Proposal: MTL-SJ

[67 others]

lolz Barron is in another trade proposal hahaha. Dude is gonna smash records at this rate.

As much as I loved him as a prospect, his health and development make this a hard no

 

[26Mats]

If anything the sharks will be looking to trade up for one of the D, not back.

It will be up to the GM's.

Didn't Grier once trade the 11th overall pick for 27th overall plus two 2nds?

 

[Juxtaposer]

Understandable response, but in most drafts the drop in talent from 5 to 14 is more than 14 to 24. How much varies from year to year.

That said, I don't see the Sharks going for this.

In most drafts, sure. But I’ve read that the Canadiens are considering Beckett Sennecke at 5th, who is like 14th overall on Bob’s list. The tier drop between the forwards available at 5 is not all that different than the forwards available at 14. According to the scouts polls by McKenzie, the guys 2-15 don’t really have a consensus order, and the tier drops dramatically after 15:

It will be up to the GM's.

Didn't Grier once trade the 11th overall pick for 27th overall plus two 2nds?

Yes, because our prospect pool was totally barren and we needed some depth. That’s no longer the case.

 

[pth2]

Strawman argument. I didn’t say SJ should trade the 14th strictly because they have the first overall.

You're the one who said they could trade #14 because they have #1.

And I know this is your schtick, I’ve seen you in several other threads siding with opposing teams fans. Not sure what you really get out of it, but sure.

I try to be objective and take off my rose-colored glasses. I don't always succeed, but I try.
You should try it sometime.

It isn’t some grave offense to post a trade proposal, regardless of how the other team feels about it. Despite the incessant whining in this thread from certain individuals, this was a legitimate proposal intended for debate and discussion- the very purpose of this forum.

Well, you can post whatever proposals you want, but if they're entirely unreasonable, expect others, including myself, to point it out.

The premise isn’t at all crazy. MTL acquired the 13th overall two years ago by trading a depth D.

Romanov was a highly sought after prospect, described as a cross between Emelin and Markov and who was given PP time early on, who'd graduated into a solid D. The best comparable is Guhle, who you didn't include in your trade proposal.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Thoughts:

- I get you’d want to capture some value out of guys that are trending expendable for Montreal. So how do they profile for the Sharks needs?
- Being young and an NHL defender isn’t enough for the Sharks to seriously deprecate the 14th overall. The concrete needs are specifically top 4 RD. Barron, Kovacevic, and Harris all have some track record at the NHL level, but are they trending towards top 4 difference makers? The Sharks probably have decent potential solutions for their third pairing. Personally, for the short term I’m totally fine using UFA or the odd cap savings trade to source decent vet placeholders for top 4 roles, with far less importance placed on youth.
- At a glance, Mesars profiles pretty similarly to what the Sharks already have in Bordeleau, Guschin, and to a lesser degree Robbins. These are players that don’t really mesh well with Grier’s stated goal of being hard to play against, or the moves he’s made to target bigger players with a heavier game.
- Moving from 14th to ~27th hurts from the Sharks perspective, essentially moving out of the 5-15th tier where there’s not a clear consensus on prospect rankings to the next tier of prospects that are considerably less interesting. From 14 the Sharks can either sit back and take the BPA/faller from that tier or put some package together to move up a few slots and get a player they really like.
- From Montreals perspective this doesn’t seem to hurt at all as all of the players offered seem easily replaced or unlikely to be in future plans.

Beyond just getting young NHL roster players (and likely bottom of the roster players at that) what is actually motivating the Sharks to make this move?

Appreciate the well articulated post and the effort put into it, even if I feel like Barron and especially Harris are being sold short here (your post, not the proposal). You seem to be quite firm on your stance, so I’ll refrain from trying to convince you, since you’re polite and expressed your disagreement in a cordial manner. Posts like this are a breath of fresh air compared to the whiny crap. Well done.

 

[pth2]

It will be up to the GM's.

Didn't Grier once trade the 11th overall pick for 27th overall plus two 2nds?

The 2nd rounders were 34 and 45, so that was a near-first and an average 2nd.

