Nashville sale thread--Leipold PULLS OUT of sale, Balsillie's bid OUT

[Stanley Foobrick]

I think he might be intimating that it is you who should apologize for mis-stating the ticket program in a very material way.

PS - Bluesclues, thanks. I noticed your response after reading further in the thread. I am playing catchup after being out all day.

I said I'm sorry but I must politely disagree. I don't think a fully refundable at any moment ticket drive gives a fair view of the picture.

But then again, a lot of people watched Al Gore's movie and believe everything in it %100.

 

[mr. Blase]

I do take - in part only - your point about Hess Village. I neglected that because no Hamiltonian would think of Hess Village as being "downtown", which stretches from Copps to perhaps John Street, between King and Main. Hess Village is really in a residential nieghbourhood. However, just so everybody knows, Hess Village is one tiny block perhaps 300 yards long where there are approximately 8 to 10 bars. It is approximately half a mile from Copps, about ten minutes walk. Every one of these 8 to 10 bars are housed in old style 2-2.5 story converted houses. They are filled on Friday and Saturday with perhaps 400 to 500 people.

Ten restaurants downtown with chefs? Please name them. I would be delighted to hear.

30,000 people working downtown? I highly doubt it. There are seven office towers downtown, one of which is a little over 20 stories and all of the rest of which are 17 stories tops. There is a mall that is half empty. There are rows of mostly empty retail stores lining King Street. There is a courthouse on Main Street and little else besides a couple of tiny strip malls.

Get a load of this guy! He continues to underrate his own city. Perhaps you should get out more often gscarpenter.

There are indeed 30,000 people working downtown (www.downtownhamilton.org/CharimansMessage.asp) and three office towers over 20 floors plus several in the 15-20 range. Hamilton is no office town (how could it be with TO so close), but it holds its own.

Somehow with only the two restaurants downtown, they managed to have a "Taste of Downtown Hamilton" restaurant tour advertised last time I was there in May.

Hess Village would be a welcome addition to any city, with over 20 establishments on a cobblestone street and a great urban/street atmosphere. 400-500 people, yeah right. You haven't been there on a Friday night. So it's not right downtown. You can walk there from downtown in five minutes and it's only about two or three blocks from Copps. Pretty soon you'll have to constrain downtown to the intersection of King and James in order to maintain your fallacious assertions!

 

[Stanley Foobrick]

Downtown Hamilton, if your looking for Dollar Stores and Bingo Halls, it's the place to be .

 

[mr. Blase]

Blase, do you have a source for this? I had not heard it.

I misread it, so many damn articles to read lately! I thought it said non-refundable but it was the ticket drive back in the expansion days that was non refundable.

 

[Stanley Foobrick]

I misread it, so many damn articles to read lately! I thought it said non-refundable but it was the ticket drive back in the expansion days that was non refundable.

Not sure which expansion you are talking about the Tim Horton's/ Ron Joyce bid got over 13,000 $100 fully refundable deposits. Just saw that last night on CH Hamilton news, so no link is possible.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

I certainly will take it for what it's worth. Your unwillingness to take me up on that offer speaks volumes in fact. I can certainly appreciate that hiding behind an enigmatic pseudonym is much more comfortable. As to me "beefing up" my arguments, it was you who inappropriately questioned my professional abilities. I responded as I did. It is a real eye-roller for you to suggest that I was beefing up my arguments.

For that matter, however, whether you like it or not, when it comes to matters of business and even more with respect to matters of the law, opinions regarding those matters ARE made stronger by the credentials of the person providing them. Are you suggesting that an opinion regarding the law from some half-assed poster on here are of the same weight as an opinion offered by a living breathing lawyer? Of course you aren't. The same principle applies to just about everything that is discussed on this board. In discussions of TV ratings, if a psoter came on here who worked in the network or cable business, I would accord their statements of facts, and even their opinions, greater weight than mine or yours. This is as it should be.

