Midseason grades?

[AfroThunder396]

because, somehow - advanced stats make more sense than:

I was on the ice for a goal against.

I was on the ice for a goal for.

Somewhere, Scott Stevens and his +377 wants to punch your face.

All stats are useless without context.

You don't think it's a coincidence that all the worst +/- players are ones that get heavy minutes on bad teams, and all the best ones get heavy minutes on good teams?

 

[billingtons ghost]

All stats are useless without context.

You don't think it's a coincidence that all the worst +/- players are ones that get heavy minutes on bad teams, and all the best ones get heavy minutes on good teams?

Uh, you don't think it is a coincidence that good teams are good because good defensemen get heavy minutes and stop the puck from going in? You haven't seen anyone with a good +/- on a bad team?

Dennis Seidenberg is somehow a +16 playing heavy minutes for the Isles. Pesce(Car), Slavvin(Car), Methot(OTT), Gardiner(TOR) all above 20min/Game and +10.

Like I said:
Last year, Larsson, same numbers, same situation, different results.

Let's stop pretending that Severson's plus/minus makes him a victim of circumstance. His pinches, turnovers and missed assignments contribute to it. Would you like to put together a nice little youtube collection of pucks hopping over his stick at the point? I think it's been about one a game, so...

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

From the coaching staff to the players, everybody on this team owns this failure, so if I'm writing their report cards, I'm just going to keep it concise and say:

 

[Jets012]

Beau Bennett: B (Best possession forward, best defensive forward this year. Would be an A if he was producing more points wise)
Michael Cammalleri: C+ (He's been a fine 2nd liner, but we needed more)
Vernon Fiddler: C (Hasn't done much honestly)
Luke Gazdic: F (Trash player)
Taylor Hall: B+ (Great possession forward for us, just doesn't have the talent around him)
Adam Henrique: C- (Been terrible in possession, been terrible defensively. Really hasn't done much)
Jacob Josefson: C (Good at shootouts I guess)
Sergey Kalinin: D (Decent 4th line possession winger, black-hole offensively this year)
Nick Lappin: C (He's looked like he has a long-term role here as a 4th liner. Perhaps can grow into a top 9 role)
Kyle Palmieri: D (Been horrible on the Power Play. For what we needed him to do, he's failing. He's been bad possession-wise too. Getting outplayed by other RWs on the team. Looking like a 3rd line guy)
PA Parenteau: A- (For getting him for nothing, he's been great. Playing like a legitimate top 6 forward. Outplaying Palmieri and Henrique. He's been really solid possession wise)
Devante Smith-Pelly: F (He's ****ing horrible. He shouldn't be playing NHL minutes. Hynes is an idiot)
Miles Wood: B (Brings excitement at least. Still needs a lot of work, but he's even been gradually improving possession wise. Hope he continues to grow)
Pavel Zacha: C (The possession carrying is starting to come. He needs to start getting some points though)
Travis Zajac B+ (He's been a good 2nd line center. He's been one of our best forwards)

Defenseman:
Yohann Auvitu: A (Got the best advanced numbers out of all of our defenseman. He should still be up there in the NHL playing with one of Santini, Severosn, Merill)
Andy Greene: B (He's actually been a solid top 4 defenseman this year. I think him and Severson have done an admirable job)
Seth Helgeson: F (Just not that good)
Ben Lovejoy: F (He's cost us games. He's been one of the worse defenseman in the NHL this year. Another joke that we signed this guy over Schlemko)
Jon Merrill: B+ (He's improved. He's been suited to a low-event system, but he's been steady as a rock. Really liking what he's shown this year)
John Moore: F (Another garbage player Hynes loves. He's a good skater and that's it. He's horrible. One of the worst in the league)
Kyle Quincey: C (His speed just kills him. Started off fine, starting to get exposed)
Steven Santini: A (Very small sample size, but could not be more impressed. If he keeps this up, we got something nice here)
Damon Severson: A- (He's the best defenseman on the team. It's not his fault that when he's not playing with Greene, he's playing with borderline NHL defenseman)


Keith Kinkaid: B (He's been fine. Shocking that he's been this solid)
Cory Schneider: D (The defense is bad, but the reality is, he's been quite bad too. His save percentage is awful and bad defensive teams usually don't lead to this poor of a save percentage. He's been a huge problem this year and I have no idea why)


So yea those are my grades. I'm sure most would disagree with me on Auvitu and Severson, but I really think they've both done their jobs and looked real promising. Some would say I'm too harsh on Lovejoy and Moore, but I don't think people realize just how much of liabilities those two are. Every single stat shows it.

