Confirmed with Link: Melnyk talks about new coach, new arena, etc

[Busboy]

What posters say and do not say in their posts is not semantics. It is actually easy to figure out what a poster says.

Step 1: actually read the post.
Step 2: debate the points in that post.
Step 3: hmm, that appears to actually be it.

To address your other point, all arenas need renovations. Paying for upkeep is a part of owning something, whether that something is a car, a house, or on a larger scale an arena. The amount the team is currently spending on arena upgrades and maintenance is not out of line. Google stories about how the Jets have a long term plan to spend millions per season, which they account for in projected operating expenses, until the end of this decade if you want an illustration of how this works.

Thanks, step 1 done on my end. Now it's your turn.

 

[StefanW]

I'm not sure why we're putting so much stock in a sell job

We all know arenas generally last 30-35 years

Melnyk softening up the ground on the radio in regards to a arena in Lebreton shouldn't be such a contentious issue I think

It only is if you start with assumption that the current arena must be done, and that the sell job is more than just softening the ground.

I 100% agree with you, this is exactly what is happening. That is why it is important to realistically assess whether the city needs a new arena rather than taking anyone's word for it.

An independent assessment on the structural integrity of the CTC would be the type of evidence I would need to fully make up my mind.

 

[StefanW]

Thanks, step 1 done on my end. Now it's your turn.

You missed step two.

 

[BonkTastic]

I could, but I'm not the one trying to sell a narrative on here. Only asking for claims to be substantiated and given context.

You're claiming Melnyk is an "effing liar," yet you won't even provide the quote that shows he is lying? That's cool.

1) I said "frigging", not "effing"

2) if you are seriously not willing to listen to an interview, in a thread SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THAT INTERVIEW, to get a quote from that interview, then I'm sure as hell not going to hold your leash and walk you through it. If you can't be bothered to put in even he most basic of efforts to participate in a thread about a particular topic, then I feel no obligation to continue the debate with you.

 

[Micklebot]

I could, but I'm not the one trying to sell a narrative on here. Only asking for claims to be substantiated and given context.

You're claiming Melnyk is an "effing liar," yet you won't even provide the quote that shows he is lying? That's cool.

I think this article may be from the same interview, someone can correct me if I'm wrong:

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hoc...tential-move-to-lebreton-flats-a-game-changer

Senators owner Eugene Melnyk says it is too early to discuss details of a possible move to a new arena in the LeBreton Flats.

But he sounds like a man ready to take his best shot.

“This building wasn’t built to last 35, 40 years,” Melnyk said Monday from the Canadian Tire Centre, where he held his annual skate for children.

Despite the money the Senators organization has spent recently to upgrade the current arena, built in 1996, “you have to build a new one eventually, I hope in my lifetime,” Melnyk said.

“It’s where do you put it from here? We’ve had tremendous support (for a LeBreton pitch), but you’re always going to have naysayers.”

Melnyk noted the Request for Qualification (RFQ) proposal is due on Jan. 7, but that he would likely file it before Christmas, so that staff aren’t working on it over the holidays.

“The project itself is very premature to even talk about it,” Melnyk said. “We haven’t even decided if we should do it.”

And yet he added he hopes he and his staff come to the “right decision” on a proposal very soon.

“If we’re going to do it, we want to do it right, we want to be organized,” Melnyk said. “We want to make sure this has been very carefully thought through. This impacts the city in a huge way, it impacts the organization in a huge way, we just need to clearly understand what we’re getting ourselves into because it is a long-term project and it’s really a game-changer for us.

“The main thing is we want to do what’s right for the city, for the fans and the organization long term.”

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I finally got around to listening to the interview. It really did not change my perception in terms of the proposal for a new arena. In my opinion, as a taxpayer I do not want to see my tax dollars poured into a new building if the current one is still fine.

The location in Kanata is less than ideal unless you live that area, so I can see why the team would want to relocate, and why a lot of fans would want an arena that is more central. IMO, the land should be made available to the team if they pay for building a new arena without taxpayer dollars.

