hockey championship went away around 1997. They've been playing in the NE-10 against other Division II schools, and with Stonehill going to Division I, they probably figure they might as well too, especially since they're a better school academically and have better facilities than Stonehill.

 

[Ridge1982]

Lindenwood looks like a CCHA geographical fit to me. But that would take some convincing of the existing members.

View attachment 559637

Thing is LU called and the CCHA didn’t answer, so on to plan B.

 

[Bonk]

Thing is LU called and the CCHA didn’t answer, so on to plan B.

Stupid question: Would the NCHC consider Lindenwood? It seems better geographically aligned to that conference and could balance out the "murderer's row" aspect of the league.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Thing is LU called and the CCHA didn’t answer, so on to plan B.

All they needed was a rubber stamp!

Stupid question: Would the NCHC consider Lindenwood? It seems better geographically aligned to that conference and could balance out the "murderer's row" aspect of the league.

Why would one of the top conferences in college hockey consider adding a school that will be non-competitive for a decade, at minimum? And why would a school who probably won't win ten games in each of its first two seasons (or basically ever, if the women's team is an indication of how much support they'll get from the administration) want to get steamrolled annually?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

NCHC wants major hockey programs, not upstarts. If Lindenwood turns into a solid, profitable program, then that might change the equation, but NCHC is the top billing for non-Big Ten schools in the region, and I don't see them settling for a program as small and untested as Lindenwood.

That being said, I'm surprised that the CCHA isn't interested. You'd think that having access to the St. Louis market would make them interested even though the program is otherwise untested.

 

[mk80]

In the CHN interview with Zombo from a few days ago, here is what was said about conferences regarding LU. For Lindenwood, the CCHA provides the best fit for them. But from the CCHA perspective I think at this point in time it comes down LU being on what could be considered the very edge of the conference's footprint.. And rightfully so I think given how the LU women's program has done in it's time as a DI program, the LU men's team are going to have to prove themselves as program.

CHN: Getting back to Lindenwood, is it important to you to have a conference and what is that going to look like? Or do you not worry about that right now? I know there's some talks going on, but I don't know how formal they are.

Zombo: To me, it's all about a schedule. Without a schedule you can't recruit players. We got 30 Division I games this year. We did it in a matter of eight or nine days. A conference, that's up to athletic directors. That's what it's supposed to be. If you have a bunch of coaches that are working on realignment or working on schedules — everything is about what's going to give you an edge on wins. Like, (as a coach) I don't want to go to the NCHC. Why would I get beat up. But geographically it's perfect. ... So, you're talking about the CCHA, that's geographically perfect. Now it's all about the bottom line and the budget. Obviously anything in the East is out of whack. In the Atlantic, obviously Air Force is close to us, but everything else ...

CHN: It doesn't sound like the CCHA is going to add more, they added one, I don't know. But all these independent schools out there, can something happen there?

Zombo: I've had regular conversations with those programs. So yeah, there's five programs, what happens is, one gets pulled (into a league) and now you don't have a league, because now you only have four standing. You're looking at a program — Arizona State, you don't think it's pretty enticing to visit Arizona State because now they have a rink built. What have they been playing, six, seven years — look at the success (Greg) Powers has had with that. So where we are, knock on wood, we're playing some really big name hockey powers coming up this fall. We have a schedule started already for '23, and right now we could potentially have four Big Ten schools on our schedule for next year. Well, guess what? Lindenwood's gonna be on the Big Ten Network, you know? Whether we play one team or four teams, it's on Big Ten Network. It's about relationships, and coaches want to compete. ... It's like if I sit down at the black jack table, I'm not worrying about who's at the end of the table if I play my cards the way it's supposed to be played. You know what I mean, Adam? I'm playing to win. I'm concerned I'm teaching my guys how to win, we have to win, win, win. And I'm going to have my hands full.

CHN: Well, is it safe to say you want to be a conference eventually, but you're not freaking out about it? You can be patient with it? Is that fair to say?

Zombo: Well sure. It's not different than recruiting. I'd love to be in Don Lucia's conference. So they add St. Thomas, and then they add Augustana. You know, everybody has choices, and you move on. But that works for me geographically. But the bottom line is it comes down to the bottom line.

It sounds like the independents might get together for scheduling purposes in a temporary conference that may or may not have enough for a tournament auto bid even. But as Zombo indicates in his interview, that has the potential to break up quickly especially with a program such as ASU likely going to have a couple of suitors with their program moving into it's new arena finally. LU is going to have to prove themselves worthy as a program, and that's where the focus is going to be for them. On that note, they'll be baptized in fire this season with games announced against Minnesota, Michigan, North Dakota, Denver, etc.

