MLB 2023

Richie Daggers Crime

Boosted 9 times double masked they/them
Mar 8, 2004
17,355
6,635
Boise
So don’t watch it and stop complaining?
I actually like baseball more than hockey right now, which isn't something I would have said 10 years ago. Hockey has gotten samey to me, with teams basically utilizing the same tactics and strategy, waiting for mistakes to capitalize on. It's like grinding a boss in an RPG over and over to get that RNG drop. Baseball seems more unpredictable to me.
 

saintunspecified

Registered User
Nov 30, 2017
6,071
4,360
Baseball is so boring and slow. I would much rather Watch paint dry
The pitch clock + shortened time between innings have been massive improvements both in terms of shortening game times, and increased strategy. The pitch clock has made baserunning, and infield defense more important parts of the game. I don't have the time to watch as much baseball as I'd like, and I'm not saying anyone who doesn't like baseball should watch it, but the improvement is very real.
 

Lame Lambert

Fire Lou
Mar 5, 2015
21,252
15,695
I actually like baseball more than hockey right now, which isn't something I would have said 10 years ago. Hockey has gotten samey to me, with teams basically utilizing the same tactics and strategy, waiting for mistakes to capitalize on. It's like grinding a boss in an RPG over and over to get that RNG drop. Baseball seems more unpredictable to me.
Completely agree. I think the quality of NHL games has deteriorated rapidly in the past 10 years. People complain that baseball is boring, but I think there’s something to be said about a slower game where you can selectively watch and accomplish other tasks at the same time.
 

MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
27,071
19,814
NYC
Steve Cohen basically bought the Mets a refreshed farm system. They’re cost controlled and talented. And he has money to spend on free agents this fall.
 
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Isles Junkie

Registered User
Jul 4, 2008
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The mets totally revamped their farm system with all of these moves. If we didn't win this year with these old dudes, no way we were going to win next year. I'm very glad they moved on from Verlander & especially Scherzer.
 
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Lame Lambert

Fire Lou
Mar 5, 2015
21,252
15,695
The mets totally revamped their farm system with all of these moves. If we didn't win this year with these old dudes, no way we were going to win next year. I'm very glad they moved on from Verlander & especially Scherzer.
The key for the Mets now is transitioning their mindset to prospect development. Buck needs to be fired this offseason.
 

The Real JT

Louie louie, oh no, me gotta go
Jul 2, 2018
8,022
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Connecticut
Should the Mets have done this if they were in the wildcard spot?
I’ll state the obvious and say that 12 of 30 MLB teams make the playoffs while a significantly higher percentage of NHL teams make the playoffs (50%).

If the Mets squeaked into the playoffs, there would still be some expectation that they might outperform, considering the high powered acquisitions on their squad with proven track records. The same cannot be said for this past season’s Islanders.

It’s fair to say that the Islanders also had far less desirable talent to trade at the deadline than the Mets did. In my mind, the Isles still should have sold off some talent at last year‘s trade deadline, even if it was meant to be a lateral move to flip the assets for NHL talent for this upcoming season.
 
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saintunspecified

Registered User
Nov 30, 2017
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Steve Cohen basically bought the Mets a refreshed farm system. They’re cost controlled and talented. And he has money to spend on free agents this fall.
Yep. Gilbert (the main prospect in the Verlander trade) is that true CF with the + arm you were asking for, but that probably won't be seen till 2025. IMO if Mauricio doesn't work out at 2B next year, they'll try Acuna. I hope they transition Parada to 1B next year, because imo he's not a MLB catcher, especially because the catcher position has become even more defensively important.
Mets doing what the Isles should have done
We all know that's not really possible. You really can't acquire a hockey prospect that's shown the kind of development that e.g. Acuna has shown. And subsidizing players' salary on the way out like Cohen did is also severely limited in the NHL.

Mets now how the best, most athletic group of position player prospects that they've had since... the early 80s? And that's true even if you don't count the catcher who hits the ball 450' regularly, and the 3B who's had a tough first year. If even 3 pan out, they're in good shape.

