Proposal: MTL-SJ

[pth2]

I’d say a little further down, around 18th. There will be 1-2 reaches in top 15 so 1-2 « standard » top 15 will be there at 16 and 17.

If you are asking a team to pass on last « standard » top 15, you need to offer something nice, not something you dont need anymore.

And whats the point of reaching for 18th when its land of confusion between 18 and 32 pretty much.

Well, I'd say it's hard to tell, because my top-15, your top-15 and someone else's won't be a perfect overlap, so my scenario is as likely as any other.

Is it just that Hughes hasn't done a wrong move yet and that's why some Habs proposals would make the other teams GM's look stupid?

I think it's more that there's a perception of infallibility, a honeymoon period where everything looks great, because the first moves are the easiest, even more in a forced rebuild where immediate wins aren't real important.

Selling off Toffoli, Chiarot and co was easy enough. It's when you have to pick who to keep, get a return for your surplus, and fill needs in the process, that the job becomes harder.

 

[Xirik]

Careful with the « perfect » record for Hughes… lots of it is futures.

Whats the return for Toffoli? Chiarot? Edmundson?
Lehkonen?

Even the last Monahan move seems nice for futures but maybe total bust.

I don't think Hughe's will be perfect.

I think most GM's are well liked by fans when they first are hired and that will continue forward until they do something that can't be categorized at anything other then a mistake or bad move.

I mean I was smelling Fitzgeralds farts before anyone else did until he drafted Chase Stillman, After that I realized that no GM is perfect and you just got to hope that he has more Wins then failures.

I still think Fitz is a great GM though.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I don't see them going that far if they keep the pick at 5. At 5, my expectation would be one of Lindstrom, Demidov, Catton, or Iginla. Iginla has been climbing the rankings all year. Montreal aren't drafting defence, and those are the guys that routinely come up in the area of picks 4-8 if you're taking a forward.

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Using the 24th pick to trade up to mid first round does make sense, if there's a player hanging around that HuGo really interested in. If they do, I'd certainly be in favor of drafting Eiserman. Warts or not, he's still the best pure goalscorer in the draft. I also think MSL could perform the same sort of work done with Caufield. Montreal needs natural finishers. He definitely fits the bill.

If I'm SJ, I'd keep the pick honestly. Build up the prospect pool. Adding a guy like Eiserman - if he's still there of course - would be a nice feather in the cap and go nicely with Celebrini.

Yeah, we’re going to keep it. Kinda the whole premise of every Sharks fan in this thread.

 

[GRANdSharks]

Welp, I guess we all need to be NHL executives to have an opinion on the value of hockey players may as well lock up this thread since there is no point on discussing things none of us no nothing about.

 

[BLNY]

Yeah, we’re going to keep it. Kinda the whole premise of every Sharks fan in this thread.

Agreed.

 

[jfhabs]

Philly fan from Mtl outside of top 10 at 12 wants nothing of Harris-Barron-Struble to trade down.

Mtl must have no bottom 6 at all since their goalies are leaders in expected goals saved, they have 11 NHL dmen present-prospects most of them of the untradable variety, rich top 5 of Caufield, Suzuki, Dach, Slafkovsky, Dach, Newhook.

But they pick 5th again. Not 10th or 15th, 5th.

Maybe the lineup with Montambeault-Primeau, Guhle-Matheson-Savard-Harris-Struble-Arber as base is a problem.

Instead of trading up, I say get a goalie and get 3 new dmen.

Cant all be rookies unless looking for 1 more 5th oa pick.

- Jake Allen has been absolute shit. Can't believe we traded him for something.
- Our team is still very green at all position.
- We are still rebuilding, so we keep bad vets on bad contacts in the bottom 6 instead of paying assets to move them and be better now.
- Dach had a season ending injury on game 2 of the season. Overall we were still not lucky with injuries this year, finishing top 5 again in games missed.

