Multi positional player research
- Thread starter Sprague Cleghorn
- Start date
Frank Foyston
1913-14 (Toronto Blueshirts)
10 games at C is all I could come up with. Most games he was listed as spare.
1914-15 (Toronto Blueshirts)
16 C, 1 RW
1915-16 (Seattle Metropolitans)
11 R, 4 LW, 2 C
1916-17 (Seattle Metropolitans)
21 LW, 1 C, 1 R
1918-19 (Seattle Metropolitans)
15 LW
1919-20 (Seattle Metropolitans)
18 C, 1 RW, 1 LW
1920-21 (Seattle Metropolitans)
15 C, 5 RW
1921-22 (Seattle Metropolitans)
12 C, 5 RW, 5 LW
1922-23 (Seattle Metropolitans)
25 C, 1 LW
After this, Foyston is mostly listed as a spare/utility player, so it's pretty difficult to tell which position he played.
Conclusion: Should be listed as C/LW
1913-14 (Toronto Blueshirts)
10 games at C is all I could come up with. Most games he was listed as spare.
1914-15 (Toronto Blueshirts)
16 C, 1 RW
1915-16 (Seattle Metropolitans)
11 R, 4 LW, 2 C
1916-17 (Seattle Metropolitans)
21 LW, 1 C, 1 R
1918-19 (Seattle Metropolitans)
15 LW
1919-20 (Seattle Metropolitans)
18 C, 1 RW, 1 LW
1920-21 (Seattle Metropolitans)
15 C, 5 RW
1921-22 (Seattle Metropolitans)
12 C, 5 RW, 5 LW
1922-23 (Seattle Metropolitans)
25 C, 1 LW
After this, Foyston is mostly listed as a spare/utility player, so it's pretty difficult to tell which position he played.
Conclusion: Should be listed as C/LW
Jack Walker
1913-14 (Toronto Blueshirts)
15 LW, 1 R
1914-15 (Toronto Blueshirts)
14 LW, 1 RW, 1 D
1915-16 (Seattle Metropolitans)
10 LW, 6 R, 1 RW
1916-17 (Seattle Metropolitans)
23 R, 1 LW
1918-19 (Seattle Metropolitans)
17 R, 1 LW
1919-20 (Seattle Metropolitans)
20 R
1920-21 (Seattle Metropolitans)
20 R
1921-22 (Seattle Metropolitans)
20 R
1922-23 (Seattle Metropolitans)
7 RW, 5 LW, 2 C, mostly a spare
After this, Walker is mostly listed as a spare/utility player, so it's pretty difficult to tell which position he played.
Conclusion: Should be listed as C/LW
1913-14 (Toronto Blueshirts)
15 LW, 1 R
1914-15 (Toronto Blueshirts)
14 LW, 1 RW, 1 D
1915-16 (Seattle Metropolitans)
10 LW, 6 R, 1 RW
1916-17 (Seattle Metropolitans)
23 R, 1 LW
1918-19 (Seattle Metropolitans)
17 R, 1 LW
1919-20 (Seattle Metropolitans)
20 R
1920-21 (Seattle Metropolitans)
20 R
1921-22 (Seattle Metropolitans)
20 R
1922-23 (Seattle Metropolitans)
7 RW, 5 LW, 2 C, mostly a spare
After this, Walker is mostly listed as a spare/utility player, so it's pretty difficult to tell which position he played.
Conclusion: Should be listed as C/LW
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
Flash Hollett and Pat Egan are two relative contemporaries whose awards records are far below their offensive stats. So I think it would be worth looking at how much either one played at forward.
ResilientBeast
Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Walker moved to rover for some unexplained reason where the rover became a primarily defensive position, at the same time Mackay moved to rover and Taylor moved to center
BenchBrawl
Registered User
- Jul 26, 2010
- 30,902
- 13,702
Georges Boucher 1919-1920 (Ottawa Journal):
24 games
1.sub
2.sub
3.sub
4.sub
5.sub/D
6.sub
7.sub/LW
8.sub
9.sub
10.sub
11.Point (Cleghorn out)
12.Cover Point (Cleghorn out)
13.sub
14.Unknown
15.Cover Point (Gerard out)
16.Cover Point (Gerard out)
17.Point (Gerard out most of the game)
18.D (Gerard out)
19.Point (Gerard sub)
20.Cover Point (Gerard sub)
21.sub/LW
22.did not play
23.Point (Cleghorn out)
24.sub
TOTAL: 13 sub, 9 D/Point/Cover, 1 Unknown, 1 did not play
Did this in good faith, shouldn't be any problem but who knows when you're in a bio-typing frenzy, could have mixed one or two, doubt it.
