Proposal: MTL-SJ

[Garbageyuk]

Everyone thought it was funny except OP, so I think you’re good.


That weight might matter more if Mailloux played a lick of defense. Whereas Mukhamadullin’s better length is more important because he’s a strong rush defender who doesn’t sacrifice defense for his points.

You very clearly haven’t watched Mailloux any time recently. He really worked on and rounded out his game his last year in London, and has developed into a legitimate two-way D. I mean, the defensive side still isn’t his strong suit, but it isn’t really a weakness anymore. He’s fast, mobile, physical, and his positioning and stick work has improved leaps and bounds and continues to.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I didn't know that one, I'll try to remember it.

At least this thread will have served some kind of a useful purpose.

Also, as a Habs fan, I apologize for all of this.

All good, everyone has bad days.

Like you said, Barron or whoever could he good pickups for the Sharks, but in Bordeleau/Gushchin type player swaps. I don’t think any of those players hold significant draft capital value.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

To MTL:

14th overall pick ‘24

To SJ:

1st round pick ‘24 (from Jets)
Choice of 2 of Harris/Kovacevic/Mesar/Barron

Thoughts?

Why is SJ trading down?

 

[pth2]

Why is SJ trading down?

Apparently, they badly want 3d pairing D.
/s

 

[Garbageyuk]

There are plenty of D who could slot into SJS top 4 that can be acquired on waivers, cheap in FA, or for a mid/late-round pick.

Why would they choose two guys who cost way more while not standing out from the rest of the pack?

They won't & they wouldnt.

You aren’t going to find any young NHL calibre D with upside on waivers or free agency. Come on man, you know that’s not true.

Via trade, sure, but both Barron and Harris would cost more than a mid pick. They will likely be traded soon, so we’ll find out what they’re worth shortly.

 

[Xirik]

General rule of thumb for the Sharks and the Senators for that matter is they place more value on height a bit more then other teams do. Montreal also seems to be focusing a bit more on this now that they have a fair amount of small skilled guys. This is why they probably make bad trade partners.

Roy would make more sense for the Sharks instead of Mesar but as stated above Habs probably want to keep him. Beck Also makes sense but trading him would leave to big of a hole in their center depth.


Sharks have done better with focusing on more on height compared to the Senators, They haven't drafted a Boucher.

 

[pth2]

All good, everyone has bad days.

Like you said, Barron or whoever could he good pickups for the Sharks, but in Bordeleau/Gushchin type player swaps. I don’t think any of those players hold significant draft capital value.

Depends on how you define "significant". Harris for SJ's 3d could work (if SJ still had it), if SJ like what he brings to the table.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Thrun and Mukhamadullin exist and Cagnoni just broke a WHL record

If Barron and Harris had 2nd pairing D upside Habs wouldn't trade them

Barron is the same age as Thrun (actually 7 mos. younger), was selected higher in the draft after Thrun, has had the better pro career thus far and plays the more valuable position.

Harris is about the same number of months older than Thrun than Thrun is to Barron. Last year, Harris' numbers were pretty similar to Thrun's this year (last year's Harris being the same age as this year's Thrun). I get that turning 24 this summer means Harris may not have as much growth in his game left.

I don't think any of them have 2nd pairing upside. Which begs the question: why would SJ add 2 more guys who are really no different than Thrun or Emberson?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Apparently, they badly want 3d pairing D.
/s

Maybe we can trade all our 3rd pairing D and 4th line forwards and 7th round picks for SJ's unprotected first next year?

If you throw enough crap at it, its bound to be worth something right?

 

[Gecklund]

Barron is the same age as Thrun (actually 7 mos. younger), was selected higher in the draft after Thrun, has had the better pro career thus far and plays the more valuable position.

Harris is about the same number of months older than Thrun than Thrun is to Barron. Last year, Harris' numbers were pretty similar to Thrun's this year (last year's Harris being the same age as this year's Thrun). I get that turning 24 this summer means Harris may not have as much growth in his game left.

I don't think any of them have 2nd pairing upside. Which begs the question: why would SJ add 2 more guys who are really no different than Thrun or Emberson?

