News Article: MLB To Raleigh

CandyCanes

Caniac turned Jerkiac
Jan 8, 2015
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Tom Dundon openly just stated he’s putting together a group to try and bring an MLB team to Raleigh. If there was anyone that could pull it off, it’d be him. I’m super excited about the possibility of this.

 

HisIceness

This is Hurricanes Hockey
Sep 16, 2010
40,426
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Charlotte
My guess is Montreal and Nashville get the eventual expansion bids. Nashville is tricky with its size and already having the NFL/MLS/NHL but they have interested investors and they'd do okay with visiting bachelor parties I think. Montreal is a given.

Still got the Rays/As/Brewers to sort out. But again anything to keep Charlotte off the docket is good with me.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

Russian Bulldozer Consultent
Jul 31, 2017
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My guess is Montreal and Nashville get the eventual expansion bids. Nashville is tricky with its size and already having the NFL/MLS/NHL but they have interested investors and they'd do okay with visiting bachelor parties I think. Montreal is a given.

Still got the Rays/As/Brewers to sort out. But again anything to keep Charlotte off the docket is good with me.
I think 5 teams would veto Nashville getting a team. They would lose a tv market if the team was able to exist.
 
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Nikishin Go Boom

Russian Bulldozer Consultent
Jul 31, 2017
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So Braves and Cardinals?

Am I missing something else here?
Sorry. I forget about kentucky. The Ohio teams and i believe the DC team does too. Im trying to find the exact teams via an article. Its late. I’ll find it tomorrow
 

Navin R Slavin

Fifth line center
Jan 1, 2011
16,217
63,684
Durrm NC
Again, this should be a no-brainer IMO. Promote the Durham Bulls to MLB and re-develop Durham Bulls Athletic Park into an MLB-sized facility. They have the history and the universal name recognition to be a success in the majors as long as there's a good team backing it up.

I was gonna say that even with an expansion the DBAP would be by far the smallest park in the league, but then I saw that the Trop's seating capacity was reduced to 25k in 2019. The DBAP could probably match that, but the only way would be to build at least two additional decks up the baselines. Still, it's possible.

But then again, why would Dundon do that? All his investments are going to be in Raleigh. If he's building an entertainment district, will he want to split his resources, or maximize his profits? I think we all know the answer.
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
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Again, this should be a no-brainer IMO. Promote the Durham Bulls to MLB and re-develop Durham Bulls Athletic Park into an MLB-sized facility. They have the history and the universal name recognition to be a success in the majors as long as there's a good team backing it up.

Everything about this makes sense except that it would put the games in downtown Durham, which is pretty far from the population center of gravity in the Triangle. I’d be surprised if they didn’t look for somewhere more like the airport side of Durham to build a new stadium.
 
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TheReelChuckFletcher

Former TheRillestPaulFenton; Harverd Alum
Jun 30, 2011
10,174
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Raleigh and Chapel Hill, NC
Everything about this makes sense except that it would put the games in downtown Durham, which is pretty far from the population center of gravity in the Triangle. I’d be surprised if they didn’t look for somewhere more like the airport side of Durham to build a new stadium.

RDU's population is not like other metro areas. It's less a city than it is a gigantic suburb, making the population highly decentralized. On top of that, DBAP has direct freeway access, unlike, say, Downtown Raleigh. It's therefore more possible to build up the MLB-level infrastructure in Durham than it is in Raleigh.

Finally, directly across the freeway from DBAP is a low-income housing project called Forest Hill Heights and a senior citizens apartment complex called Morehead Hills that are both on massive plot of lands, large enough that it could potentially house a new, MLB-sized DBAP. You could theoretically replace the current DBAP with a huge parking deck and build pedestrian bridges across the Freeway into a new ballpark, and still having it conveniently next to American Tobacco and all of the restaurants and bars associated with it.

Screenshot 2023-10-03 011425.png
 
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tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
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RDU's population is not like other metro areas. It's less a city than it is a gigantic suburb, making the population highly decentralized.

I get that, but it doesn’t necessarily work in Durham’s favor here. Something like 75% of the population in the Triangle lies in Wake and Johnston County, including the eastern and southern suburbs which are blowing up. People aren’t going to want to go from Fuquay or Knightdale to downtown Durham on any kind of regular basis. Given the everyday attendance demands of MLB, I don’t think it’s feasible to put the team so far west from the center of gravity, which is roughly where PNC Arena is.

On top of that, DBAP has direct freeway access, unlike, say, Downtown Raleigh. It's therefore more possible to build up the MLB-level infrastructure in Durham than it is in Raleigh.

I don’t think anyone’s suggesting downtown Raleigh, which is completely unsuitable in terms of infrastructure.

There are tons of places between Raleigh and Durham which could have direct freeway access. To keep it in Durham for the sake of the Bulls, I would look toward the Brier Creek/Airport area where you have 40 running east-west and 540 running north-south.


Finally, directly across the freeway from DBAP is a low-income housing project called Forest Hill Heights and a senior citizens apartment complex called Morehead Hills that are both on massive plot of lands, large enough that it could potentially house a new, MLB-sized DBAP. You could theoretically replace the current DBAP with a huge parking deck and build pedestrian bridges across the Freeway into a new ballpark, and still having it conveniently next to American Tobacco and all of the restaurants and bars associated with it.

View attachment 748457

Again that sounds great from the standpoint of preserving the Bulls as they are now, but with an upgraded building and profile. But it doesn’t resolve the issue of making it tough to keep enough fans in the stands. MLB-level attendance is going to require Wake County to turn out and support the team day in and day out, long term. I don’t see that happening if it means going all the way to downtown Durham and back, especially at rush hour.