A comparable would be #14 for #27, Habs 2nd (if they still had it) and PIT's 2nd next season (since the Avs 2nd is too far). That's far more than #27 and some lesser lights, even if they have potential.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Romanov was a highly sought after prospect, described as a cross between Emelin and Markov and who was given PP time early on, who'd graduated into a solid D. The best comparable is Guhle, who you didn't include in your trade proposal.

Romanov wasn’t any more “sought after” than either Harris or Barron. Cut the BS. He played a couple more minutes per game because there wasn’t as much of a log jam at D then and the team had a bunch of washed plugs on it. We now have Matheson, Guhle, and Savard, all of whom play heavier minutes.

Aside from that, both Barron and Harris are the same age Romanov was then and are better in nearly every way. Romanov’s metrics were terrible and still are. But he throws a big hit once in a while, so he gets overrated. I expect both Harris and Barron to become similar calibre players, if not Better. There really isn’t that much separating them currently anyway.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Appreciate the well articulated post and the effort put into it, even if I feel like Barron and especially Harris are being sold short here (your post, not the proposal). You seem to be quite firm on your stance, so I’ll refrain from trying to convince you, since you’re polite and expressed your disagreement in a cordial manner. Posts like this are a breath of fresh air compared to the whiny crap. Well done.

In honesty, I don’t know much about Montreal’s players and am largely basing my response on some quick googling and any scouting briefs and summaries I can readily find. I think from the Sharks perspective Barron and Kovacevic might be interesting in a prospect swap sort of deal (I’m excluding Harris as the Sharks LD pipeline is, while I’d hardly classify a position of strength, more solidly stocked; and again I think Grier is prioritizing physicality and size).

What odds do you give Barron or Kovacevic to develop into bonafide top 4 quality?

 

[jfhabs]

Counter-counter counter-offer: Reinbacher for 14th + 42nd overall. Or 14th overall + Bordeleau + Gushchin for 5th overall.

OP is disgusting. I see a lot of this sentiment and I’d like to formally shut it down. Sharks are not interested in trading down from 14 to 27. Find some other sucker. I don’t care if Harris or Barron or whoever would play in the Sharks top-4 now. I want legit top-4 defensemen, not more #7’s forced into top-4 roles.

OP isn't good, but do you're proposal isn't good for us either.

I think Harris or Barron could be good options for the Sharks. Barron has higher potential and is a year younger than Harris, I think they have slightly different value. Barron as a real shot at being a top 4 defenseman one day, he's shown flashes of that, but still has consistency issues.

Maybe a guy like Cam Lund could be a similar value prospect in exchange.

 

[pth2]

Romanov wasn’t any more “sought after” than either Harris or Barron. Cut the BS. He played a couple more minutes per game because there wasn’t as much of a log jam at D then and the team had a bunch of washed plugs on it. We now have Matheson, Guhle, and Savard, all of whom play heavier minutes.

That's quite a selective memory you have there. Back then just about every thread started with "Suzuki, Caufield and Romanov are untouchable, of course."

Aside from that, both Barron and Harris are the same age Romanov was then and are better in nearly every way. Romanov’s metrics were terrible and still are. But he throws a big hit once in a while, so he gets overrated. I expect both Harris and Barron to become similar calibre players, if not Better. There really isn’t that much separating them currently anyway.

Romanov had clearly taken a big step forward before he got moved.
That being said, the only reason that deal worked was because NYI specifically wanted Romanov, there's no reason to think Grier has any great interest in any of the offered players. Basically, you're trying to sell at the kind of price you can only get when the buyer is dead set on getting an asset.

 

[Juxtaposer]

OP isn't good, but do you're proposal isn't good for us either.

I think Harris or Barron could be good options for the Sharks. Barron has higher potential and is a year younger than Harris, I think they have slightly different value. Barron as a real shot at being a top 4 defenseman one day, he's shown flashes of that, but still has consistency issues.

Maybe a guy like Cam Lund could be a similar value prospect in exchange.