Motembeault finished the season at -.22 and Primeau at +5, not that's leading the league at all. Allen, I didn't check but I must be near the bottom for goaltenders. He hasn't been good for the past 2 seasons.
Slafkovsky turned a corner this year around mid-season. Curious to see what this line can do over a full season together.
We're still missing a good top 6 player to play with Newhook and Dach. Roy might work but he's still very young to have those minutes/match ups.
The next wave of young defenders is much more talents (except for Guhle) than the previous one Guhle, Harris, Struble, Xhekaj VS Hutson, Reinbacher, Engstrom and Mailloux)

 

[Garbageyuk]

Welp, I guess we all need to be NHL executives to have an opinion on the value of hockey players may as well lock up this thread since there is no point on discussing things none of us no nothing about.

Class: Strawman Arguments 101
Instructor: @GRANdSharks
Location: this thread

 

[GRANdSharks]

Class: Strawman Arguments 101
Instructor: @GRANdSharks
Location: this thread

Free coffee and donuts for anyone attending!

 

[Garbageyuk]

Free coffee and donuts for anyone attending!

Thanks for gracing us with your knowledge and expertise, Professor!

 

[themelkman]

This is bad and we don’t need to debate it. Typically this move up trade would cost you a very high second and then a later second, so you need to find things worth that or trade those kind of picks to do so, a bunch of spare parts doesn’t do it.

 

[Gecklund]

Welp, I guess we all need to be NHL executives to have an opinion on the value of hockey players may as well lock up this thread since there is no point on discussing things none of us no nothing about.

Unless you’re the OP then you can have whatever opinion you want

 

[Garbageyuk]

This is bad and we don’t need to debate it. Typically this move up trade would cost you a very high second and then a later second, so you need to find things worth that or trade those kind of picks to do so, a bunch of spare parts doesn’t do it.

I think Barron and Harris could both return a 2nd each, easily. What are you on?

 

[Gecklund]

I think Barron and Harris could both return a 2nd each, easily. What are you on?

Okay. Show your work. Show similar dmen that returned a 2nd. Cause I sure as hell can’t find any.

Top of my head guys in that situation normally return a 5th (Addison, Okhotiuk) even if those 2 are considered better, don’t think you’re getting 2nds. Think you’re look at 3rds max or more likely change of scenery type trades.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Okay. Show your work. Show similar dmen that returned a 2nd. Cause I sure as hell can’t find any.

I’ll do you one better; Romanov returned 13th overall. Same age, same production (both Harris and Barron are actually better than Romanov was then, production wise), but Romanov had and has worse metrics.

 

[Baksfamous112]

i don’t know how San Jose feels about that trade but as a Habs fan I feel like Mesar has more than than moving up 10 spot in a weak draft.

 

[GRANdSharks]

I’ll do you one better; Romanov returned 13th overall. Same age, same production (both Harris and Barron are actually better than Romanov was then, production wise), but Romanov had and has worse metrics.

I don't think many people would say the Islanders ended up looking good in this trade. But looking without hindsight Romanov at the time of the trade was universally regarded as one of the top young prospects in the league based on most scouting outlets at the time within a year before the trade, and can probably be compared in a similar light to the Reinhart trade and the Lundquist trade.

None of the prospects you have listed in the OP have been considered top 50 NHL prospects in the last year or are largely considered to have similar potential I don't really see the comparable between your proposal and the Romanov trade other then they are both young Montreal defenders/prospects

 

[Grinner]

i don’t know how San Jose feels about that trade but as a Habs fan I feel like Mesar has more than than moving up 10 spot in a weak draft.

Not for SJ. You might want to try Det and Minn fans. I suspect you'll get the same response

It's not nearly so weak in the top half of the 1st
Hence so many trade suggestions from Habs fans for 14th

 

[JRichard]

Well, I'd say it's hard to tell, because my top-15, your top-15 and someone else's won't be a perfect overlap, so my scenario is as likely as any other.