 

[Zippy316]

Beau Bennett: B (Best possession forward, best defensive forward this year. Would be an A if he was producing more points wise)
Michael Cammalleri: C+ (He's been a fine 2nd liner, but we needed more)
Vernon Fiddler: C (Hasn't done much honestly)
Luke Gazdic: F (Trash player)
Taylor Hall: B+ (Great possession forward for us, just doesn't have the talent around him)
Adam Henrique: C- (Been terrible in possession, been terrible defensively. Really hasn't done much)
Jacob Josefson: C (Good at shootouts I guess)
Sergey Kalinin: D (Decent 4th line possession winger, black-hole offensively this year)
Nick Lappin: C (He's looked like he has a long-term role here as a 4th liner. Perhaps can grow into a top 9 role)
Kyle Palmieri: D (Been horrible on the Power Play. For what we needed him to do, he's failing. He's been bad possession-wise too. Getting outplayed by other RWs on the team. Looking like a 3rd line guy)
PA Parenteau: A- (For getting him for nothing, he's been great. Playing like a legitimate top 6 forward. Outplaying Palmieri and Henrique. He's been really solid possession wise)
Devante Smith-Pelly: F (He's ****ing horrible. He shouldn't be playing NHL minutes. Hynes is an idiot)
Miles Wood: B (Brings excitement at least. Still needs a lot of work, but he's even been gradually improving possession wise. Hope he continues to grow)
Pavel Zacha: C (The possession carrying is starting to come. He needs to start getting some points though)
Travis Zajac B+ (He's been a good 2nd line center. He's been one of our best forwards)

Defenseman:
Yohann Auvitu: A (Got the best advanced numbers out of all of our defenseman. He should still be up there in the NHL playing with one of Santini, Severosn, Merill)
Andy Greene: B (He's actually been a solid top 4 defenseman this year. I think him and Severson have done an admirable job)
Seth Helgeson: F (Just not that good)
Ben Lovejoy: F (He's cost us games. He's been one of the worse defenseman in the NHL this year. Another joke that we signed this guy over Schlemko)
Jon Merrill: B+ (He's improved. He's been suited to a low-event system, but he's been steady as a rock. Really liking what he's shown this year)
John Moore: F (Another garbage player Hynes loves. He's a good skater and that's it. He's horrible. One of the worst in the league)
Kyle Quincey: C (His speed just kills him. Started off fine, starting to get exposed)
Steven Santini: A (Very small sample size, but could not be more impressed. If he keeps this up, we got something nice here)
Damon Severson: A- (He's the best defenseman on the team. It's not his fault that when he's not playing with Greene, he's playing with borderline NHL defenseman)


Keith Kinkaid: B (He's been fine. Shocking that he's been this solid)
Cory Schneider: D (The defense is bad, but the reality is, he's been quite bad too. His save percentage is awful and bad defensive teams usually don't lead to this poor of a save percentage. He's been a huge problem this year and I have no idea why)


So yea those are my grades. I'm sure most would disagree with me on Auvitu and Severson, but I really think they've both done their jobs and looked real promising. Some would say I'm too harsh on Lovejoy and Moore, but I don't think people realize just how much of liabilities those two are. Every single stat shows it.

Bennett, Auvitu, Severson, and Parenteau are way too high. Lovejoy's ranking is unfair. I'd have Bennett at C+, Auvitu at a B, Severson at a B, Parenteau at a B-, Lovejoy at a C, Schneider at a C, but I agree with the rest of your rankings. I'd probably bump Quincey down to a D+ as well. In all honesty, it seems like there are brief stretches for some players that clouded your overall rankings, Auvitu and Schneider being good examples.

