Value of: Mitch Marner this offseason (2.5 mil retained)

[KingDeathMetal]

How many teams in the league would Mitch be the best player on and people are acting as if the Leafs need to beg/retain to move him for contracts they want to get rid of?

People act like they'd be doing the Leafs a favor to take Mitch on.

Leaf Nation is in tantrum mode, this will blow over, everyone will be kissing Mitch's throne again when he's on pace for 100 points. People simp for much less.

Don't want your mid garbage, it's up to Mitch if he's over this annoying fanbase and media or not.

Hockey deal for Mitch sure, if not he's getting extended.

It would be nice if people talked about reality for once, these trade boards are mostly emotional drivel.

Like we're suppose to be envious of teams like the Red Wings with 'real talent' like Dylan Larkin whose career highlight was leading the league in scoring for three weeks in October one time and will never play a playoff game unless he's traded.

I mostly agree, but the Leafs definitely need to retain if they want anything close to value. It's not because Mitch isn't a great player, but because there are few teams that can simply absorb a $12mil cap hit, and those that can will certainly give less in the trade or insist that Toronto takes back a bad contract. You can say "then no trade" all you want, but Marner has 1 year left on the deal. So unless TOR plans on re-signing him, you don't take the risk that you get zero value on the player. It's not a big deal at all to retain salary for one season in order to get max value in a trade.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

I mostly agree, but the Leafs definitely need to retain if they want anything close to value. It's not because Mitch isn't a great player, but because there are few teams that can simply absorb a $12mil cap hit, and those that can will certainly give less in the trade or insist that Toronto takes back a bad contract. You can say "then no trade" all you want, but Marner has 1 year left on the deal. So unless TOR plans on re-signing him, you don't take the risk that you get zero value on the player. It's not a big deal at all to retain salary for one season in order to get max value in a trade.i

It's off season, everyone has cap room, every team is likely to over pay players not half as good as Mitch so the point you're making here is weak.

I'll be charitable to the argument though, Leafs management doesn't have to trade him because the media and online fans (a fringe demographic to the board) are going full emo after a playoff lose.

I'm glad Shanny isn't as soft as the fanbase and he's not going anywhere either. HFboard general mob =/= real world.

 

[derkejohnlee]

Take Liljgren instead of Timmins instead and gave us a 2nd rounder or half-decent prospect. Or take Liljegren AND Timmins.

Marner
Liljegren
(Timmins if you want)

for

Hronek
Mikheyev
Raty
2nd or half-decent prospect

Is Timmins seen in higher regard than Liljegren? I just assumed that Liljegren was somewhat untouchable from leafs. But a 2nd or half decent prospect for basically Liljegren seems great. When I made this proposal, I wanted Liljegren but thought that wouldn't be a fair ask. I thought Timmins would be the less ask.

The idea from Canucks standpoint: Marner becomes a dynamic player with Pettersson or amongst the top 9 forwards. Canucks would have to sign a RD to replace Hronek (Carrier/Pesce/Tanev/Roy/Montour) but Timmins (or Liljegren if the trade goes that way) balances the remaining RD. Mikheyev to balance salaries.

Idea from Leafs standpoint: Much coveted top 4 RD that can be signed after RFA and potentially paired with Reilly. Gets Raty a solid C prospect that's 21 and can be ready to compete for a roster spot. Mikheyev a solid top 9 player to round out their roster who also had good years as a Leaf.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

It's off season, everyone has cap room, every team is likely to over pay players not half as good as Mitch so the point you're making here is weak.

I'll be charitable to the argument though, Leafs management doesn't have to trade him because the media and online fans (a fringe demographic to the board) are going full emo after a playoff lose.

I'm glad Shanny isn't as soft as the fanbase and he's not going anywhere either. HFboard general mob =/= real world.

Every team does not have that type of cap room lol. Come on.

Look, it's YOUR team's management that's out there saying "everything is on the table" and leaking to reporters that Matthews and Nylander are the only untouchables. And it's your player, Marner, who is avoiding media and hiring private security. If you don't think the team and the player are both seriously considering a mutual part, I don't know what to tell ya.

I'm a Rangers fan, and I like the Leafs (them and the Oilers are my second and third favorites). I have no dog in this fight. I'm just telling you that it's a very real possibility that Shanahan asks Marner to waive his NMC, and if he does, it's almost guaranteed that Toronto retains salary to maximize their return.

As a fan, why wouldn't you want them to do that? You'd only be retaining for a year.

 

[29Potvin]

It's off season, everyone has cap room, every team is likely to over pay players not half as good as Mitch so the point you're making here is weak.

I'll be charitable to the argument though, Leafs management doesn't have to trade him because the media and online fans (a fringe demographic to the board) are going full emo after a playoff lose.

I'm glad Shanny isn't as soft as the fanbase and he's not going anywhere either. HFboard general mob =/= real world.