It's going to be very hard to make the decision on Alonso. I'd feel better about committing to him long term if he were a lefty hitter. But my preference would be to not dedicate a righty DH in the future so the Mets could spell Alvarez behind the plate. I guess it depends on the possible return.
 
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The Real JT

Louie louie, oh no, me gotta go
Jul 2, 2018
8,022
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Connecticut
I’ll state the obvious and say that 12 of 30 MLB teams make the playoffs while a significantly higher percentage of NHL teams make the playoffs (50%).

If the Mets squeaked into the playoffs, there would still be some expectation that they might outperform, considering the high powered acquisitions on their squad with proven track records. The same cannot be said for this past season’s Islanders.

It’s fair to say that the Islanders also had far less desirable talent to trade at the deadline than the Mets did. In my mind, the Isles still should have sold off some talent at last year‘s trade deadline, even if it was meant to be a lateral move to flip the assets for NHL talent for this upcoming season.


I could reply but haven’t we and others done this dance already?

Let’s agree to disagree.
 

Mr Misunderstood

Loser Point User
Apr 11, 2016
10,092
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Charlotte, NC
Should the Mets have done this if they were in the wildcard spot?

Of course not, but that would’ve meant that they would have seen much more consistency out of the guys that they were counting on - Max, McNeil, Marte - and then you could at least expect a decent run down the stretch.

It was so much more about the confidence and resilience the 2023 have not shown. Outside of the 14-7 start, an early sweep of the Phillies, early sweep of the Rays & those Guardians wins, and maybe a little stretch in Arizona, this team has shown nothing consistent.

I commend Cohen and Eppler for ripping the band aid off. I don’t care that they told Max they weren’t trying to compete in 2024, that very well could’ve been a lie to get him to waive his NTC. Cohen is shrewd and sees the bigger picture.

I wish Lou would have ripped the band aid off too. Sure you can argue against me that the Isles would not have received the return that Acuna, Clifford and Gilbert are, but the retool process should have already started.
 

MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
27,071
19,814
NYC
Of course not, but that would’ve meant that they would have seen much more consistency out of the guys that they were counting on - Max, McNeil, Marte - and then you could at least expect a decent run down the stretch.

It was so much more about the confidence and resilience the 2023 have not shown. Outside of the 14-7 start, an early sweep of the Phillies, early sweep of the Rays & those Guardians wins, and maybe a little stretch in Arizona, this team has shown nothing consistent.

I commend Cohen and Eppler for ripping the band aid off. I don’t care that they told Max they weren’t trying to compete in 2024, that very well could’ve been a lie to get him to waive his NTC. Cohen is shrewd and sees the bigger picture.

I wish Lou would have ripped the band aid off too. Sure you can argue against me that the Isles would not have received the return that Acuna, Clifford and Gilbert are, but the retool process should have already started.
It seems that Cohen did not want to throw good money after bad in 2024. That is what drove this step back. He was not content to make a run at the wild card, he wants to go at the Braves and win a World Series as the best team in the National League.

If Cohen had not ripped the band-aid off, next season would have been throwing more money at free agents with short shelf lives and going another year with a flawed CF.

As an aside, I thought Cohen would look at this part of the schedule (Nats, Royals) as the point where the Mets climbed back into the wild card race. Instead he took decisive action and sold.
 

MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
27,071
19,814
NYC
Mets doing what the Isles should have done
If anything the Yankees are the comparison to Lou’s Islanders. Poorly built to compete in today’s game. Paralyzed to make the type of moves necessary to either restock the prospect pool or get the team in contention for the top of the division. Owner content just to make the playoffs.
 