Oh I know, it was tongue-in-cheek.

Lund for Barron is probably a fair swap, if you prefer him to Bordeleau. Lund has more upside and more of a prototypical NHL archetype, but he’s also several years away from the NHL, if he makes it.

 

[Garbageyuk]

In honesty, I don’t know much about Montreal’s players and am largely basing my response on some quick googling and any scouting briefs and summaries I can readily find. I think from the Sharks perspective Barron and Kovacevic might be interesting in a prospect swap sort of deal (I’m excluding Harris as the Sharks LD pipeline is, while I’d hardly classify a position of strength, more solidly stocked; and again I think Grier is prioritizing physicality and size).

What odds do you give Barron or Kovacevic to develop into bonafide top 4 quality?

I think Barron has top-4 potential, but needs a change of scenery. He needs to get his reps in at the NHL level and it isn’t going to happen in MTL due to how crowded they are on D. He’s a RHD, but we have Savard who isn’t going anywhere, Reinbacher and Mailloux who I think both have greater potential and should be prioritized over him for development. That leaves him in competition with Kovacevic. Unless he really takes a big leap forward very soon, I think he’s gone.

Kovacevic also needs to be moved to make way for the young guys. To me he’s older and is what he is at this point. He has some, but not much value - he’s a big, capable RHD who can play at the NHL level. There just isn’t room for him because again, the young up and comers need room to get their reps in and develop.

 

[jfhabs]

In honesty, I don’t know much about Montreal’s players and am largely basing my response on some quick googling and any scouting briefs and summaries I can readily find. I think from the Sharks perspective Barron and Kovacevic might be interesting in a prospect swap sort of deal (I’m excluding Harris as the Sharks LD pipeline is, while I’d hardly classify a position of strength, more solidly stocked; and again I think Grier is prioritizing physicality and size).

What odds do you give Barron or Kovacevic to develop into bonafide top 4 quality?

Kovacevic is 4 years older, he doesn't have the same talent/potential/value.
For Barron, I'd say 50/50, but at worst you'll get an inconsistent 3rd pair D that has flashes of a top 4.

 

[Gecklund]

OP isn't good, but do you're proposal isn't good for us either.

I think Harris or Barron could be good options for the Sharks. Barron has higher potential and is a year younger than Harris, I think they have slightly different value. Barron as a real shot at being a top 4 defenseman one day, he's shown flashes of that, but still has consistency issues.

Maybe a guy like Cam Lund could be a similar value prospect in exchange.

As someone that does not like Lund, deal.

 

[jfhabs]

Oh I know, it was tongue-in-cheek.

Lund for Barron is probably a fair swap, if you prefer him to Bordeleau. Lund has more upside and more of a prototypical NHL archetype, but he’s also several years away from the NHL, if he makes it.

Yeah I don't think Lund's potential is sky high, but I think he has a pretty safe trajectory as an NHL caliber player. We have a similar player in Heineman right now, althought a bit older. IMO he should've made the team at the start of the season last year. He beat a few vets by a mile at camp, but these guys had huge contracts (Anderson, Gallagher, Armia). Armia was ultimately sent down and came back completly changed. We even saw him smile for the first time in 4 years... !!

 

[TBF1972]

Well, considering that you seem to be really impressed with Mukhamadullin, who projects worse than half the guys on that list, I’d say yeah you should be. Isn’t Muk your best D prospect by far? Mailloux for example, is better. And Mailloux doesn’t project to ever be anywhere close to being our best D.

i am not a sharks fan. but as a devils fan i am kind of familiar, who played in the khl as a teenager. was captain of the russian junior national team and was at the tryouts of the men's team.

 

[jfhabs]

As someone that does not like Lund, deal.

Why don't you like him?
He's a meat and potato player, but you need these guys I think.

 

[Garbageyuk]

That's quite a selective memory you have there. Back then just about every thread started with "Suzuki, Caufield and Romanov are untouchable, of course."

Well if it isn’t the pot calling the kettle black. Telling someone they have a selective memory then typing what you did after is crazy. No one ever considered Romanov untouchable. Go try posting that on the Habs board and see how it goes.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Oh I know, it was tongue-in-cheek.