Shanny isnt going anywhere becasue MLSE just finished paying Babs and now Sheldon.
They have Pelley who will shadow Shanny and see if his position is even required moving forward instead of wasting money.
Thats Shanny's only saving grace.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Is Timmins seen in higher regard than Liljegren? I just assumed that Liljegren was somewhat untouchable from leafs. But a 2nd or half decent prospect for basically Liljegren seems great. When I made this proposal, I wanted Liljegren but thought that wouldn't be a fair ask. I thought Timmins would be the less ask.

Liljegren still hasn't solidified himself as a permanent legit top 4 D and he's in his mid 20s. Seems like his trade value is going to drop more and more and more going forward on the Leafs, and seeing as he is now an RFA with no contract, now is the perfect time to trade him. While we can still get some value for him. He can maybe reach more of his potential on another team.

Leafs are ALSO trying to shake up the roster (especially D) and locker room. Even more reason to trade him now.

As for Timmins, he's rarely healthy and rarely plays. Is also getting to an age where his value is less about potential and more about what he is right now. Has low trade value. Lower than Liljegren for sure.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

Every team does not have that type of cap room lol. Come on.

Look, it's YOUR team's management that's out there saying "everything is on the table" and leaking to reporters that Matthews and Nylander are the only untouchables. And it's your player, Marner, who is avoiding media and hiring private security. If you don't think the team and the player are both seriously considering a mutual part, I don't know what to tell ya.

I'm a Rangers fan, and I like the Leafs (them and the Oilers are my second and third favorites). I have no dog in this fight. I'm just telling you that it's a very real possibility that Shanahan asks Marner to waive his NMC, and if he does, it's almost guaranteed that Toronto retains salary to maximize their return.

As a fan, why wouldn't you want them to do that? You'd only be retaining for a year.

There are a bunch of teams that will have 10-30 million to play with, there are non cap teams and after July 1st Marner's salary is like 925k

He's moveable in the off season with relative ease on the issue of cap room. The obstacle is his NMC

Shanny isnt going anywhere becasue MLSE just finished paying Babs and now Sheldon.
They have Pelley who will shadow Shanny and see if his position is even required moving forward instead of wasting money.
Thats Shanny's only saving grace.

It's too internet fringe for me to blame a team president, no other fanbase cares about theirs (maybe some Canadian markets might) It's a super fan zealot issue.

It's not a real problem, it's something for 24/7 Leafers endlessly dissect. As a Leafs fan I'll admit to the nuclear cringe of obsessions like this.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

It's off season, everyone has cap room, every team is likely to over pay players not half as good as Mitch so the point you're making here is weak.

I'll be charitable to the argument though, Leafs management doesn't have to trade him because the media and online fans (a fringe demographic to the board) are going full emo after a playoff lose.

I'm glad Shanny isn't as soft as the fanbase and he's not going anywhere either. HFboard general mob =/= real world.

Are you living under a rock? All teams that are true cup-contenders are tight on capspace. No one can just magically accommodate a 11M contract. That's insane.

 

[Double Dion]

Marner for Kuzmenko. Leafs replace 2/3rds of the offense and can sign a top pairing defender.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Why would I do that? He doesn't have an NMC/NTC.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

Are you living under a rock? All teams that are true cup-contenders are tight on capspace. No one can just magically accommodate a 11M contract. That's insane.

He doesn't have to go to a contender.

 

[29Potvin]

There are a bunch of teams that will have 10-30 million to play with, there are non cap teams and after July 1st Marner's salary is like 925k

He's moveable in the off season with relative ease on the issue of cap room. The obstacle is his NMC


It's too internet fringe for me to blame a team president, no other fanbase cares about theirs (maybe some Canadian markets might) It's a super fan zealot issue.

It's not a real problem, it's something for 24/7 Leafers endlessly dissect. As a Leafs fan I'll admit to the nuclear cringe of obsessions like this.

If his name was John Smith we wouldn't care.
Only issue I see with Shanny is his open comments in the media about players taking discounts and then overpaying.
Also he was about to extend KD before he went rouge in his presser and rushed to hire Tre.

 

[mydnyte]

Liljegren still hasn't solidified himself as a permanent legit top 4 D and he's in his mid 20s. Seems like his trade value is going to drop more and more and more going forward on the Leafs, and seeing as he is now an RFA with no contract, now is the perfect time to trade him. While we can still get some value for him. He can maybe reach more of his potential on another team.

Leafs are ALSO trying to shake up the roster (especially D) and locker room. Even more reason to trade him now.

As for Timmins, he's rarely healthy and rarely plays. Is also getting to an age where his value is less about potential and more about what he is right now. Has low trade value. Lower than Liljegren for sure.

Liljegren was Keefe's screw with his head player... any time he started to get on a roll, he'd get benched for no reason, or hurt. he was never given PP opportunities until really late in the season, and limited even then.
he was completely misused, so, I can see him potentially available, or thriving under a new coach.
he's the only 'decent RHD the Leafs have, Timmins in theory has good offensive instincts/potential, but, he is dreadful in his own zone.

 

[SuperScript29]

Don't want your mid garbage, it's up to Mitch if he's over this annoying fanbase and media or not.

In a nutshell, that will determine whether you get mid garbage or not. So in a way, other teams would be doing you a favor if Marner chooses that he wants out of Toronto, and most importantly, he will hold the cards to where he would want to go. At that point, Toronto gambles whether they let him walk for nothing after next season, or get something in return.