No player deserves an A grade on this team right now.

 

[Triumph]

Uh, you don't think it is a coincidence that good teams are good because good defensemen get heavy minutes and stop the puck from going in? You haven't seen anyone with a good +/- on a bad team?

Dennis Seidenberg is somehow a +16 playing heavy minutes for the Isles. Pesce(Car), Slavvin(Car), Methot(OTT), Gardiner(TOR) all above 20min/Game and +10.

Like I said:
Last year, Larsson, same numbers, same situation, different results.

Let's stop pretending that Severson's plus/minus makes him a victim of circumstance. His pinches, turnovers and missed assignments contribute to it. Would you like to put together a nice little youtube collection of pucks hopping over his stick at the point? I think it's been about one a game, so...

It's cool that you've singled out this year's coinflip competition winners and losers. Seidenberg in particular is merely very lucky this year. He's having a decent year - better than I thought he could have at this point - but he is also extremely lucky. Severson, not so much.

How's Larsson doing this year? Not that good, huh? Guess he's just worse this year on a better team. He gets 0 PP time and is even on an even team. Might just be that he's an even player.

 

[Emperoreddy]

That Lovejoy hate is nuts. He is serviable but is forced to play more then we should. Same with Quincy actually.

 

[Zippy316]

That Lovejoy hate is nuts. He is serviable but is forced to play more then we should. Same with Quincy actually.

Lovejoy is perfect as a second pairing D with a puck-moving LD that carries him at even strength OR as a third pairing D that anchors a puck-moving D on the third pairing with limited even strength minutes.

We don't have the luxury to do either and he's been way overplayed. That is not his fault though.

 

[Triumph]

No, Lovejoy is awful. If he does anything well, I haven't seen it yet.

 

[Devils Dominion]

LJ is ideally a 7th dman.

Terrible signing by RS.

 

[Jets012]

That Lovejoy hate is nuts. He is serviable but is forced to play more then we should. Same with Quincy actually.

Lovejoy is really bad. He's been horrible analytically this year.

And he's typically throughout his career been a fairly consistent player. He was one of the most dependable guys in the league in terms of what you can expect from him. He was typically a very strong #4/#5 that could play the PK and play tough minutes.

But he's regressed DRASTICALLY this year. In literally every stat. His analytics are not just near the bottom of the Devils roster, it's near the bottom of the NHL as a whole.

 

[GeNeXt]

Yeah, I want to throw things every time I've seen Lovejoy in 3-on-3. He should be a number 5/6. Maybe he can be a #4, if playing for a good possession team, and with a solid two-way defenceman, but he's not very good. Maybe 5 years ago, but the quantity of grenade handling defencemen have greatly decreased, and will be extinct very soon.

 

[Zippy316]

No, Lovejoy is awful. If he does anything well, I haven't seen it yet.

I disagree.

The point is he needs to be in a role that heavily shelters his defiencies five-on-five or played in limited situations; played when the team is protecting a lead late in the game and getting heavy PK minutes but limited even strength minutes.

The sheltering his deficiencies five-on-five is why I said a puck-moving defender is what he needs to be paired with. He's had his best numbers career-wise in his biggest sample size with Cam Fowler and Brian Dumoulin. He was doing quite well earlier in the year with Auvitu when Moore-Quincey were playing the heavy minutes after Greene-Severson.

 

[Jets012]

Bennett, Auvitu, Severson, and Parenteau are way too high. Lovejoy's ranking is unfair. I'd have Bennett at C+, Auvitu at a B, Severson at a B, Parenteau at a B-, Lovejoy at a C, Schneider at a C, but I agree with the rest of your rankings. I'd probably bump Quincey down to a D+ as well. In all honesty, it seems like there are brief stretches for some players that clouded your overall rankings, Auvitu and Schneider being good examples.

No player deserves an A grade on this team right now.

