GDT: Memorial Cup: Seattle Thunderbirds vs Peterborough Petes (Brennan Othmann)

[2014nyr]

Crnkovic is 21 and 5'7", what is the appeal?

i don't care at all about size...if you have speed and iq, you can play in this nhl. speed and quickness is the appeal here. i have no idea if he's a legit nhl prospect, but the rangers need a yanni gourde, lomberghini, tanev, gallagher, ott, hagelin etc...they need some high paced, quick burners that play with a chip on their shoulder. ideally sykora fits this mold one day, same w/ berard or trivigno, but i'd look to keep a fair amount of depth in players like that. for one it just gives you a better chance at landing the best of them, maybe one really exceeds....but they're also fantastic injury depth. they're versatile, fast, and work hard...thats what you want if you have a couple important guys out.

they could really really use an elite skater/puck carrier like keller/eichel/hughes/point/barzal/gaudreau etc but that's almost impossible to get, when you'd want them at least. we're unlikely to get anywhere near high enough to have any real shot in the near future and our general draft stategy leaves approximately 0.00% chance of unearthing a kucherov/gaudreau later in the draft.

i'd also like an adam lowry but those don't grow on trees either.

 

[n8]

Is there a round robin in the memorial cup or is it just a quick single elim tourney?

 

[RangersFan1994]

i don't care at all about size...if you have speed and iq, you can play in this nhl. speed and quickness is the appeal here. i have no idea if he's a legit nhl prospect, but the rangers need a yanni gourde, lomberghini, tanev, gallagher, ott, hagelin etc...they need some high paced, quick burners that play with a chip on their shoulder. ideally sykora fits this mold one day, same w/ berard or trivigno, but i'd look to keep a fair amount of depth in players like that. for one it just gives you a better chance at landing the best of them, maybe one really exceeds....but they're also fantastic injury depth. they're versatile, fast, and work hard...thats what you want if you have a couple important guys out.

they could really really use an elite skater/puck carrier like keller/eichel/hughes/point/barzal/gaudreau etc but that's almost impossible to get, when you'd want them at least. we're unlikely to get anywhere near high enough to have any real shot in the near future and our general draft stategy leaves approximately 0.00% chance of unearthing a kucherov/gaudreau later in the draft.

i'd also like an adam lowry but those don't grow on trees either.

All the types of players you mentioned are ones you draft. I wanted Dubois when he was on the Jackets. I also don't mind Rasmussen from the Wings.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Maybe Drury will draft Gracyn Sawchyn?

Maybe Drury will draft Gracyn Sawchyn?

He's one of my favorite prospects. I hope he's available at 23. I'd trade up to draft him. I bet he's gone by 15.

 

[GAGLine]

Is there a round robin in the memorial cup or is it just a quick single elim tourney?

It's a round-robin. Everyone plays each other, then the 2nd and 3rd place teams play for the right to play the 1st place team in the championship game.

The tie-breaker rules are pretty complex though, and there can be an additional play-in game if the 3rd and 4th place teams are tied.

Tie-Breaking Information – Memorial Cup

chlmemorialcup.ca

 

[NYRFANMANI]

i don't care at all about size...if you have speed and iq, you can play in this nhl. speed and quickness is the appeal here.

yeah, you should. Looking at the shortest players in the NHL, you need to be an elite SNP or PLY and have superior skating.

As you said, it doesn't grow on trees but the 2023 draft should leave us with options at around 23. I'll dive some more into it and try to find that elite skating puck carrier, that is hopefully more dimensional than Bread.

 

[eco's bones]

awful goal to give up by Simpson

Habs got good ones in Owen Beck and Jared Gustafson

You're mixing up Jared Davidson with Jordan Gustafson which created some confusion for me.

In any case I think Beck is a good prospect but a lot remains to be seen still. He has another year anyway of junior eligibility. He ain't ready to make the jump to the NHL IMO and is ineligible for the AHL next year. Lots of players put up big numbers in the CHL but when they hit the AHL they're duds. The jump from juniors to pro is significant. I expect Othmann will do well but even that is not a given.