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NC 1972

Registered User
Dec 8, 2017
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820
Completely agree. I think the quality of NHL games has deteriorated rapidly in the past 10 years. People complain that baseball is boring, but I think there’s something to be said about a slower game where you can selectively watch and accomplish other tasks at the same time.
I believe the strategy of everyone collapsing down low in the slot and blocking shots is a huge part of that. The north south game in my view was much better from a fans perspective. Retrieving turnovers and breaking up ice for the pass (headmaning) in my view is more enjoyable then the constant cycling out of the corner. But considering how much the net has shrunk due to the goaltenders size and the equipment this is todays game. there is no doubt todays athletes are bigger , faster and stronger . The equipment is lighter and there's a greater importance placed on diet and nutrition yet our game seems less appealing.
 

Mr Misunderstood

Loser Point User
Apr 11, 2016
10,092
11,074
Charlotte, NC
It seems that Cohen did not want to throw good money after bad in 2024. That is what drove this step back. He was not content to make a run at the wild card, he wants to go at the Braves and win a World Series as the best team in the National League.

If Cohen had not ripped the band-aid off, next season would have been throwing more money at free agents with short shelf lives and going another year with a flawed CF.

As an aside, I thought Cohen would look at this part of the schedule (Nats, Royals) as the point where the Mets climbed back into the wild card race. Instead he took decisive action and sold.

And I completely get it. I also don't hate on his plan to use Max and Verlander as the aces this season. Who else was there? He also went out of his way to get Senga, which has worked out.

They were fantastic last year, he went for it again with some bonafide HOF arms. Diaz injury was the first domino to fall...but really, the fact that 8/9 hitting positions (catcher is the only exclusion) in the lineup have fallen off a cliff compared to 2022, there was no way to combat a losing season.

1 Nimmo down avg & obp
2 Marte way down
3 Lindor down avg
4 Pete down avg
5 Vogey...
6 McNeil down avg
7 Canha down avg
8 Escobar / Baty down
9 Alvarez UP

I'm glad he went for it, and I'm glad he turned the air craft carrier as quick as he could.
 
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MJF

Hope is not a strategy
Sep 6, 2003
27,071
19,814
NYC
And I completely get it. I also don't hate on his plan to use Max and Verlander as the aces this season. Who else was there? He also went out of his way to get Senga, which has worked out.

They were fantastic last year, he went for it again with some bonafide HOF arms. Diaz injury was the first domino to fall...but really, the fact that 8/9 hitting positions (catcher is the only exclusion) in the lineup have fallen off a cliff compared to 2022, there was no way to combat a losing season.

1 Nimmo down avg & obp
2 Marte way down
3 Lindor down avg
4 Pete down avg
5 Vogey...
6 McNeil down avg
7 Canha down avg
8 Escobar / Baty down
9 Alvarez UP

I'm glad he went for it, and I'm glad he turned the air craft carrier as quick as he could.
Agreed. I’m not mad at all that Steve Cohen swung for the fences this year AND that he recognized he doesn’t have the pieces to run it back again next year. I wish Lou had recognized that for the Islanders in 2022.

The worst thing Cohen could have done was written this year off as a one-off and tried for it again next year. Not when the bottom of your rotation is Carrasco and Quintana, the HOFers at the top of your rotation will be 40 and 41 years old, and you don’t have reserves in AAA or AA.
 
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saintunspecified

Registered User
Nov 30, 2017
6,071
4,360
One imagines that the top realistic priorities for the Mets during the offseason is to acquire Yamamoto (RH SP) from Japan, a corner outfielder (preferably one who bats L, and also DH's) on a shortish deal, and a 3/4 starter.

There's reason for optimism wrt the offense. The notion that McNeil & Alonso have gotten unusually unlucky is not a total reach - it's odd (especially with Alonso). Hopefully they can get Marte into a platoon situation, because his decline seems too steep. I think Alvarez will become a true superstar next year. There's really no reason the Mets can't find that LH bat to fill out the lineup - it has to get better than Vogelbach. I really have no idea whether Baty can turn it around - the league found a hole in his swing, and he's yet to respond. But if he doesn't, some rookie or other will get a chance in his place.
 
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