I could buy that no player deserves an A. I guess I could buy Auvitu's grade is too high. After all it was a small sample size with him, but to be fair if you think his stretch of playing good was small, then his stretch of playing poorly was also a very small sample size. He got sent down after 3-5 really poor games and really hasn't been given a chance back. No maybe those 3-5 games were indicative of his actual talent level, but I rather use what I saw in Preseason and the first 15-20 games.

Paranteau I gave an A just because there were no expectations on him. I'd be fine giving him a B+. In reality, I still think he's been our best RW this year. He's basically been a possession driver no matter who he is playing with.

Severson I just won't agree with people. Perhaps at times he's been overmatched, but I just love the kids ability. I will admit, he does still turn the puck over too much and occasionally will make a bad play that turns out awful for us, but I love how he's progressed. All of his analytic numbers are good. He's the only defenseman on this roster that you can count on to get points (his points per 60 is very high for all defenseman), his corsi is higher, his SA/60 is good, etc. Maybe he isn't a top pairing defenseman yet, but I think he's a damn good #3 on just about every team. Probably a #2 on most teams. I really think when he's not playing with Quincey/Lovejoy/Moore he's been excelling compared to the rest of our defenseman.

 

[Jets012]

LJ is ideally a 7th dman.

Terrible signing by RS.

I understand the thought process that he thought he was getting the Lovejoy of 2012-2015, but letting Schlemko walk for Lovejoy was probably Shero's worst move to date. And I'm a big fan of what Shero has done, but that move has just backfired from day one. Schlemko's possession stats are near the top of one of the best possession teams in hockey, while Lovejoy's are at the bottom of one of the worst possession teams in hockey.

I don't think people realize how much that has hurt our team this year. It turned a mediocre to average D corps into one of the worst in hockey. It's been completely overlooked.

 

[Zippy316]

I could buy that no player deserves an A. I guess I could buy Auvitu's grade is too high. After all it was a small sample size with him, but to be fair if you think his stretch of playing good was small, then his stretch of playing poorly was also a very small sample size. He got sent down after 3-5 really poor games and really hasn't been given a chance back. No maybe those 3-5 games were indicative of his actual talent level, but I rather use what I saw in Preseason and the first 15-20 games.

Paranteau I gave an A just because there were no expectations on him. I'd be fine giving him a B+. In reality, I still think he's been our best RW this year. He's basically been a possession driver no matter who he is playing with.

Severson I just won't agree with people. Perhaps at times he's been overmatched, but I just love the kids ability. I will admit, he does still turn the puck over too much and occasionally will make a bad play that turns out awful for us, but I love how he's progressed. All of his analytic numbers are good. He's the only defenseman on this roster that you can count on to get points (his points per 60 is very high for all defenseman), his corsi is higher, his SA/60 is good, etc. Maybe he isn't a top pairing defenseman yet, but I think he's a damn good #3 on just about every team. Probably a #2 on most teams. I really think when he's not playing with Quincey/Lovejoy/Moore he's been excelling compared to the rest of our defenseman.

I don't disagree one bit on Severson and his ability, but we're talking grades based on what he's produced so far this year. I wouldn't give him an A- because I think his on-ice play this year has some flaws he needs to work out. It's still been a good year from him though, hence the B.

Auvitu was very strong early on, no doubt, but his lack of production worries me. Too many times it seemed like his decisions led to lower scoring chances than he could've produced. For a guy like him, it was frustrating to see him shoot at the goalie rather than catch the guy coming back door etc. As a small skilled defensemen who has some troubles defensively, he needs to see those plays and make them on a consistent basis. If he doesn't and doesn't produce, his defensive issues aren't going to make up for his lack of production.

Parenteau has been a possession driver but a lot of that has been due to Hall. He's been the beneficiary of a lot of Hall's dirty work as well. His defensive issues at times are what knocks him down a bit as well.

 

[Jets012]

I don't disagree one bit on Severson and his ability, but we're talking grades based on what he's produced so far this year. I wouldn't give him an A- because I think his on-ice play this year has some flaws he needs to work out. It's still been a good year from him though, hence the B.