24 games
1.sub
2.sub
3.sub
4.sub
5.sub/D
6.sub
7.sub/LW
8.sub
9.sub
10.sub
11.Point (Cleghorn out)
12.Cover Point (Cleghorn out)
13.sub
14.Unknown
15.Cover Point (Gerard out)
16.Cover Point (Gerard out)
17.Point (Gerard out most of the game)
18.D (Gerard out)
19.Point (Gerard sub)
20.Cover Point (Gerard sub)
21.sub/LW
22.did not play
23.Point (Cleghorn out)
24.sub
TOTAL: 13 sub, 9 D/Point/Cover, 1 Unknown, 1 did not play
Did this in good faith, shouldn't be any problem but who knows when you're in a bio-typing frenzy, could have mixed one or two, doubt it.
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Flash Hollett
I've been using The Detroit Free Press, and The Chicago Herald. For most of 1934-35 and 1938-39, DFP were nice enough to list the positions of every player on the roster and not just the starters. After that, like with all the other newspapers, they only listed the positions of the starters and the rest are all listed as spares. The only exception is if the team in question played the Red Wings, then all players' positions are listed (they stopped doing this starting from 1941-42).
1934-35 (Maple Leafs)
41 D, 1 D?, 1 F
1938-39 (Bruins)
20 D, 6 D?, 17 F (16 RW, 1 C)
Revised: 28 D, 19 F
1939-40 (Bruins)
13 D, 14 F (11 RW, 3 C), 3 F?
Revised: 29 F, 15 D
1940-41 (Bruins)
23 D, 17 F
From 1939-40 to 1940-41, the Bruins used 4 D 99.9% of the time. From the starters provided, I'm 99.9% sure that Clapper, Portland, Crawford, Shore, Shewchuk, Smith only played D, and that Hollett and Hamill were the only F/D on the team.
1941-42 (Bruins)
33 D, 13 F
Hollett switched to C after the Kraut line left and Cowley was injured.
1942-43 (Bruins)
Spent the entire season at D
Conclusion:
Any VsX D score for Hollett should be taken with a grain of salt as he played a significant amount of time at F. At F, Hollett's primary positions were RW and C. Hollett also played both sides on D.
I've been using The Detroit Free Press, and The Chicago Herald. For most of 1934-35 and 1938-39, DFP were nice enough to list the positions of every player on the roster and not just the starters. After that, like with all the other newspapers, they only listed the positions of the starters and the rest are all listed as spares. The only exception is if the team in question played the Red Wings, then all players' positions are listed (they stopped doing this starting from 1941-42).
1934-35 (Maple Leafs)
41 D, 1 D?, 1 F
1938-39 (Bruins)
20 D, 6 D?, 17 F (16 RW, 1 C)
Revised: 28 D, 19 F
1939-40 (Bruins)
13 D, 14 F (11 RW, 3 C), 3 F?
Revised: 29 F, 15 D
1940-41 (Bruins)
23 D, 17 F
From 1939-40 to 1940-41, the Bruins used 4 D 99.9% of the time. From the starters provided, I'm 99.9% sure that Clapper, Portland, Crawford, Shore, Shewchuk, Smith only played D, and that Hollett and Hamill were the only F/D on the team.
1941-42 (Bruins)
33 D, 13 F
Hollett switched to C after the Kraut line left and Cowley was injured.
1942-43 (Bruins)
Spent the entire season at D
Conclusion:
Any VsX D score for Hollett should be taken with a grain of salt as he played a significant amount of time at F. At F, Hollett's primary positions were RW and C. Hollett also played both sides on D.
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Bump. Just in case i might do more research and if anyones interested in the players already researched
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Excellent work! We all suspected this but I don't think anyone actually knew.
Ill do barry and phil watson next week. Though im pretty sure barry was a lw in boston up until his last season then switched to C full time after.
Tommy Anderson
The NY Times only lists the position of the starters, so if Anderson wasn't a starter, you could only guess. However, the Detroit Free Press was nice enough to list the position of ALL players, so if Anderson was playing the Red Wings, I was in luck.
I only counted the games where there was 100% certainty which position Anderson played.
1934-35
11 C, 1 RW
Played in Detroit thankfully. I didn't count every game. I counted some at the beginning, some at the midway point and some at the end (note I'm talking in relation to his 27 games played). I can confidently say that he did not play a meaningful amount of D.
1936-37
Only counted GP against Detroit since DFP lists all positions. He played C in every game against the Red Wings. I think this is a pretty good sample since the games were spread out throughout they year. Might have played D here and there, but I doubt it due to what I've been finding for the other years.