No, but here is what I will say. If you come to these boards and discuss issues with fellow posters, you need to show some level of respect and not try to trump people using your "I am a lawyer stamp" which is BTW not even verifiable and doesn’t really mean anything in my experience (there are a ton of bad lawyers out there). Most lawyers I know, and I’m not speaking for myself (take that FWIW), would not reveal much personal information about themselves while engaging a ‘hobby’ or ‘interest,’ in this case, posting on an internet message board. I have been very careful not to claim any professional status or insider knowledge on any of the issues discussed here and have preferred to use links to major media sources. To do otherwise would do more to undermine credibility and could be professional suicide in certain cases. I hope you understand what I mean.

GHOST

 

[GSC2k2*]

I misread it, so many damn articles to read lately! I thought it said non-refundable but it was the ticket drive back in the expansion days that was non refundable.

Noted.

 

[mr. Blase]

For many of the reasons you have stated, but which some of the schlubs on this board have ignored, I actually think that Balsillie's original "game plan" went way out the window some time ago. I actually think that what we are witnessng is a complete cluster**** on the part of Balsillie and his counsel. It is completely botched, and Balsillie is going about it in a completely hamhanded way.

I think you're right about this, Balsillie & co. are improvising here and driven by emotion. Their only goal is to get a team in Ontario. They failed with Pittsburgh. This Nashville thing could still go either way. It's starting to look bad for Balsillie with the BoG not having this on the agenda next week, the difficulties with the lease in Nashville and Bettman's obvious disdain for moving the team.
If this attempt fails, he might not have another chance. That's why I still give Balsillie a chance to win this: he's driven, he has resources, and he'll pull out every stop to achieve his goal.

 

[william_adams]

I think you're right about this, Balsillie & co. are improvising here and driven by emotion. Their only goal is to get a team in Ontario. They failed with Pittsburgh. This Nashville thing could still go either way. It's starting to look bad for Balsillie with the BoG not having this on the agenda next week, the difficulties with the lease in Nashville and Bettman's obvious disdain for moving the team.
If this attempt fails, he might not have another chance. That's why I still give Balsillie a chance to win this: he's driven, he has resources, and he'll pull out every stop to achieve his goal.

i think he has plainly shown that there are plenty of fans, deep pocketed potential ownership, and at least a temporary place to play. i have said it before, but i can't help thinking that the NHL would just be sticking their collective heads in sand if they don't recognize this. Doesn't have to be nashville (perhaps it shouldn't be Nashville), doesn't even have to be Balsillie (though i for one believe he deserves a bit more respect for pushing this issue) but another team in southern ontario seems like a no brainer...

 

[Stanley Foobrick]

I think you're right about this, Balsillie & co. are improvising here and driven by emotion. Their only goal is to get a team in Ontario. They failed with Pittsburgh. This Nashville thing could still go either way. It's starting to look bad for Balsillie with the BoG not having this on the agenda next week, the difficulties with the lease in Nashville and Bettman's obvious disdain for moving the team.
If this attempt fails, he might not have another chance. That's why I still give Balsillie a chance to win this: he's driven, he has resources, and he'll pull out every stop to achieve his goal.

Perhaps the BOG is trying to slow this machine down to see if there is any truth to a local Nashville ownership group planning to get involved, as this article suggests....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...5.wsptpreds15/BNStory/GlobeSportsHockey/home/

 

[nomorekids]

well i don't want ti interrupt your nice discussion, but i think it hasn't been posted here yet


http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=8048
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070615/SPORTS02/70615086

This isn't earth shattering or even news. It was a foregone conclusion that Leipold would do this, and likely agreed to it as part of the sale. There's a reason that Preds posters, including myself, have been talking about "14,000 average." It's because of the escape clause, and we weren't preparing for the "what-if," but rather the "when."

 

[GSC2k2*]

Get a load of this guy! He continues to underrate his own city. Perhaps you should get out more often gscarpenter.

There are indeed 30,000 people working downtown (www.downtownhamilton.org/CharimansMessage.asp) and three office towers over 20 floors plus several in the 15-20 range. Hamilton is no office town (how could it be with TO so close), but it holds its own.

Somehow with only the two restaurants downtown, they managed to have a "Taste of Downtown Hamilton" restaurant tour advertised last time I was there in May.

Hess Village would be a welcome addition to any city, with over 20 establishments on a cobblestone street and a great urban/street atmosphere. 400-500 people, yeah right. You haven't been there on a Friday night. So it's not right downtown. You can walk there from downtown in five minutes and it's only about two or three blocks from Copps. Pretty soon you'll have to constrain downtown to the intersection of King and James in order to maintain your fallacious assertions!