 

[JMCx4]

The tone I get from Zombo's responses is that he was not enthusiastic about this interview. Probably not out of character for him.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

In the CHN interview with Zombo from a few days ago, here is what was said about conferences regarding LU. For Lindenwood, the CCHA provides the best fit for them. But from the CCHA perspective I think at this point in time it comes down LU being on what could be considered the very edge of the conference's footprint.. And rightfully so I think given how the LU women's program has done in it's time as a DI program, the LU men's team are going to have to prove themselves as program.



It sounds like the independents might get together for scheduling purposes in a temporary conference that may or may not have enough for a tournament auto bid even. But as Zombo indicates in his interview, that has the potential to break up quickly especially with a program such as ASU likely going to have a couple of suitors with their program moving into it's new arena finally. LU is going to have to prove themselves worthy as a program, and that's where the focus is going to be for them. On that note, they'll be baptized in fire this season with games announced against Minnesota, Michigan, North Dakota, Denver, etc.

They'll be lucky to win three games.

 

[JMCx4]

News worth resurrecting this thread ... Outgoing AHA/CHA Commissioner Robert DeGregorio was interviewed this evening during the RIT @ Niagara game. He broke the news that he is working with the NCAA to add "a new 6 or 7 team conference" in men's DI hockey. He was being interviewed in the closing minutes of 1st period play, so I got distracted; but I believe he said the target start for this conference was 2024-25. That date can be confirmed once FloHockey.tv posts their RIT v NU game replay.

 

[JMCx4]

Corrections/additions to my poor transcription above of outgoing Commish DeGregorio's comments re. a new DI men's conference ... "Well right now we're hoping if we can get 6 teams, we've got 5 committed, before the Fall of 2024, probably late May or June of 2024, we could be announcing the start of another Division I men's ice hockey league that will be with either 6 or 7 teams at this point. So, can't give a lot of details, but we're working on that. And I have agreed, just so you know, to work with them for the first two years of the league. ..."

 

[mk80]

Very likely a "new" conference would feature the rest of the Northeast 10 schools elevating to D1. They are currently a 6 team conference right now. Very likely that Stonehill would then rejoin them and maybe LIU to make an 8 team circuit since they've struggled at getting a conference home.

It's worth noting that DeGregorio already is the commissioner of the NEWHA conference in women's hockey which features many of the same Northeast 10 schools plus LIU.

 

[JMCx4]

Very likely a "new" conference would feature the rest of the Northeast 10 schools elevating to D1. They are currently a 6 team conference right now. Very likely that Stonehill would then rejoin them and maybe LIU to make an 8 team circuit since they've struggled at getting a conference home. ...

OK, I've gotta admit, your speculation beats the crap outta my murky thought experiment of Lindenwood & a new Tennessee State team & a steal of Miami-Ohio from NCHC joining forces with the two resurrected Alaska programs plus the ultimate prize of ASU. Team #7 is left to someone else's wild (and borderline insane) imagination.

 

[mk80]

OK, I've gotta admit, your speculation beats the crap outta my murky thought experiment of Lindenwood & a new Tennessee State team & a steal of Miami-Ohio from NCDC joining forces with the two resurrected Alaska programs plus the ultimate prize of ASU. Team #7 is left to someone else's wild (and borderline insane) imagination.

Well I've been wrong before, so we can't rule other scenarios entirely. However here's my thoughts on some of those schools:

While it's not necessarily a secret Miami (OH) is unhappy in the NCHC. They don't want to pay the exit fee to move. If they did, they're likely a lock for the CCHA. But we also have to see what comes out of the ever increasing talk of Summit League hockey coming to fruition which could allow them to make that CCHA move.

ASU has been flirting with all of the NCHC, CCHA, and B1G. In my estimation they are most likely destined for the NCHC, especially since outside of hockey B1G westward expansion has seemingly left ASU, and Arizona off the table.

Tennessee State is one that I'm hopeful my thinking about them being just a PR move is wrong. But it's been all quiet on that front since the Preds paid for a study. Even then so far only Lindenwood has been the only school as part of a NHL sponsored study to actually add D1 men's hockey. I do think the way LU's season has gone they've generated some interest from conferences. They are still on an island for the CCHA geographically, but LU does give the conference some advantages, the biggest of which being LU is now a full DI athletic department, and the CCHA is lacking schools like that with the majority of their membership playing up in hockey. And while their record doesn't show it at 7-17 currently, they've been very competitive against all of the powerhouse programs they've played. And conferences definitely wanted to see that from them. Overall between NCHC and CCHA I think the CCHA is the best fit for both the conference and LU. But we'll see what happens going forward.