If the current arena is fine then a new one is a luxury item and, quite frankly, I can come up with 100 places where I would rather see the three levels of government spending my tax dollars.

The City/Watson said they wouldn't pay

Ontario is FUBAR financially and will be for a while

The Feds, no matter who is in power, will try to use any "surplus" on the "middle class"

I don't expect much public money to go into this project honestly

 

[Busboy]

I think the problem is reading way far into a single line quote. It's very possible that he meant the stadium wasn't built to last 30 years + without millions in upgrades.

But at this point, Melnyk could fly to Africa, end hunger on the continent, fly back to Canada and **** out a rainbow that drops gold from the sky and you'd spin it into a budget issue and make him into a villain.

Give it a rest.

That is now two people who misquote Bonk and spin it into a budget comment.

Do the Melnyk flunkies simply interpret any and all criticism as "budget talk" and stop reading? It is not as though it was a long post, so that is the only thing that comes to mind when I try to figure out why some people seem to have had such a hard time actually reading it.

Again, the comment was about the lifespan of the CTC. The building was supposedly good enough to last for a couple more decades, but now that some land is available the building is all of a sudden at the end of its lifespan. That seems like two stories to me.

You missed step two.

I'm not seeing where you addressed my concerns over the claim? Instead you decided to call me a Melnyk Flunkie. You even went on to say "all of a sudden at the end of it's lifespan." But you never addressed the fact that I'm asking how we got to that conclusion form a single sentence.

 

[Busboy]

1) I said "frigging", not "effing"

2) if you are seriously not willing to listen to an interview, in a thread SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THAT INTERVIEW, to get a quote from that interview, then I'm sure as hell not going to hold your leash and walk you through it. If you can't be bothered to put in even he most basic of efforts to participate in a thread about a particular topic, then I feel no obligation to continue the debate with you.

Why are you so angry? You made a claim, I want to see something to backup that claim. I'm sorry I can't spend 30 minutes listening to an interview in the middle of my workday. I could listen to it at the end of the day but it seems like it would be easier to discuss this if you just offered something to substantiate your claim.

EDIT: I really don't think it's unreasonable to ask for claims to substantiated. Sorry if I've offended anyone. Let's just move on I guess and draw our own conclusions.

 

[SelleckStache]

No magic pills. Not in this market

That's a horrible headline...

 

[BonkTastic]

... if you just offered something to substantiate your claim.

Which claim do you want me to substantiate? The recent "arena wasn't built to last" quote by Melnyk that has been quoted at least 3 times in this thread already, that is linked to, which I already referenced in my original summary of the interview on the first page of the thread? Or the thing that I was verbally told 3-5 years ago, in person, which has no paper trail because they were words produced by a human being vocally, and were not transcribed in any way?

Let me know.

 

[Busboy]

Which claim do you want me to substantiate? The recent "arena wasn't built to last" quote by Melnyk that has been quoted at least 3 times in this thread already, which I already referenced in my original summary of the interview on the first page of the thread? Or the thing that I was verbally told 3-5 years ago, in person, which has no paper trail because they were words produced by a human being vocally, and were not transcribed in any way?

Let me know.

Yes, please give me the quote so I can see if Melnyk was saying the building won't last, or if he;s saying it won;t last without costly upgrades. That is what i wanted to know and I dont see why it has turned into such drama and anger.

Summary from first page:

ON ARENA
- you have to build a new one eventually. Where are you going to put it?
- Always will have nay-sayers
- want to do right for the city in the long term - looking 20 years from now

 

[jbeck5]

I finally got around to listening to the interview. It really did not change my perception in terms of the proposal for a new arena. In my opinion, as a taxpayer I do not want to see my tax dollars poured into a new building if the current one is still fine.

The location in Kanata is less than ideal unless you live that area, so I can see why the team would want to relocate, and why a lot of fans would want an arena that is more central. IMO, the land should be made available to the team if they pay for building a new arena without taxpayer dollars.

If the current arena is fine then a new one is a luxury item and, quite frankly, I can come up with 100 places where I would rather see the three levels of government spending my tax dollars.

You do realize the city would make more in tax revenue over the first decade than they spent?