Auvitu was very strong early on, no doubt, but his lack of production worries me. Too many times it seemed like his decisions led to lower scoring chances than he could've produced. For a guy like him, it was frustrating to see him shoot at the goalie rather than catch the guy coming back door etc. As a small skilled defensemen who has some troubles defensively, he needs to see those plays and make them on a consistent basis. If he doesn't and doesn't produce, his defensive issues aren't going to make up for his lack of production.

Parenteau has been a possession driver but a lot of that has been due to Hall. He's been the beneficiary of a lot of Hall's dirty work as well. His defensive issues at times are what knocks him down a bit as well.

Yea I agree with all of this. The one knock on Auvitu was he wasn't producing points wise. I couldn't really tell if that was just a result of bad puck luck or something else, but that's a warranted criticism. I still think he's got serious potential in terms of holding the blue line and generating rushes with his skating ability.

Hall has definitely helped Parenteau won't disagree there.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Lovejoy is really bad. He's been horrible analytically this year.

And he's typically throughout his career been a fairly consistent player. He was one of the most dependable guys in the league in terms of what you can expect from him. He was typically a very strong #4/#5 that could play the PK and play tough minutes.

But he's regressed DRASTICALLY this year. In literally every stat. His analytics are not just near the bottom of the Devils roster, it's near the bottom of the NHL as a whole.

It again is more he is being overused. He shouldn't be playing 3 on 3, but that is Hynes. He shouldn't be second in minutes among the D, but again that is partially Hynes and partially the roster not having a better option.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Yea I agree with all of this. The one knock on Auvitu was he wasn't producing points wise. I couldn't really tell if that was just a result of bad puck luck or something else, but that's a warranted criticism. I still think he's got serious potential in terms of holding the blue line and generating rushes with his skating ability.

Hall has definitely helped Parenteau won't disagree there.

I think the knock is he isn't very defensively sound. He can drive play forward and is good on the rush, but when possession switches he is a bit of a mess.

 

[Jets012]

It again is more he is being overused. He shouldn't be playing 3 on 3, but that is Hynes. He shouldn't be second in minutes among the D, but again that is partially Hynes and partially the roster not having a better option.

Perhaps, and that is one of my biggest gripes with Hynes. The misallocation of his scarce resources just frustrates me to no end. Lovejoy is seriously struggling based on how we are employing him and Hynes for some reason thinks that something will end up changing if he continues to give him big minutes.

I understand that we don't have great options on the roster, but we still do have better options. Lovejoy his whole career has been a bottom pairing defenseman that plays PK minutes. And he has carved out a very nice career off of that. Yet, Hynes has never given him a chance to employ him like that. I think based on how everyone has played this year, it's very easy to argue that Auvitu, Santini, Merrill, Severson, Greene have all outplayed Lovejoy. That's why it's annoying that Hynes refuses to limit Lovejoy's minutes.

Would anyone really be upset if the lines were something like:

Severson/Greene
Auvitu/Santini
Merill/Lovejoy

Give Lovejoy his PK minutes and maybe 11-14 minutes on the 5 on 5 each game and I'd bet he would look a whole lot better. And the team would actually play a whole lot better. I mean the guy essentially admitted he wasn't built to play 28 minutes a game. That's just not the player he is.

 

[Triumph]

Perhaps, and that is one of my biggest gripes with Hynes. The misallocation of his scarce resources just frustrates me to no end. Lovejoy is seriously struggling based on how we are employing him and Hynes for some reason thinks that something will end up changing if he continues to give him big minutes.

I understand that we don't have great options on the roster, but we still do have better options. Lovejoy his whole career has been a bottom pairing defenseman that plays PK minutes. And he has carved out a very nice career off of that. Yet, Hynes has never given him a chance to employ him like that. I think based on how everyone has played this year, it's very easy to argue that Auvitu, Santini, Merrill, Severson, Greene have all outplayed Lovejoy. That's why it's annoying that Hynes refuses to limit Lovejoy's minutes.