1937-38
3 LW, 3 C
Anderson wasn't a starter the majority of the time. However, it is highly unlikely Anderson played D this season. On the roster, I see Day, Ching Johnson, Murray, Jerwa and Gallagher. They all played over 40 games except for Johnson and his 31 GP. Makes no sense back then to have 6D.
1938-39
Finished 6th in scoring and not a single vote at D? By my knowledge, a D finishing 6th at that time would be the highest a D has ever finished in the scoring race. Most likely a LW or C this season.
1939-40
13 LW, 11 C
At the start it was Anderson - Armstrong - Wiseman, then mid season it was Sorrell - Anderson - Wiseman, then at the end Stewart was C with a rotating cast of RWs. Very confident that Anderson did not see major or any time at D this season. The Amerks rolled with 4 D the majority of the time: Conacher, Field, and Murray were the three mainstays. The 4th spot was usually occupied by Hooley Smith, with Shore, Tomson and Egan occasionally chipping in.
1940-41
18 LW, 6 C, 2 RW
At the beginning of the season, Anderson was mainly the LW with Armstrong and Carr, then towards the end of the season, Boll became the C. Very confident again that Anderson did not see major or any time at D this season. The Amerks rolled with 4 D again: Conacher, Egan, Slobodian, and Field.
I'm pretty confident that Anderson did not play D regularly or at all until 1941-42, so we got a LW Malone situation here.
Should be listed as LW/C/D
He is a legit LW/C as he spent lots of time at both positions. However, D listing is just as controversial as Malone at LW.
The NY Times only lists the position of the starters, so if Anderson wasn't a starter, you could only guess. However, the Detroit Free Press was nice enough to list the position of ALL players, so if Anderson was playing the Red Wings, I was in luck.
I only counted the games where there was 100% certainty which position Anderson played.
1934-35
11 C, 1 RW
Played in Detroit thankfully. I didn't count every game. I counted some at the beginning, some at the midway point and some at the end (note I'm talking in relation to his 27 games played). I can confidently say that he did not play a meaningful amount of D.
1936-37
Only counted GP against Detroit since DFP lists all positions. He played C in every game against the Red Wings. I think this is a pretty good sample since the games were spread out throughout they year. Might have played D here and there, but I doubt it due to what I've been finding for the other years.
1937-38
3 LW, 3 C
Anderson wasn't a starter the majority of the time. However, it is highly unlikely Anderson played D this season. On the roster, I see Day, Ching Johnson, Murray, Jerwa and Gallagher. They all played over 40 games except for Johnson and his 31 GP. Makes no sense back then to have 6D.
1938-39
Finished 6th in scoring and not a single vote at D? By my knowledge, a D finishing 6th at that time would be the highest a D has ever finished in the scoring race. Most likely a LW or C this season.
1939-40
13 LW, 11 C
At the start it was Anderson - Armstrong - Wiseman, then mid season it was Sorrell - Anderson - Wiseman, then at the end Stewart was C with a rotating cast of RWs. Very confident that Anderson did not see major or any time at D this season. The Amerks rolled with 4 D the majority of the time: Conacher, Field, and Murray were the three mainstays. The 4th spot was usually occupied by Hooley Smith, with Shore, Tomson and Egan occasionally chipping in.
1940-41
18 LW, 6 C, 2 RW
At the beginning of the season, Anderson was mainly the LW with Armstrong and Carr, then towards the end of the season, Boll became the C. Very confident again that Anderson did not see major or any time at D this season. The Amerks rolled with 4 D again: Conacher, Egan, Slobodian, and Field.
I'm pretty confident that Anderson did not play D regularly or at all until 1941-42, so we got a LW Malone situation here.
Should be listed as LW/C/D
He is a legit LW/C as he spent lots of time at both positions. However, D listing is just as controversial as Malone at LW.
Vaclav Prospal
I'm using Hockey-Reference Scoring Logs for this one. Much faster than going through individual game reports. I'm going with the assumption that the players that player X scored the most ES points with are his most common linemates, and from that I can deduce which position player X played. I'll be listing the players that player X scored the most ES points with.
1999-2000
Alfredsson, RW: 21
McEachern, LW: 12
Zamuner, LW: 9
Juneau, C: 6
Most likely a C.
2001-02
Clymer, RW: 12
Richards, C: 8
St. Louis, RW: 5
Keefe, RW: 4
Started out as a C with an assortment of wingers then around game 40 switched to LW with Richards and Clymer.