And the optics of demolishing housing for poor people and seniors is pretty bad. If you want angry protesters organizing against the project, that’s a good way to make it happen.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,378
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I get that, but it doesn’t necessarily work in Durham’s favor here. Something like 75% of the population in the Triangle lies in Wake and Johnston County, including the eastern and southern suburbs which are blowing up. People aren’t going to want to go from Fuquay or Knightdale to downtown Durham on any kind of regular basis. Given the everyday attendance demands of MLB, I don’t think it’s feasible to put the team so far west from the center of gravity, which is roughly where PNC Arena is.

All true. One thing that's missing though is with 540 opening up and likely completed before anything like a MLB team happens, the travel to any stadium near Durham won't be much different than travel to many of the other MLB stadiums around the league.

Heck, I lived near Holly Springs and had DPAC season tickets years back. It was only a 30-35 min drive then and 540 wasn't opened. It sometimes sucked driving there if there was an accident on the way there, but 90% of the time it was a non-issue. Getting home was even quicker.
I don’t think anyone’s suggesting downtown Raleigh, which is completely unsuitable in terms of infrastructure.

What about that area south of Raleigh where they are putting in the soccer complex. Is there any synergy that could be gained from that? That's easy access from Garner/Fuquay/Clayton as well as Cary/Apex/Morrisville/Durham because it's right off of 40.
There are tons of places between Raleigh and Durham which could have direct freeway access. To keep it in Durham for the sake of the Bulls, I would look toward the Brier Creek/Airport area where you have 40 running east-west and 540 running north-south.
They'd better act quickly on that though. That area is already becoming a mess and development is occurring at a pace that is easily outstripping the infrastructure. I know first hand as that's where I now live. There's gotta be 10+ housing developments going in within 5 miles of my neighborhood, not to mention all the commercial stuff going up and the airport expansion plans.
Again that sounds great from the standpoint of preserving the Bulls as they are now, but with an upgraded building and profile. But it doesn’t resolve the issue of making it tough to keep enough fans in the stands. MLB-level attendance is going to require Wake County to turn out and support the team day in and day out, long term. I don’t see that happening if it means going all the way to downtown Durham and back, especially at rush hour.
Going all the way to Durham from Garner/Clayton/Fuquay is almost no different than going to Brier Creek, particularly with the completion of 540. I'm not saying a stadium in Durham is the right solution, but if getting southern wake county folks to attend is key, then Brier Creek isn't much better than downtown Durham.
And the optics of demolishing housing for poor people and seniors is pretty bad. If you want angry protesters organizing against the project, that’s a good way to make it happen.
True. In these situations it all depends on what's created to relocate those. As part of the development, if nicer housing is created for those displaced, it can be viewed positively. If it's "Throw them out and let them fend for themselves", clearly that will be bad optics. I've seen it done both ways, but you are right, the optics could be very bad on this right now.
 

Chrispy

Salakuljettaja's Blues
Feb 25, 2009
8,325
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I get that, but it doesn’t necessarily work in Durham’s favor here. Something like 75% of the population in the Triangle lies in Wake and Johnston County, including the eastern and southern suburbs which are blowing up. People aren’t going to want to go from Fuquay or Knightdale to downtown Durham on any kind of regular basis. Given the everyday attendance demands of MLB, I don’t think it’s feasible to put the team so far west from the center of gravity, which is roughly where PNC Arena is.



I don’t think anyone’s suggesting downtown Raleigh, which is completely unsuitable in terms of infrastructure.

There are tons of places between Raleigh and Durham which could have direct freeway access. To keep it in Durham for the sake of the Bulls, I would look toward the Brier Creek/Airport area where you have 40 running east-west and 540 running north-south.
This is the primary issue for any Triangle MLB team. The day-to-day ticket demand isn't going to be going to Durham regularly on weeknights. I like the Brier Creek idea; there still appears to be enough space there NW of Leesville. For now.

Otherwise, the next best area for space that I see is 540 & 64 west of Apex. But that's going to get about as much eastern Wake County use as 5 County Stadium ever did from western Wake County: next to none.
 
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CandyCanes

Caniac turned Jerkiac
Jan 8, 2015
7,206
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The upcoming Downtown South project makes a lot of sense. This is the spot with the original MLS stadium proposal, they have room to change that to a MLB stadium. This project is near downtown and right off of 40.

I don’t think it’s the best option. But there is room to fit an MLB stadium onto PNC arena grounds.

We’re probably one of the few towns in where we’d be extremely sad to lose our minor league team for an MLB squad.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,378
98,017
I'm sure the interest is there for Dundon, but this is "believe it when I see it" territory. Montreal and Nashville are ahead on the expansion list, and of all the Big 4 sports in the US the one that needs expansion the least is probably MLB.

I used to live not far from Montreal and would go to Expos games on occasion. Unless something has changed drastically, I don't see why MLB would want to expand back into Montreal. Attendance was pretty abysmal back then when I used to go.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
51,244
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Winston-Salem NC
I used to live not far from Montreal and would go to Expos games on occasion. Unless something has changed drastically, I don't see why MLB would want to expand back into Montreal. Attendance was pretty abysmal back then when I used to go.
from everything I've heard there's been a number of proposals to get a stadium downtown in Montreal. We'll see if any actually materialize but IIRC that was a large part of the issue (The Big O being a mess of a stadium and a pain in the ass to get to/from).
 
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