 

[eco's bones]

i don't care at all about size...if you have speed and iq, you can play in this nhl. speed and quickness is the appeal here. i have no idea if he's a legit nhl prospect, but the rangers need a yanni gourde, lomberghini, tanev, gallagher, ott, hagelin etc...they need some high paced, quick burners that play with a chip on their shoulder. ideally sykora fits this mold one day, same w/ berard or trivigno, but i'd look to keep a fair amount of depth in players like that. for one it just gives you a better chance at landing the best of them, maybe one really exceeds....but they're also fantastic injury depth. they're versatile, fast, and work hard...thats what you want if you have a couple important guys out.

they could really really use an elite skater/puck carrier like keller/eichel/hughes/point/barzal/gaudreau etc but that's almost impossible to get, when you'd want them at least. we're unlikely to get anywhere near high enough to have any real shot in the near future and our general draft stategy leaves approximately 0.00% chance of unearthing a kucherov/gaudreau later in the draft.

i'd also like an adam lowry but those don't grow on trees either.

I can agree that it takes a variety of types to make a good team. That said this list of yours is all over the map--as in some are smallish agitators and Tanev is a huge mf'er--Ott was a gritty stocky guy who was as much fighter as agitator. But also it's not just the Rangers it's all 32 teams that there are going to be some hits with the choices they make but there are almost always going to be more misses. When talking about 17/18 year olds some are going to take more steps forward than others and Kravtsov is an example of a guy who is ahead of his class on talent but wasn't interested in working very hard to get any better. As far as I know no team has a crystal ball to tell which guys are going to get it and which aren't.

I do by the way care about size. It's true there are 5'7 guys like Zucc and DeBrincat and Spurgeon but they are exceptions. They are not the rule. For every one of them you have a handful of okay NHL'ers but a greater % of tiny guys fail than average or larger size players. It's just how it is....when you draft 5'10/5'11 and up the %'s of that player succeeding are just better.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I can agree that it takes a variety of types to make a good team. That said this list of yours is all over the map--as in some are smallish agitators and Tanev is a huge mf'er--Ott was a gritty stocky guy who was as much fighter as agitator. But also it's not just the Rangers it's all 32 teams that there are going to be some hits with the choices they make but there are almost always going to be more misses. When talking about 17/18 year olds some are going to take more steps forward than others and Kravtsov is an example of a guy who is ahead of his class on talent but wasn't interested in working very hard to get any better. As far as I know no team has a crystal ball to tell which guys are going to get it and which aren't.

I do by the way care about size. It's true there are 5'7 guys like Zucc and DeBrincat and Spurgeon but they are exceptions. They are not the rule. For every one of them you have a handful of okay NHL'ers but a greater % of tiny guys fail than average or larger size players. It's just how it is....when you draft 5'10/5'11 and up the %'s of that player succeeding are just better.

Jessiman McIlrath has size but just because of their size, they are not better than the 5'7 player that can skate. Julien Gauthier has size and speed and nothing else, that doesn't make him better than Vesey Goodrow and Tyler Motte

 

[MrAlmost]

I think Crnkovic would be a really good signing. Seemed to change his game once getting to the Thunderbirds and having to play a more support role which is good. Means he is adaptable. Only trouble is he is LW. But really that shouldn't matter. If you have a shot at a good player, take it. Who cares?

 

[cwede]

Is there a round robin in the memorial cup or is it just a quick single elim tourney?

It's a round-robin. Everyone plays each other, then the 2nd and 3rd place teams play for the right to play the 1st place team in the championship game.

The tie-breaker rules are pretty complex though, and there can be an additional play-in game if the 3rd and 4th place teams are tied.

It's such a quick round robin, there are only 4 possible standings after RR
It seems these are the scenarios

3-0 | 2-1 | 1-2 | 0-3
No tiebreak, no play-in

3-0 | 1-2 | 1-2 | 1-2
3-way tiebreak for bye into Semi game, play-in for other 2

2-1 | 2-1 | 2-1 | 0-3
3-way tiebreak for bye to Final, no play-in

2-1 | 2-1 | 1-2 | 1-2
H2H winner gets Bye to Final, Play-in for Semi spot

 

[GAGLine]

It's such a quick round robin, there are only 4 possible standings after RR
It seems these are the scenarios

3-0 | 2-1 | 1-2 | 0-3
No tiebreak, no play-in

3-0 | 1-2 | 1-2 | 1-2
3-way tiebreak for bye into Semi game, play-in for other 2

2-1 | 2-1 | 2-1 | 0-3
3-way tiebreak for bye to Final, no play-in

2-1 | 2-1 | 1-2 | 1-2
H2H winner gets Bye to Final, Play-in for Semi spot

Gotta beat Kamloops tonight and then hope Seattle beats them as well or the Petes beat Quebec. A win tonight guarantees at least a play-in game. If Seattle then beats Kamloops or the Petes beat Quebec, the Petes will avoid the play-in and go right to the semi-final.