I think it's more that there's a perception of infallibility, a honeymoon period where everything looks great, because the first moves are the easiest, even more in a forced rebuild where immediate wins aren't real important.

Selling off Toffoli, Chiarot and co was easy enough. It's when you have to pick who to keep, get a return for your surplus, and fill needs in the process, that the job becomes harder.

McKenzie explained top 15 was pretty set if i remember last week’s ranking. Same 15 names in most team’s lists in different order yes, but same names. I know 1-2 teams will go off he board.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I don't think many people would say the Islanders ended up looking good in this trade. But looking without hindsight Romanov at the time of the trade was universally regarded as one of the top young prospects in the league based on most scouting outlets at the time within a year before the trade, and can probably be compared in a similar light to the Reinhart trade and the Lundquist trade.

None of the prospects you have listed in the OP have been considered top 50 NHL prospects in the last year or are largely considered to have similar potential I don't really see the comparable between your proposal and the Romanov trade other then they are both young Montreal defenders/prospects

That’s both moving the goalposts and revisionist history. The first indicator that this is complete made up BS on your part is that Romanov wasn’t even a prospect at the time; he’d just finished his sophomore season. It appears you don’t even really know what you’re talking about, so the rest of the crap you typed isn’t worth addressing in detail (hint: it’s false - Romanov was never regarded anywhere near the same as someone like Reinhart. You are straight up fabricating things now).

 

[DJN21]

I think Barron and Harris could both return a 2nd each, easily. What are you on?

Barron can't get a fan from another team to even reply on this message board besides me mocking how often he's offered....

 

[themelkman]

Barron can't get a fan from another team to even reply on this message board besides me mocking how often he's offered....

it’s crazy because I actually don’t hate Barron, and if the ask was a 4th I would probably take a flier on him, but he’s never going to get a early second.

 

[JRichard]

I don't think many people would say the Islanders ended up looking good in this trade. But looking without hindsight Romanov at the time of the trade was universally regarded as one of the top young prospects in the league based on most scouting outlets at the time within a year before the trade, and can probably be compared in a similar light to the Reinhart trade and the Lundquist trade.

None of the prospects you have listed in the OP have been considered top 50 NHL prospects in the last year or are largely considered to have similar potential I don't really see the comparable between your proposal and the Romanov trade other then they are both young Montreal defenders/prospects

Surprised you believe Isles didnt do good until now.

They have a hard-hitting dman signed on great contract who played 2 full seasons. They added a 3rd.

Mtl got 60 games from Dach who is 1 yr younger. And gave away 2 picks (2nd a 3rd).

Chi has 2 futures but nothing yet.

 

[DJN21]

That’s both moving the goalposts and revisionist history. The first indicator that this is complete made up BS on your part is that Romanov wasn’t even a prospect at the time; he’d just finished his sophomore season. It appears you don’t even really know what you’re talking about, so the rest of the crap you typed isn’t worth addressing in detail (hint: it’s false - Romanov was never regarded anywhere near the same as someone like Reinhart. You are straight up fabricating things now).

You've used "straw man", "Moving goal posts" and "revisionist history" all in one page. You win the ultimate HFboards clique prize of........regurgitating dumb phrases to try and sound smart while supporting your point.

 

[GRANdSharks]

That’s both moving the goalposts and revisionist history. The first indicator that this is complete made up BS on your part is that Romanov wasn’t even a prospect at the time; he’d just finished his sophomore season. It appears you don’t even really know what you’re talking about, so the rest of the crap you typed isn’t worth addressing in detail (hint: it’s false - Romanov was never regarded anywhere near the same as someone like Reinhart. You are straight up fabricating things now).

To clarify I'm using rankings based on u23 which Romanov was at the time of the trade

 

[Gecklund]

I’ll do you one better; Romanov returned 13th overall. Same age, same production (both Harris and Barron are actually better than Romanov was then, production wise), but Romanov had and has worse metrics.

Romanov is and was better than either of those guys. This draft is better than 2022. So try again.