Would anyone really be upset if the lines were something like:

Severson/Greene
Auvitu/Santini
Merill/Lovejoy

Give Lovejoy his PK minutes and maybe 11-14 minutes on the 5 on 5 each game and I'd bet he would look a whole lot better. And the team would actually play a whole lot better. I mean the guy essentially admitted he wasn't built to play 28 minutes a game. That's just not the player he is.

Lovejoy is only up a minute and a half from last year and I bet a decent portion of that is from having to play 28 minutes when D got injured in game. So no, Lovejoy cannot do his job at all, but I don't think Santini is ready to play 20 minutes a game either. I'd like for him to get more than 13 minutes, but I think for a guy like that playing on a team like this, giving him 3rd pairing minutes and slowly increasing his responsibility as he continues to show promise is the right way forward. The season is lost anyway.

They tried to limit Auvitu's minutes but whether by teams figuring him out, the Devils changing their system. or him getting worn down, his performance really waned before his first demotion. I don't want that to happen to Santini.

 

[Bleedred]

I don't think Lovejoy has been good at all, he's been pretty poor.

I said from the beginning though, Lovejoy and Quincey were necessary evils to keep us from having someone like Helgeson (full time all season long) or Gormley or someone like that on the roster. I mean, just think of if Auvitu didn't make the team out of camp to begin with. We would have had one of those guys on the roster for the better part of the year, even with Lovejoy and Quincey both here.

I know Santini made the roster initially, but he never even played until he was called up a week ago. He was a healthy scratch for like 7 straight games. I don't think he would have played to start the season anyway, so I don't think Quincey or Lovejoy prevented him from making the team or getting in game action early on.

So because of that, I don't regret the Lovejoy signing. One of Lovejoy or Moore needs to be gone next year though.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

Bennett - D
Kalinin - F
Josefson - F
DSP - D
Cammalleri - C
Henrique - C
Palmieri - D
Hall - B
Lappin - C
Wood - B
Fiddler - D
PAP - C
Zacha - F
Zajac - B
Gazdic - F
Boucher - F

Lovejoy - C
Greene - C
Severson - B
Merrill - C
Quincey - D
Moore - D
Auvitu - C


Kinkaid - C
Schneider - D

Hynes F
Ward F
Nasreddine F
Terreri D
Clowe NR - I don't know what he does. Is he the PK coach?

Shero D

 

[Devils090]

F for every single person affialited with this team

 

[RememberTheName]

Hall- A-: He plays head and shoulders above every other player, but he is sort of hot and cold
Zajac- A-: Probably our best forward this season, and no doubt best defensively. I would have him rated higher if it weren't for his goal drought
Palmieri- C: This guy has been so disappointing this season. Can't seem to do anything right this season, but still somehow putting up points
Cammy- C: WAY too inconsistent. He is awful when he is cold, and hasnt overall been doing that great.
Rico: B-: I feel like he is getting a little too much hate. It has looked like he is starting to come around again this season, but as always, very inconsistent
PAP: A-: Highest scoring player atm, but tends to make stupid plays
Zacha: B+: Started off the season slow, but now starting to come around. Been a victim of being bounced around the lineup
Wood: A: Probably one of the only reasons that people are still watching this team. He has his flaws, but this guy is going to be a good one
Lappin: C+: He looks like a rookie, not playing great lately, but started off well
Fiddler: C: Love his gifs, but a 4th liner playing like a 4th liner
JJ, Gazdic, Kalinin, DSP: F: Pretty obvious

Greene: B: Still playing solid, but is declining rapidly
Severson: B: Offensively he is great, but needs a lot of work on his defense
Santini: A: Small sample size, but loving what I am seeing
Lovejoy: C: Has been pretty disappointing, but still able to play decent defensively
OV2: B: Been playing solid this season, but needs work defensively
Moore, Quincey, Helgeson: F: Enough said

Schneider: B: Started off awful, but playing behind the worst defense in the league and starting to come around now.
Kinkaid: B+: Doing all you need a backup to do, and more

Coaching staff: F
Shero: C