The Alaska schools will be best served if there is ever a true western conference formed, particularly one including some pacific northwestern institutions. ASU in the past has talked about wanting to inspire more PAC-12 schools to get into hockey, but nothing has really come from it. The only movement for NCAA college hockey expansion out west so far has been UNLV desperately trying to convince their school and athletic department to throw them some funding. I still think UNLV is far away from adding NCAA hockey, and that's if they ever do. Some in the ACHA believe they just use the talk as a carrot to dangle in front of recruits.

 

[JMCx4]

... Tennessee State is one that I'm hopeful my thinking about them being just a PR move is wrong. But it's been all quiet on that front since the Preds paid for a study. Even then so far only Lindenwood has been the only school as part of a NHL sponsored study to actually add D1 men's hockey. ...

One of the "growth of ice hockey" topics that outgoing AHA/CHA Commissioner DeGregorio touched on during last week's interview was the importance of College Hockey Inc.'s involvement - and funding (IIRC) - in the NHL-sponsored studies for the various universities' athletic depts. I don't get what CHI's overall mission is, but the Commish was highly complimentary & I got the impression that they have had a large influence on where & how (and maybe when) schools pursue a DI hockey program.

 

[S E P H]

Well I've been wrong before, so we can't rule other scenarios entirely. However here's my thoughts on some of those schools:

While it's not necessarily a secret Miami (OH) is unhappy in the NCHC. They don't want to pay the exit fee to move. If they did, they're likely a lock for the CCHA. But we also have to see what comes out of the ever increasing talk of Summit League hockey coming to fruition which could allow them to make that CCHA move.

ASU has been flirting with all of the NCHC, CCHA, and B1G. In my estimation they are most likely destined for the NCHC, especially since outside of hockey B1G westward expansion has seemingly left ASU, and Arizona off the table.

Tennessee State is one that I'm hopeful my thinking about them being just a PR move is wrong. But it's been all quiet on that front since the Preds paid for a study. Even then so far only Lindenwood has been the only school as part of a NHL sponsored study to actually add D1 men's hockey. I do think the way LU's season has gone they've generated some interest from conferences. They are still on an island for the CCHA geographically, but LU does give the conference some advantages, the biggest of which being LU is now a full DI athletic department, and the CCHA is lacking schools like that with the majority of their membership playing up in hockey. And while their record doesn't show it at 7-17 currently, they've been very competitive against all of the powerhouse programs they've played. And conferences definitely wanted to see that from them. Overall between NCHC and CCHA I think the CCHA is the best fit for both the conference and LU. But we'll see what happens going forward.

The Alaska schools will be best served if there is ever a true western conference formed, particularly one including some pacific northwestern institutions. ASU in the past has talked about wanting to inspire more PAC-12 schools to get into hockey, but nothing has really come from it. The only movement for NCAA college hockey expansion out west so far has been UNLV desperately trying to convince their school and athletic department to throw them some funding. I still think UNLV is far away from adding NCAA hockey, and that's if they ever do. Some in the ACHA believe they just use the talk as a carrot to dangle in front of recruits.

Agree on all accounts, Summit League would probably be the second major conference alignment if it ever takes place.

With ASU being a P5 school and having a brand new arena, I think they should now be locks for eventual NCHC (especially if those rumours of Miami wanting out are true) expansion.

Were all the teams that conducted the viability study ever revealed? I remember there were five and I think three of them were disclosed to be Illinois, Oakland University, and now Lindenwood. So, that means two are still redacted and perhaps the remaining were a combination of Navy, Stonehill, Liberty, and/or that super-rich private Christian/Protestant university in North Carolina/Florida that I totally forgot the name for (they're the school which wants to rise every one of their sports to DI).

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Agree on all accounts, Summit League would probably be the second major conference alignment if it ever takes place.

With ASU being a P5 school and having a brand new arena, I think they should now be locks for eventual NCHC (especially if those rumours of Miami wanting out are true) expansion.

Were all the teams that conducted the viability study ever revealed? I remember there were five and I think three of them were disclosed to be Illinois, Oakland University, and now Lindenwood. So, that means two are still redacted and perhaps the remaining were a combination of Navy, Stonehill, Liberty, and/or that super-rich private Christian/Protestant university in North Carolina/Florida that I totally forgot the name for (they're the school which wants to rise every one of their sports to DI).