2002-03
Lecavalier, C: 28
St. Louis, RW: 13
Fedotenko, RW: 9
Clymer, RW: 8
Richards, C: 5
Fedotenko in red, because he's also listed as LW and I am unsure who between him and Prospal were RW/LW. Anyone with more info? (Edit: Fedotenko was the RW)
2003-04
Sykora, RW: 10
Rucchin, C: 10
Lupul, LW: 10
Fedorov, C: 6
Started out at LW with Fedorov and Sykora mostly. Around game 45, the trio became him, Rucchin and Lupul. Problem is I don't have anyone listed as a RW between the three. My guess is Prospal was the RW, Lupul LW and Rucchin C? More info anyone?
2005-06
Lecavalier, C: 26
Fedotenko, RW: 18
St. Louis, RW: 11
Another problem with Fedotenko's position. Who was RW, him or Prospal? I'm going with Fedotenko at RW for now, since I see him play with Richards, C and Modin, LW sometimes too. (Edit: Fedotenko was the RW)
2007-08
Lecavalier, C: 25
St. Louis, RW: 20
Briere, RW: 10
Hartnell, LW: 5
Umberger, C: 5
LW in Tampa, then C in Philly
2009-10
Gaborik, RW: 22
Dubinsky, C: 4
Jokinen, C: 5
LW mainly, found Prospal - Dubinsky - Gaborik being a thing. Also, some C based on faceoff numbers
2011-12
Nash, RW: 15
Carter, C: 8
Letestu, C: 7
Tough one here. I know in their careers Nash played both wings and Carter C/RW. Nash, Carter, Prospal was the most common trio. Who played what? (Edit: Most likely LW How useful will Vinny Prospal be in Columbus? - ProHockeyTalk | NBC Sports)
Prospal did play all three forward positions in his career. However, RW was the position he spent the least amount of time at. From what I see, not even a full "significant" season. Should be listed as LW/C
I'm using Hockey-Reference Scoring Logs for this one. Much faster than going through individual game reports. I'm going with the assumption that the players that player X scored the most ES points with are his most common linemates, and from that I can deduce which position player X played. I'll be listing the players that player X scored the most ES points with.
1999-2000
Alfredsson, RW: 21
McEachern, LW: 12
Zamuner, LW: 9
Juneau, C: 6
Most likely a C.
2001-02
Clymer, RW: 12
Richards, C: 8
St. Louis, RW: 5
Keefe, RW: 4
Started out as a C with an assortment of wingers then around game 40 switched to LW with Richards and Clymer.
2002-03
Lecavalier, C: 28
St. Louis, RW: 13
Fedotenko, RW: 9
Clymer, RW: 8
Richards, C: 5
Fedotenko in red, because he's also listed as LW and I am unsure who between him and Prospal were RW/LW. Anyone with more info? (Edit: Fedotenko was the RW)
2003-04
Sykora, RW: 10
Rucchin, C: 10
Lupul, LW: 10
Fedorov, C: 6
Started out at LW with Fedorov and Sykora mostly. Around game 45, the trio became him, Rucchin and Lupul. Problem is I don't have anyone listed as a RW between the three. My guess is Prospal was the RW, Lupul LW and Rucchin C? More info anyone?
2005-06
Lecavalier, C: 26
Fedotenko, RW: 18
St. Louis, RW: 11
Another problem with Fedotenko's position. Who was RW, him or Prospal? I'm going with Fedotenko at RW for now, since I see him play with Richards, C and Modin, LW sometimes too. (Edit: Fedotenko was the RW)
2007-08
Lecavalier, C: 25
St. Louis, RW: 20
Briere, RW: 10
Hartnell, LW: 5
Umberger, C: 5
LW in Tampa, then C in Philly
2009-10
Gaborik, RW: 22
Dubinsky, C: 4
Jokinen, C: 5
LW mainly, found Prospal - Dubinsky - Gaborik being a thing. Also, some C based on faceoff numbers
2011-12
Nash, RW: 15
Carter, C: 8
Letestu, C: 7
Tough one here. I know in their careers Nash played both wings and Carter C/RW. Nash, Carter, Prospal was the most common trio. Who played what? (Edit: Most likely LW How useful will Vinny Prospal be in Columbus? - ProHockeyTalk | NBC Sports)
Prospal did play all three forward positions in his career. However, RW was the position he spent the least amount of time at. From what I see, not even a full "significant" season. Should be listed as LW/C
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seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Faceoff stats exist for all those seasons. You ought to take a look at where he ranked in faceoffs taken on his team. That would give you a great deal of evidence towards whether to call him a C or a LW for each season.