Well, I have young kids, so I certainly do not get out as often as I once did, but I have spent my share of time in Hess Village. 20 establishments? Uh uh. I will grant that it is by a mile the coolest part of Hamilton below the mountain brow, though (and perhaps including the mountain). But I did want to dispell the thoguht that it has a bunch of big, full-sized bars. It is a bunch of houses converted into little bars. Lots of cool, if one likes that retro feel, but not a big conglomeration.

Sorry, but I will not accept the unverified statement of the chairman of a downtown booster organization (with all due respect to Mr. Bullock, who is with a fine and respected firm).

BTW, in thinking about this, I do seem to recall that there is a tandoori joint somewhere downtown also (forgive me, i despise that cuisine), and an italian joint on John street whose name escapes me.

 

[sluggo*]

This isn't earth shattering or even news. It was a foregone conclusion that Leipold would do this, and likely agreed to it as part of the sale. There's a reason that Preds posters, including myself, have been talking about "14,000 average." It's because of the escape clause, and we weren't preparing for the "what-if," but rather the "when."

Even if the team gets the 14,000+ they need this year, it won't stop Balsillie. He'll use that clause (pay 27 million etc...) to break the clause, or start throwing money at the other party until he disolve it.

 

[nomorekids]

Even if the team gets the 14,000+ they need this year, it won't stop Balsillie. He'll use that clause (pay 27 million etc...) to break the clause, or start throwing money at the other party until he disolve it.

Do I need to show you the quotes, AGAIN, where Bettman and Daly have said that as long as there is a lease, the team WILL NOT go anywhere? Or point out that it's not a foregone conclusion that the city would let him buy out?

 

[Stanley Foobrick]

Even if the team gets the 14,000+ they need this year, it won't stop Balsillie. He'll use that clause (pay 27 million etc...) to break the clause, or start throwing money at the other party until he disolve it.

....and then pour money in Copps because you can't even move on the concourse when 6,000+ are there. He then has to do something about the Maple Leafs and the Sabres. Bill Gates, maybe.....

 

[sluggo*]

Do I need to show you the quotes, AGAIN, where Bettman and Daly have said that as long as there is a lease, the team WILL NOT go anywhere? Or point out that it's not a foregone conclusion that the city would let him buy out?

There is a break clause in the lease. And if neither party enforces the lease, theres nothing keeping him there, they can dissolve it.

Here's a guy who over spent (maybe) by 100 million to get the team, he wants it in Hamilton. I think its very reasonable/realistic to expect him to throw as much money as needed to get out of that lease. Sooner or later you get a $ figure the city can't say no too.

 

[mr. Blase]

i think he has plainly shown that there are plenty of fans, deep pocketed potential ownership, and at least a temporary place to play. i have said it before, but i can't help thinking that the NHL would just be sticking their collective heads in sand if they don't recognize this. Doesn't have to be nashville (perhaps it shouldn't be Nashville), doesn't even have to be Balsillie (though i for one believe he deserves a bit more respect for pushing this issue) but another team in southern ontario seems like a no brainer...

I think most people agree that you could plop a team pretty much anywhere in the Golden Horseshoe and fill the arena. Personally, I'd like to see Hamilton get a team because it's the only way I could emotionally extricate myself from the Leafs. But it's not about what you or I want or what Balsillie wants, the NHL itself has the most sway here, and they have other plans. The NHL's dream of a big US media deal may be unrealistic, but that's what they're after and a team in Ontario doesn't help them with that.

Perhaps the BOG is trying to slow this machine down to see if there is any truth to a local Nashville ownership group planning to get involved, as this article suggests....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...5.wsptpreds15/BNStory/GlobeSportsHockey/home/

No doubt about that, they would like the team to stay in Nashville. I'm sceptical that a last ditch local effort will save the team though. They might, but if the team ended up in KC, the NHL wouldn't be all that displeased.

 

[nomorekids]

....and then pour money in Copps because you can't even move on the concourse when 6,000+ are there. He then has to do something about the Maple Leafs and the Sabres. Bill Gates, maybe.....