Tennessee State was one of the other teams that had a study done, but there's no donor base or endowment there to cover the cost of a hockey program.

Oakland and Illinois will not happen.

If Liberty, which shouldn't even be accredited as a university, wanted to have Division I hockey, they'd have it, because the money and donor base is there.

Stonehill is going to be Division I - they've played five Division I opponents this year on the men's side and a full schedule on the women's.

I don't know what school you're referring to in NC or Florida, but there are tons of bible-thumping college down there, none of which are anywhere close to adding hockey. High Point, in NC, talked about adding hockey, but there hasn't been much heard from them in a while.

As far as expansion goes, conferences have to be willing to admit new members for the good of the game, and so far, they haven't been. For example, Alabama-Huntsville's problems largely stem from the lack of a conference to play in, and that dates back to the old CCHA's refusal to take UAH.

 

[S E P H]

Tennessee State was one of the other teams that had a study done, but there's no donor base or endowment there to cover the cost of a hockey program.

Oakland and Illinois will not happen.

If Liberty, which shouldn't even be accredited as a university, wanted to have Division I hockey, they'd have it, because the money and donor base is there.

Stonehill is going to be Division I - they've played five Division I opponents this year on the men's side and a full schedule on the women's.

I don't know what school you're referring to in NC or Florida, but there are tons of bible-thumping college down there, none of which are anywhere close to adding hockey. High Point, in NC, talked about adding hockey, but there hasn't been much heard from them in a while.

As far as expansion goes, conferences have to be willing to admit new members for the good of the game, and so far, they haven't been. For example, Alabama-Huntsville's problems largely stem from the lack of a conference to play in, and that dates back to the old CCHA's refusal to take UAH.

Yes, it was High Point! The problem with college hockey expansion is that it's still crazy regionalized and nobody wants to be the genesis school of a new region. We've seen what happened with UAH taking the risk and folding, and we've seen what happened to the Alaska teams with the conference realignment. The majority of all expansion teams have been in the greater north around the Great Lakes which already has an established hockey culture or in NE which is predominately the hockey hotbed of college hockey. The only exception is Arizona State, but if I recall, they had one of the best club teams in the country and is a school which will attract a lot of players due to the school's history and location.

 

[mk80]

For example, Alabama-Huntsville's problems largely stem from the lack of a conference to play in, and that dates back to the old CCHA's refusal to take UAH.

Regarding UAH, they also haven't really given a conference reason to accept them. No conference will ever want to take on an unstable program, that folds, or talks about folding every few years. The best thing the school's board could have done to show they were serious this time around is actually play an independent schedule, but instead they took the donation money and said we want to be in a conference before we play. Well other than the CCHA with Augustana no conference will accept a team that's not actively playing.

Agree on all accounts, Summit League would probably be the second major conference alignment if it ever takes place.

With ASU being a P5 school and having a brand new arena, I think they should now be locks for eventual NCHC (especially if those rumours of Miami wanting out are true) expansion.

Were all the teams that conducted the viability study ever revealed? I remember there were five and I think three of them were disclosed to be Illinois, Oakland University, and now Lindenwood. So, that means two are still redacted and perhaps the remaining were a combination of Navy, Stonehill, Liberty, and/or that super-rich private Christian/Protestant university in North Carolina/Florida that I totally forgot the name for (they're the school which wants to rise every one of their sports to DI).

Oakland, Illinois, LU, and TN State were the only ones to be named. So the 5th school is a mystery, but I do doubt it is any of Navy, Stonehill, or Liberty. Liberty and Navy are both ones that could if they wanted to do it, obviously Liberty has the facility for it, and the financial backing. But they've never made a move toward anything more than being a top ACHA program, Navy has flirted on and off with NCAA hockey and with government who knows what happens. Stonehill was a case of the school itself transitioning it's athletic department from D2 to the D1 level.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Regarding UAH, they also haven't really given a conference reason to accept them. No conference will ever want to take on an unstable program, that folds, or talks about folding every few years. The best thing the school's board could have done to show they were serious this time around is actually play an independent schedule, but instead they took the donation money and said we want to be in a conference before we play. Well other than the CCHA with Augustana no conference will accept a team that's not actively playing.

At the time they were trying to get into the CCHA - around 2003/04/05 - they were a stable program. If the CCHA had taken them, a lot of the turmoil with UAH hockey wouldn't have happened.

But at the time, you had a bunch of Big Ten ADs in charge in the CCHA, and they weren't taking a small school that wasn't in Ohio.