 

[eco's bones]

Jessiman McIlrath has size but just because of their size, they are not better than the 5'7 player that can skate. Julien Gauthier has size and speed and nothing else, that doesn't make him better than Vesey Goodrow and Tyler Motte

A couple problems with your argument. In both cases the Rangers reached when they could have taken better players. I think most people at the time when McIlrath was drafted saw Cam Fowler falling and would have taken him. Fowler is not as big as McIlrath but he isn't exactly small either. In Jessiman's case the big miss there was Ryan Getzlaf who was a big and strong center.

The other side of the story is both McIlrath and Jessiman were hit with devastating injuries shortly after they were drafted. Particularly in McIlrath's case he probably would have turned into a somewhat better player if he hadn't had his kneecap displaced which happened right as he was going from the CHL to pros. He talked about it later on and said it took 2 1/2-3 years to get over that.

 

[2014nyr]

All the types of players you mentioned are ones you draft. I wanted Dubois when he was on the Jackets. I also don't mind Rasmussen from the Wings.

ideally yea, but they can be found in other channels. esp the bottom 6 types

 

[2014nyr]

I can agree that it takes a variety of types to make a good team. That said this list of yours is all over the map--as in some are smallish agitators and Tanev is a huge mf'er--Ott was a gritty stocky guy who was as much fighter as agitator. But also it's not just the Rangers it's all 32 teams that there are going to be some hits with the choices they make but there are almost always going to be more misses. When talking about 17/18 year olds some are going to take more steps forward than others and Kravtsov is an example of a guy who is ahead of his class on talent but wasn't interested in working very hard to get any better. As far as I know no team has a crystal ball to tell which guys are going to get it and which aren't.

I do by the way care about size. It's true there are 5'7 guys like Zucc and DeBrincat and Spurgeon but they are exceptions. They are not the rule. For every one of them you have a handful of okay NHL'ers but a greater % of tiny guys fail than average or larger size players. It's just how it is....when you draft 5'10/5'11 and up the %'s of that player succeeding are just better.

right, the list is meant to be a bit all over the map. it's a need to inject some pace players, so there's multiple rolls they can fill. and as you said, players can take a lot of routes from draft day, some guys fall down the lineup as they go up the ladder and need to have things in their game to maintain value anywhere. they tend to be on the smaller side to have that quickness i'm looking for. the numbers are what they are re size, but you help you chances a lot when you adjust for skating ability / pace they play at. i'm not saying make your entire roster around them, i'm saying we have a dearth and need to stockpile some assets in that mold.

 

[nyr2k2]

I don't think anyone is arguing that big = good and small = bad. I was the one who brought up size with respect to Crnkovic and that definitely wasn't my point.

For me I have no issue picking up small guys. The thing with the small guys is that the margin for error is so thin, since you're always disadvantaged physically. You have to be a really good skater and also think the game at a really high level. If you can't process the game at a borderline elite level and you're 5'7", you're not going to be effective because even if you can skate like the wind, if you're even a split second behind the play the physicality is going to catch up to you. A bigger player who is maybe less skilled or not as good of a skater, might be able to get by just by being larger and more physical. We know there's still spots in the NHL for big guys who don't do much but clog the ice.

I'd like to be targeting skilled guys, but perhaps more than that, guys that play with a lot of energy. Brett Berard is one of those guys--although given his size, like I mentioned earlier, there's going to be doubt until he proves he can play fast enough at the NHL level to mitigate the size issue (this is true for all players but the small guys have it worse).

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Tonight's game featuring Othmann will be on the NHL Network at 6 for anyone interested. I'll be watching!