Tax arguments are silly as in the grand scheme of things, the city makes money on a project, not lose money.

 

[WilderPegasus*]

We all know arenas generally last 30-35 years

No. There are some posters who mistakenly think, not know, this bizarre notion.

 

[WilderPegasus*]

You do realize the city would make more in tax revenue over the first decade than they spent?

Tax arguments are silly as in the grand scheme of things, the city makes money on a project, not lose money.

You are rather ignorant about how the city makes money through taxes.

 

[BonkTastic]

Yes, please give me the quote so I can see if Melnyk was saying the building won't last, or if he;s saying it won;t last without costly upgrades.

Here's a text link to quotes from the video that has been linked here, because you're obviously not busy enough to participate on a message board about a topic during a work day, and yet far too busy to take 4 minutes to watch the video that was linked to multiple times throughout the thread about the interview that the entire thread is about in the first place, that has been quoted multiple times.

Senators owner Eugene Melnyk says it is too early to discuss details of a possible move to a new arena in the LeBreton Flats.

But he sounds like a man ready to take his best shot.

“This building wasn’t built to last 35, 40 years,†Melnyk said Monday from the Canadian Tire Centre, where he held his annual skate for children.

Despite the money the Senators organization has spent recently to upgrade the current arena, built in 1996, “you have to build a new one eventually, I hope in my lifetime,†Melnyk said.

You were attacking me about an opinion I have on a quote you couldn't even be bothered to listen to or read (after first attacking me on about something I didn't even say in the first place, no less!), despite the fact that it has been linked to and quoted here already multiple times, and then demanded that I provide the quote to you, despite the fact that you had already attacked my opinion on the matter without even bothering to have even taken 2 minutes beforehand to figure out what I was even talking about.

Yeah. I'm salty about that.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

No. There are some posters who mistakenly think, not know, this bizarre notion.

Please let us bask in the light of your wisdom then

 

[Busboy]

Here's a text link to quotes from the video that has been linked here, because you're obviously not busy enough to participate on a message board about a topic during a work day, and yet far too busy to take 4 minutes to watch the video that was linked to multiple times throughout the thread about the interview that the entire thread is about in the first place, that has been quoted multiple times.

Thank you, I actually just had the chance to watch the video. Have a nice day. I thought it was a press conference and didn't realize how short it was.

 

[Busboy]

Here's a text link to quotes from the video that has been linked here, because you're obviously not busy enough to participate on a message board about a topic during a work day, and yet far too busy to take 4 minutes to watch the video that was linked to multiple times throughout the thread about the interview that the entire thread is about in the first place, that has been quoted multiple times.



You were attacking me about an opinion I have on a quote you couldn't even be bothered to listen to or read (after first attacking me on about something I didn't even say in the first place, no less!), despite the fact that it has been linked to and quoted here already multiple times, and then demanded that I provide the quote to you, despite the fact that you had already attacked my opinion on the matter without even bothering to have even taken 2 minutes beforehand to figure out what I was even talking about.

Yeah. I'm salty about that.

Sorry about that. Confusion over what I was asking, definitely partly my fault. You can relax, it's not a big deal. Personally I don't think there's enough to go on to be calling him a liar, but that's my opinion.

My initial issue was taking a single sentence (5 words) and turning it into a narrative. That's not how I like to do things but we all have the right to our own opinions.

 

[ATdaisuki]

Yes, please give me the quote so I can see if Melnyk was saying the building won't last, or if he;s saying it won;t last without costly upgrades. That is what i wanted to know and I dont see why it has turned into such drama and anger.

Summary from first page:

ON ARENA
- you have to build a new one eventually. Where are you going to put it?
- Always will have nay-sayers
- want to do right for the city in the long term - looking 20 years from now

okay, let me lay it down for everyone again.

bonk's post:

That is unequivocally horse ****.

When I worked for the team, we'd always hear Cy (Leeder) talking about future upgrades to the arena, because "we're so lucky to have a building that was built right", and "we feel comfortable investing in the building because we can reap the benefits for the next 25+ years". I can't even begin to get into all the arena upgrades the team had in line until money issues sidelined them.