I think the bigger thing too is that there’s a pretty clear drop around that 14-16 range in the draft and I think I’d prefer a say Eiserman, Sennecke, etc. over say Hemming, Luchanko and any of those 2 pieces.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Why is SJ trading down?

Because they need young NHL ready D more than any team in the league and they already have the 1st overall pick?

 

[Gecklund]

Because they need young NHL ready D more than any team in the league and they already have the 1st overall pick?

And you still haven’t told us why. We have 11 dmen that are fighting for 6 spots next year, before adding anyone. 4 of them are 23 or younger and then you got Ferraro who is only 25.

 

[Lindys Lazy Eye]

That's a better idea than the OP.

Still no, though, but not as silly.

Doesn't 'not as' silly still indicate that it is in fact, silly.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

You aren’t going to find any young NHL calibre D with upside on waivers or free agency. Come on man, you know that’s not true.

Via trade, sure, but both Barron and Harris would cost more than a mid pick. They will likely be traded soon, so we’ll find out what they’re worth shortly.

Declan Chisholm, Tobias Bjornfot, Mike Reilly, John Ludvig, Ty Emberson, Johnny Kovacevic, Josh Mahura, Juuso Välimäki... all in a similar tier and all acquired on waivers.

Barron and Harris will hold some appeal and will likely both return top 100 picks, they are not pieces that move the needle to acquire a top 15 pick

 

[Juxtaposer]

Depends on how you define "significant". Harris for SJ's 3d could work (if SJ still had it), if SJ like what he brings to the table.

I only really see 1st and 2nds as having “significant” value, personally, but that’s just me. An early 3rd is probably fair value for Barron, but give how early the Sharks are in our re-build, I’m hesitant to trade any draft capital at all for depth guys who probably won’t be here when the Sharks are competitive.

 

[Xirik]

I only really see 1st and 2nds as having “significant” value, personally, but that’s just me. An early 3rd is probably fair value for Barron, but give how early the Sharks are in our re-build, I’m hesitant to trade any draft capital at all for depth guys who probably won’t be here when the Sharks are competitive.

Depends on how good the teams scouts are, There a plenty of diamonds hidden amongst the latter round desert. More Picks means more chances of finding that diamond.

Bratt, Sharangovich, and Zetterlund were all found in the later rounds and all in their own ways helped the Devils get better.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Depends on how good the teams scouts are, There a plenty of diamonds hidden amongst the latter round desert. More Picks means more chances of finding that diamond.

Bratt, Sharangovich, and Zetterlund were all found in the later rounds and all in their own ways helped the Devils get better.

Right, that’s sort of my point. Most likely our mid to late round picks won’t yield a player better than Barron, but there’s always a chance they could and we’re not in a position to give up those lottery tickets for a guy who is just a depth player.

 

[BLNY]

Counter-offer: 14 + 33 + 42 for 5th overall

Understandable response, but in most drafts the drop in talent from 5 to 14 is more than 14 to 24. How much varies from year to year.

That said, I don't see the Sharks going for this.

 

[pth2]

I only really see 1st and 2nds as having “significant” value, personally, but that’s just me. An early 3rd is probably fair value for Barron, but give how early the Sharks are in our re-build, I’m hesitant to trade any draft capital at all for depth guys who probably won’t be here when the Sharks are competitive.

From my point of view, Barron isn't a depth player - he's a guy you acquire hoping to develop him into a top-4 offensive defenseman. A Jeff Petry-lite outcome for him isn't at all impossible. He'd be in the middle of his prime just when the "new core" would be entering theirs.

Harris would be more of a depth play, to try and just improve all-around competitiveness so the kids don't develop in (too much of) a losing environment.

 

[GRANdSharks]

Because they need young NHL ready D more than any team in the league and they already have the 1st overall pick?

Sharks have an abundance of bottom pairing fringe 2nd pairing d man either at the NHL level or with the potential to be that. What we need is proven quality d man or high end prospects on the blueline. I understand you like your guys but they do not fit that criteria. And we're not trading out of a pick that can potentially be used to add another difference maker to our system

 

[pth2]

Because they need young NHL ready D more than any team in the league and they already have the 1st overall pick?