OR

The whole thing is overblown and he stays put in Toronto. We will find out one way or another.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Are you living under a rock? All teams that are true cup-contenders are tight on capspace. No one can just magically accommodate a 11M contract. That's insane.

obviously salary will be going back the other way, it wasn't magic that allowed Florida to acquire Tkachuk they gave up players who made money to make it work

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Marner, Jarnkrok and Liljgren for Jones and Reichel.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Bruins: Draisaitl

Oilers: Marner + Ullmark

Leafs: Carlo + Debrusk

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Rantanen and a pick for Marner. Both with agreements to re sign.

Gives both teams who need a shake up a change. Rantanen is big and can score from the wings. Very different look to the offense.

Marner is better defensively and puts up points in a less favourable situation so has more value. Avs add picks which the Leafs can flip at the deadline for depth.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Rantanen and a pick for Marner. Both with agreements to re sign.

Gives both teams who need a shake up a change. Rantanen is big and can score from the wings. Very different look to the offense.

Marner is better defensively and puts up points in a less favourable situation so has more value. Avs add picks which the Leafs can flip at the deadline for depth.

Avs don't need a shakeup. They need young cheap guys to fill out their depth, but they don't have good picks/prospects anymore, so they aren't getting what they need. The way to fix this is with a time machine, not a trade. They probably prefer to keep Rantanen over Marner as well, even if they did want a shakeup. Girard or Georgiev would be way more likely being swapped out for a different player if they were going to do a shakeup.

Also, Byram for Mittelstadt was already their shakeup, and it worked out nicely.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Avs don't need a shakeup. They need young cheap guys to fill out their depth, but they don't have good picks/prospects anymore, so they aren't getting what they need. The way to fix this is with a time machine, not a trade. They probably prefer to keep Rantanen over Marner as well, even if they did want a shakeup. Girard or Georgiev would be way more likely being swapped out for a different player if they were going to do a shakeup.

Also, Byram for Mittelstadt was already their shakeup, and it worked out nicely.

They lost to Seattle in the first round and are getting dunked on by Dallas.

They replaced the depth but the top guns haven't shown up since midway through the series against Seattle.

They need a shakeup at the top of the lineup.

 

[seanlinden]

Rantanen and a pick for Marner. Both with agreements to re sign.

Gives both teams who need a shake up a change. Rantanen is big and can score from the wings. Very different look to the offense.

Marner is better defensively and puts up points in a less favourable situation so has more value. Avs add picks which the Leafs can flip at the deadline for depth.

I don't believe the Avs would do that.... nor do I think they have any interest in moving off Rantanen.

That being said, if I were to "galaxy brain" this a bit... how about:

To Colorado: Mitch Marner @ 50% retained.
To Toronto: Mikko Rantanen, full hit
To Anaheim: 50% of Mitch Marner's cap hit, and something of value from Colorado.

Leafs save $1.75m on the cap this year.
Avs save $4m on the cap this year.

 

[seanlinden]

Bruins: Draisaitl

Oilers: Marner + Ullmark

Leafs: Carlo + Debrusk

Call me crazy... this isn't the most ridiculous proposal I've ever heard.

Giving up Marner and only ending up with Carlo and negotiating rights on Debrusk seems light, but Carlo would be a great fit on the Leafs blueline.

Seems like a ton of risk for both Boston and Edmonton though.. I get the sense that this kind of deal only really works if Draisaitl wants Boston, and Marner wants Edmonton.

 

[Breakers]

A good right-shot youngish d-man with size and with term.

 

[bert]

It's off season, everyone has cap room, every team is likely to over pay players not half as good as Mitch so the point you're making here is weak.

I'll be charitable to the argument though, Leafs management doesn't have to trade him because the media and online fans (a fringe demographic to the board) are going full emo after a playoff lose.

I'm glad Shanny isn't as soft as the fanbase and he's not going anywhere either. HFboard general mob =/= real world.

You guys should definitely run it back! Its gone so well. Good point.

Call me crazy... this isn't the most ridiculous proposal I've ever heard.

Giving up Marner and only ending up with Carlo and negotiating rights on Debrusk seems light, but Carlo would be a great fit on the Leafs blueline.

Seems like a ton of risk for both Boston and Edmonton though.. I get the sense that this kind of deal only really works if Draisaitl wants Boston, and Marner wants Edmonton.

Carlo has way more value than Marner. People really dont understand contract status, positional value, the salary cap, NMC etc. Carlo has three more seasons at 4.1 million playing the most sought after position in hockey. Is exactly what a playoff team needs. Marner is a year from UFA makes 7 million more per season. Also plays the least valuable position.

This trade is incredible for Toronto and terrible for Edmonton specifically. Trading Draisaitl for two players walking to UFA who make way more money lol. Just wild. Yes I am aware that Drai is also going to be a UFA but he's so much better than Marner its not remotely close and makes way less.

 

[Silky Johnson]

I don't think his return will be that good after this playoffs. Something like Marner for Chabot and Pinto.

No thanks!