Now that a new arena site may be available, Melnyk's tune CONVENIENTLY changes? Eff that. I want a new arena as much as he next guy, but be honest about the process. Lying about this stuff is the kind of thing that will sour NCC & the city on working with you on a new arena deal, you frigging pathalogical liar.

bonk quotes a post that states that melnyk says the arena wasn't built to last 30 years. the actual quote is 30-40 years.

bonk then states that when he worked for the team (within the last 5 years), cyril leeder, president of the senators, would say that the building was great and should last another 25 + years. let's say we take the worst case scenario and say the last time bonk heard cyril said that was five years ago. that's 2009. the building opened in 1996. the bare minimum cyril said the building should last, 25 years, would take us to the year 2034 from 2009, 38 years after the building opened. that's taking the worst case scenarios from what bonk said.

what bonk is saying is that either what melnyk is saying now in regards to the building's lifespan is untrue, or what he was told as an employee was untrue. that's it, that's all he said. now let's take your post that was in response to bonk's post.

I think the problem is reading way far into a single line quote. It's very possible that he meant the stadium wasn't built to last 30 years + without millions in upgrades.

okay, that's reasonable. cyril said that the team was fortunate to have such a greaet building and that it should last 25 years, but it's not like bonk was way up in the organization, so it's not like they'd disclose the full details. it's possible he meant it'll last that long with major renovations.

But at this point, Melnyk could fly to Africa, end hunger on the continent, fly back to Canada and **** out a rainbow that drops gold from the sky and you'd spin it into a budget issue and make him into a villain.

Give it a rest.[/QUOTE]

okay, here's where the post gets questionable. i bolded the word "you'd" to point out what may be causing the issue.

it sounds like you're directing this at bonk and his post. bonk made no reference to the budget in his post. if this was directed at bonk, then lol. it comes out of nowhere and really makes no sense. you even end it with give it a rest. you're arguing nothing with bonk and seems like you're pushing this attack in his face. really rude.

it's possible that you didn't mean to direct the second part of this post at him, but you certainly make it sound that way by using "you'd" here. that's what's causing the argument. if you'd just clarify whether or not you were directing the entire post at bonk, i can decide whether or not i get to jump on bonk's side, or everything is cleared up.

 

[Busboy]

okay, let me lay it down for everyone again.

bonk's post:




bonk quotes a post that states that melnyk says the arena wasn't built to last 30 years. the actual quote is 30-40 years.

bonk then states that when he worked for the team (within the last 5 years), cyril leeder, president of the senators, would say that the building was great and should last another 25 + years. let's say we take the worst case scenario and say the last time bonk heard cyril said that was five years ago. that's 2009. the building opened in 1996. the bare minimum cyril said the building should last, 25 years, would take us to the year 2034 from 2009, 38 years after the building opened. that's taking the worst case scenarios from what bonk said.

what bonk is saying is that either what melnyk is saying now in regards to the building's lifespan is untrue, or what he was told as an employee was untrue. that's it, that's all he said. now let's take your post that was in response to bonk's post.



okay, that's reasonable. cyril said that the team was fortunate to have such a greaet building and that it should last 25 years, but it's not like bonk was way up in the organization, so it's not like they'd disclose the full details. it's possible he meant it'll last that long with major renovations.

But at this point, Melnyk could fly to Africa, end hunger on the continent, fly back to Canada and **** out a rainbow that drops gold from the sky and you'd spin it into a budget issue and make him into a villain.

Give it a rest.

okay, here's where the post gets questionable. i bolded the word "you'd" to point out what may be causing the issue.

it sounds like you're directing this at bonk and his post. bonk made no reference to the budget in his post. if this was directed at bonk, then lol. it comes out of nowhere and really makes no sense. you even end it with give it a rest. you're arguing nothing with bonk and seems like you're pushing this attack in his face. really rude.

it's possible that you didn't mean to direct the second part of this post at him, but you certainly make it sound that way by using "you'd" here. that's what's causing the argument. if you'd just clarify whether or not you were directing the entire post at bonk, i can decide whether or not i get to jump on bonk's side, or everything is cleared up.

