NA players stats vs Soviet players

[Namba 17]

Players with more than 6 games who played at least two tournament were taken. I didn't take defensemen. WC were included as well.
Edit. Tables were edited, because I forgot to add 1969 game to Perreault stats. Here are edited tables:

Table 1. By PPG

	Player	GP	G	A	P	PPG	GPG
1	Lemieux	8	6	7	13	1,63	0,75
2	Perreault	10	7	9	16	1,60	0,70
3	Gretzky	16	8	17	25	1,56	0,50
4	Esposito	13	8	8	16	1,23	0,62
5	B. Hull	14	13	3	16	1,14	0,93
6	Bossy	8	4	5	9	1,13	0,50
7	Lafleur	13	4	8	12	0,92	0,31
8	Howe	10	4	5	9	0,90	0,40
9	Trottier	9	2	5	7	0,78	0,22
10	Goulet	8	3	3	6	0,75	0,38
11	Middleton	7	3	2	5	0,71	0,43
12	Messier	13	4	5	9	0,69	0,31
13	Ratelle	8	2	3	5	0,63	0,25
14	Hawerchuk	14	1	7	8	0,57	0,07
15	Sittler	9	1	4	5	0,56	0,11
16	Cournoyer	9	3	2	5	0,56	0,33
17	Clarke	17	4	5	9	0,53	0,24
18	Yzerman	9	3	1	4	0,44	0,33
19	Dionne	12	2	3	5	0,42	0,17
20	Gartner	15	2	2	4	0,27	0,13

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Table 2. By GPG

	Player	GP	G	A	P	PPG	GPG
1	B. Hull	14	13	3	16	1,14	0,93
2	Lemieux	8	6	7	13	1,63	0,75
3	Perreault	10	7	9	16	1,60	0,70
4	Esposito	13	8	8	16	1,23	0,62
5	Gretzky	16	8	17	25	1,56	0,50
6	Bossy	8	4	5	9	1,13	0,50
7	Middleton	7	3	2	5	0,71	0,43
8	Howe	10	4	5	9	0,90	0,40
9	Goulet	8	3	3	6	0,75	0,38
10	Yzerman	9	3	1	4	0,44	0,33
11	Cournoyer	9	3	2	5	0,56	0,33
12	Messier	13	4	5	9	0,69	0,31
13	Lafleur	13	4	8	12	0,92	0,31
14	Ratelle	8	2	3	5	0,63	0,25
15	Clarke	17	4	5	9	0,53	0,24
16	Trottier	9	2	5	7	0,78	0,22
17	Dionne	12	2	3	5	0,42	0,17
18	Gartner	15	2	2	4	0,27	0,13
19	Sittler	9	1	4	5	0,56	0,11
20	Hawerchuk	14	1	7	8	0,57	0,07

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[Namba 17]

Let's apply the logic, that was described here: Soviet players stats against NA professionals by Canadiens1958.
I don't have similar table for Soviet league, so, we'll use just PPG numbers.
Top players in Soviet league had stats about 1,10 - 1,20 PPG. Makarov has 1,37 PPG, Balderis 1,26, Petrov 1,21, Kharlamov 1,16 etc. Players, who were talented, but not "the best" had about 0,7 - 0,8 PPG. Varnakov has 0,73 PPG, Prirodin 0,8 PPG, Khomutov 0,82 PPG, Drozdetsky 0,89 PPG, Skvortsov 0,77 PPG etc.
Lets see what do we have for our stats of NA players.
Lemieux, Perreault and Gretzky would have been the top-stars in Soviet league as well. Esposito, Hull and Bossy wouldn't have been the best, but would have been among the top-players.
Others were simple not good enough - they'd have a problem to make CSKA roster (or even Torpedo Gorkiy' one).
sarcasm

 

[Canadiens1958]

Let's apply the logic, that was described here: Soviet players stats against NA professionals by Canadiens1958.
I don't have similar table for Soviet league, so, we'll use just PPG numbers.
Top players in Soviet league had stats about 1,10 - 1,20 PPG. Makarov has 1,37 PPG, Balderis 1,26, Petrov 1,21, Kharlamov 1,16 etc. Players, who were talented, but not "the e the NHL starsabout 0,7 - 0,8 PPG. Varnakov has 0,73 PPG, Prirodin 0,8 PPG, Khomutov 0,82 PPG, Drozdetsky 0,89 PPG, Skvortsov 0,77 PPG etc.
Lets see what do we have for our stats of NA players.
Lemieux, Perreault and Gretzky would have been the top-stars in Soviet league as well. Esposito, Hull and Bossy wouldn't have been the best, but would have been among the top-players.
Others were simple not good enough - they'd have a problem to make CSKA roster (or even Torpedo Gorkiy' one).
sarcasm

Of course the NHL stars only played against the best - Soviet National team and the elite club teams. the bad Soviet teams did not participate in NA tours and exhibitions.

Evident in the GP column. 12 Soviets - all leading players faced the NHL teams between 30 and 40 times. Conversely no NHL star faced the Soviets more than 16 times. 9 NHL stars faced the Soviets fewer than 10 times.

Roughly 40% of the Soviet games when on tour were against non or barely playoff teams. The stats reflect this, especially the Soviet stats.

Still you have situations where players like Rick Middleton did much better against elite Soviet teams than against the Montreal Canadiens.

Your efforts are interesting, take time but have to be analyzed critically to realize what they actually represent.

As for the CSKA roster, how many played on the Soviet National team at any given time? Estimates range from 10 to 15. What was the largest representation from an NHL team on a Team Canada? Maybe 7-8.

 

[Namba 17]

Your efforts are interesting, take time but have to be analyzed critically to realize what they actually represent.

So, Canadian' stats have to be analyzed critically, to realize what they actually represent, but as soon as we began to say the same thing about Soviets stats we may hear something like

The main issue becomes that the data should somehow elevate Soviet performance against NA but it cannot be compared to NHL players playing against NHL players. Then why waste time producing it or posting it, if the most obvious comparison is to be ignored? This is the tease element that no one is interested in. You produce data vs NA opposition then expect such comparables. When they happen do not hide claiming that others do not understand... stick with it thru the various stages of debate instead of teasing, dancing and submitting fluff at the slightest uncomfortable suggestion

(Soviet players stats against NA professionals)
Oookay.

PS. BTW, I had sarcasm smile in my post about stats of NA players. I'm far from idea to simplify things by strict comparison of numbers from games of one kind to numbers from games of other kind.

 

[Doctor No]

I agree with the general thesis that you can't take one as gospel but dismiss the other.

It's interesting (and useful) to view the other side of the mirror, and it's a good exercise in considering how much face value we should take with the Soviet stats versus North Americans.

One thing that we don't do enough of here is challenge long-held beliefs; things that have become THE WAY IT IS solely because we've been reading about it for years.