Just go check out the Preds board. Vanek is of the belief that Balsilliie is a) made of an interminable amount of money and b) willing to blow his entire fortune to make Vanek-26's boyhood dream of owning a Mighty Hamtaro of Hamilton Ontario jersey a reality.

But then again...you're assuming Balsillie will have to pay Toronto and Buffalo, because apparently, "none of the NHL's bylaws are enforceable, if Balsillie chooses to bring it to the outside courts"

 

[Stanley Foobrick]

There is a break clause in the lease. And if neither party enforces the lease, theres nothing keeping him there, they can dissolve it.

Here's a guy who over spent (maybe) by 100 million to get the team, he wants it in Hamilton. I think its very reasonable/realistic to expect him to throw as much money as needed to get out of that lease. Sooner or later you get a $ figure the city can't say no too.

Please, oh please, show me a quote were Balsillie or his flunky have said they WANT the team in Hamilton. Show me that and I won't post on this thread again.

 

[nomorekids]

No doubt about that, they would like the team to stay in Nashville. I'm sceptical that a last ditch local effort will save the team though. They might, but if the team ended up in KC, the NHL wouldn't be all that displeased.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not overly optimistic...cautiously, but not overly...about this news...but if some of the names rumored at this early juncture to be involved ARE involved...this won't be something to shrug off.

 

[Stanley Foobrick]

Just go check out the Preds board. Vanek is of the belief that Balsilliie is a) made of an interminable amount of money and b) willing to blow his entire fortune to make Vanek-26's boyhood dream of owning a Mighty Hamtaro of Hamilton Ontario jersey a reality.

But then again...you're assuming Balsillie will have to pay Toronto and Buffalo, because apparently, "none of the NHL's bylaws are enforceable, if Balsillie chooses to bring it to the outside courts"

I feel he would have to pay somehow, either by direct cash to Buffalo and Toronto or by time and money dragging it through the courts.

 

[Fugu]

Perhaps the BOG is trying to slow this machine down to see if there is any truth to a local Nashville ownership group planning to get involved, as this article suggests....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...5.wsptpreds15/BNStory/GlobeSportsHockey/home/

Leipold has an intent to purchase agreement from Balsillie. The other group cannot get involved until Balsillie's offer is withdrawn/rejected (or whatever escape clauses he has built in are viable and executed).

 

[Stanley Foobrick]

Leipold has an intent to purchase agreement from Balsillie. The other group cannot get involved until Balsillie's offer is withdrawn/rejected (or whatever escape clauses he has built in are viable and executed).

...exactly, the BOG don't want to make a decision to quickly on Balsillie. If they slow this down a little then can find out if this group is for real or not. A month or two from now if this group makes some real headway and become a legitimate option the BOG could then turn down Balsillie's offer. Knowing full well there was another group that was willing to keep the team in Nashville.

 

[sluggo*]

Please, oh please, show me a quote were Balsillie or his flunky have said they WANT the team in Hamilton. Show me that and I won't post on this thread again.

Canadian billionaire Jim Balsillie launched a ticket drive and ad campaign in southern Ontario today, in an effort to prove Hamilton has what it takes to become the future home of the NHL's Nashville Predators.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...illie_hamilton_070614/20070614?hub=TopStories

Jim Balsillie wants to prove Hamilton is a viable NHL market.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/news_story/?ID=210730&hubname=nhl-predators

Those and the various other reports saying the samething pretty much say it all. But don't stop coming here, I would never want anyone to leave the board, the reason they are here to see ideas and opinions.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not overly optimistic...cautiously, but not overly...about this news...but if some of the names rumored at this early juncture to be involved ARE involved...this won't be something to shrug off.

I believe Balsillie's offer has to fall through first, and that isn't likely to happen.

 

[sluggo*]

...exactly, the BOG don't want to make a decision to quickly on Balsillie. If they slow this down a little then can find out if this group is for real or not. A month or two from now if this group makes some real headway and become a legitimate option the BOG could then turn down Balsillie's offer. Knowing full well there was another group that was willing to keep the team in Nashville.

I find it very unlikely that a group of people who couldn't be bothered to even watch the Predators would spend 140 million (since thats apparently whta the team is worth, so I'll gow ith that number) on a team thats lost something like 50 million since coming into the league.