Nah, I definitely directed it to Bonk. It was pretty harsh and poorly worded but it comes from just being tired of the constant negativity over every single thing the Sens do and it being related back to Melnyk and his financial situation. Mostly it's a joke over the fact that Bonk keeps pushing the same narrative over and over and tries to fit everything the Sens do into that narrative.

All I wanted to know is some context that would support Bonk's narrative of Melnyk being a manipulative liar in this case. After watching the video, I don;t think it's fair to call Melnyk a liar or to attack him for saying the building wasn't built to last for 30-40 years. I think Bonk believes this because he's unable to be objective when it comes to Melnyk at this point and I've seen how quickly certain narratives can get spun into fact on these boards.

Really, this all comes from not wanting a single quote turn into a bigger narrative about how Melnyk is lying to the city and the fans again when what he said seemed totally reasonable. So I asked for the actual quote instead of it being paraphrased because I'm unable to trust someone with an agenda and an inability to be objective.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Nah, I definitely directed it to Bonk. It was pretty harsh and poorly worded but it comes from just being tired of the constant negativity over every single thing the Sens do and it being related back to Melnyk and his financial situation. Mostly it's a joke over the fact that Bonk keeps pushing the same narrative over and over and tries to fit everything the Sens do into that narrative.

All I wanted to know is some context that would support Bonk's narrative of Melnyk being a manipulative liar in this case. After watching the video, I don;t think it's fair to call Melnyk a liar or to attack him for saying the building wasn't built to last for 30-40 years. I think Bonk believes this because he's unable to be objective when it comes to Melnyk at this point and I've seen how quickly certain narratives can get spun into fact on these boards.

Really, this all comes from not wanting a single quote turn into a bigger narrative about how Melnyk is lying to the city and the fans again when what he said seemed totally reasonable. So I asked for the actual quote instead of it being paraphrased because I'm unable to trust someone with an agenda and an inability to be objective.

So again, at NO point did Bonk actually make reference to the budget or some "narrative" that you keep repeating about in this entire, inane, paragraph that you've just written.

The only thing you've managed to do through this entire thread is actually reveal yourself to be the biggest Melynk apologist on the board. You've decided to paint him out as some saintly man who could never tell a lie, let alone one that would be financially lucrative to him such as wanting a brand new arena downtown while painting him as some sort of martyr because some of us have questioned the direction of the spending on this team.

Your agenda is just as visible as Bonk's is apparently.

 

[Tuna99]

Melnyk has blasted so much sunshine up our azzes the last couple of seasons that Leafs fans are actually thinking of taking their Christmas vacation up there

This guy could stand on the collapsing dykes of New Orleans and tell everyone that there is nothing to worry about - he reminds me of that Iraqi General who gave a press conference in Baghdad in front of US tanks saying there were no U.S. troops in Iraq.

The young superstars quote he gave - if he sees Chiasson and Hoffman as superstars I wonder what he thinks of Greening and Gryba? The bizarre nature of the organization starts to make sense.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I saw "melnyk talks" and decided to avoid this thread.. but then I decided to come in to see how many times the word "agenda" or "narrative" were mentioned.. I stopped counting after 10 quintillion.

 

[TeamRenzo]

You should probably take a few minutes to read my post. I literally said nothing about the cap/budget. I made absolutely zero references to players, or free agency, or any of that. Not even an iota of time was spent talking about hockey ops in any capacity whatsoever.

Seriously. Not a single thing. I was talking entirely about his quote on the life expectancy of the current arena, from a structural standpoint.

Never said you did mention anything about budget. My first comment related to your post...that's it. The next statement was relevant to the thread not your post. Calling Melnyk a pathological liar is probably a little over board.

 

[TeamRenzo]

Sometimes I feel that is no pleasing some fans. People have complained about the location of the Palladium/Corel Center/Scotiabank/CTC since it was built. Now, they may be an opportunity to have the arena in a more desired (for some fans) location and people are picking it apart.

Live and let live!