In 2022, when Montreal had the #1 pick, would we have wanted them to trade away their other 1st rounder, just because they had the #1 pick ?

I mean, it might make it possible to consider moving the pick, but it certainly wouldn't go at a discount.

---

This season, if Winnipeg had badly stumbled after getting Monahan and Montreal had the #14 pick... would we move it for a Barron, Harris or Mesar equivalent ? Of course not.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Sharks have an abundance of bottom pairing fringe 2nd pairing d man either at the NHL level or with the potential to be that. What we need is proven quality d man or high end prospects on the blueline. I understand you like your guys but they do not fit that criteria. And we're not trading out of a pick that can potentially be used to add another difference maker to our system

You can not like the trade, that’s fair, but they have both proven they are already bottom pairing NHL D, especially Harris. And they are both young with top-4 upside. I’ve little doubt that Harris will be a solid top-4 D somewhere. It just won’t be in MTL.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

To MTL:

14th overall pick ‘24

To SJ:

1st round pick ‘24 (from Jets)
Choice of 2 of Harris/Kovacevic/Mesar/Barron

Thoughts?

Thoughts:

- I get you’d want to capture some value out of guys that are trending expendable for Montreal. So how do they profile for the Sharks needs?
- Being young and an NHL defender isn’t enough for the Sharks to seriously deprecate the 14th overall. The concrete needs are specifically top 4 RD. Barron, Kovacevic, and Harris all have some track record at the NHL level, but are they trending towards top 4 difference makers? The Sharks probably have decent potential solutions for their third pairing. Personally, for the short term I’m totally fine using UFA or the odd cap savings trade to source decent vet placeholders for top 4 roles, with far less importance placed on youth.
- At a glance, Mesars profiles pretty similarly to what the Sharks already have in Bordeleau, Guschin, and to a lesser degree Robbins. These are players that don’t really mesh well with Grier’s stated goal of being hard to play against, or the moves he’s made to target bigger players with a heavier game.
- Moving from 14th to ~27th hurts from the Sharks perspective, essentially moving out of the 5-15th tier where there’s not a clear consensus on prospect rankings to the next tier of prospects that are considerably less interesting. From 14 the Sharks can either sit back and take the BPA/faller from that tier or put some package together to move up a few slots and get a player they really like.
- From Montreals perspective this doesn’t seem to hurt at all as all of the players offered seem easily replaced or unlikely to be in future plans.

Beyond just getting young NHL roster players (and likely bottom of the roster players at that) what is actually motivating the Sharks to make this move?

 

[pth2]

You can not like the trade, that’s fair, but they have both proven they are already bottom pairing NHL D, especially Harris. And they are both young with top-4 upside. I’ve little doubt that Harris will be a solid top-4 D somewhere. It just won’t be in MTL.

Harris is unlikely to be a steady top-4. He's the perfect 3d pairing guy who can step up to the top 4 for 10 games, though.

Barron might develop into a top-4, but might also end up not having enough offense to be worth keeping as a specialist 6th D, so he's a bigger gamble, with more risk and more potential return. Definitely not a sure thing, so we can't expect sure-thing type value, either.

 

[Garbageyuk]

In 2022, when Montreal had the #1 pick, would we have wanted them to trade away their other 1st rounder, just because they had the #1 pick ?

I mean, it might make it possible to consider moving the pick, but it certainly wouldn't go at a discount.

---

This season, if Winnipeg had badly stumbled after getting Monahan and Montreal had the #14 pick... would we move it for a Barron, Harris or Mesar equivalent ? Of course not.

Strawman argument. I didn’t say SJ should trade the 14th strictly because they have the first overall.

And I know this is your schtick, I’ve seen you in several other threads siding with opposing teams fans. Not sure what you really get out of it, but sure.

It isn’t some grave offense to post a trade proposal, regardless of how the other team feels about it. Despite the incessant whining in this thread from certain individuals, this was a legitimate proposal intended for debate and discussion- the very purpose of this forum.

The premise isn’t at all crazy. MTL acquired the 13th overall two years ago by trading a depth D.