Lund for Barron is probably a fair swap, if you prefer him to Bordeleau. Lund has more upside and more of a prototypical NHL archetype, but he’s also several years away from the NHL, if he makes it.

I think Barron has top-4 potential, but needs a change of scenery. He needs to get his reps in at the NHL level and it isn’t going to happen in MTL due to how crowded they are on D. He’s a RHD, but we have Savard who isn’t going anywhere, Reinbacher and Mailloux who I think both have greater potential and should be prioritized over him for development. That leaves him in competition with Kovacevic. Unless he really takes a big leap forward very soon, I think he’s gone.

Kovacevic also needs to be moved to make way for the young guys. To me he’s older and is what he is at this point. He has some, but not much value - he’s a big, capable RHD who can play at the NHL level. There just isn’t room for him because again, the young up and comers need room to get their reps in and develop.

Kovacevic is 4 years older, he doesn't have the same talent/potential/value.
For Barron, I'd say 50/50, but at worst you'll get an inconsistent 3rd pair D that has flashes of a top 4.

Sounds like Barron for Lund may be an interesting swap for both sides? I’ll call Grier to let him know

 

[TBF1972]

You aren’t going to find any young NHL calibre D with upside on waivers or free agency. Come on man, you know that’s not true.

Via trade, sure, but both Barron and Harris would cost more than a mid pick. They will likely be traded soon, so we’ll find out what they’re worth shortly.

and still barron and/or harris will probably hit waiver next season.

it's your choice if the bolded statement is wrong or if harris and barron aren't nhl calibre d with upside.

 

[Garbageyuk]

and still barron and/or harris will probably hit waiver next season.

it's your choice if the bolded statement is wrong or if harris and barron aren't nhl calibre d with upside.

You repeating that incessantly isn’t going to make it true. They will be traded before it comes to that because, get this, they are valuable assets.

 

[Xirik]

Strawman argument. I didn’t say SJ should trade the 14th strictly because they have the first overall.

And I know this is your schtick, I’ve seen you in several other threads siding with opposing teams fans. Not sure what you really get out of it, but sure.

It isn’t some grave offense to post a trade proposal, regardless of how the other team feels about it. Despite the incessant whining in this thread from certain individuals, this was a legitimate proposal intended for debate and discussion- the very purpose of this forum.

The premise isn’t at all crazy. MTL acquired the 13th overall two years ago by trading a depth D.

A Single D for 13th

You are offering two defenseman for 14th.

Are the players you are wanting to trade as good as Romanov?

 

[pth2]

and still barron and/or harris will probably hit waiver next season.

it's your choice if the bolded statement is wrong or if harris and barron aren't nhl calibre d with upside.

The idea that these guys would hit the waiver wire is just as bad as the OP. Both these guys have upside... how many RD with Barron's size&talent have gone on waivers on their first year of eligibility? Teams will bend over backwards to get talented RD and give them every possible chance to make it.

 

[Garbageyuk]

A Single D for 13th

You are offering two defenseman for 14th.

Are the players you are wanting to trade as good as Romanov?

They are unequivocally as good as he was at the time, yes. Debatable whether they are at present. Romanov plays a couple more minutes per game, but doesn’t produce any more than either, despite being older and apparently more experienced, and his metrics are terrible.

Also, Grier traded the 11th overall for two 2nds not long ago. It isn’t crazy to think he could trade the 14th here.

 

[Xirik]

They are unequivocally as good as he was at the time, yes. Debatable whether they are at present. Romanov plays a couple more minutes per game, but doesn’t produce any more than either, despite being older and apparently more experienced, and his metrics are terrible.

Also, Grier traded the 11th overall for two 2nds not long ago. It isn’t crazy to think he could trade the 14th here.

If they are as good and are two players instead of just one like the Romanov deal then why aren't you asking fans of teams in the top 10 instead of Sharks fans?

Two defenseman that are as good as Romanov at the time should get you way more.