Meet a New Canuck: Philip Larsen

[LastWordArmy]

The first in our meet the new Canucks series

http://lastwordonhockey.com/2016/09/26/meet-new-canuck-philip-larsen/

Click to read more...

 

[M2Beezy]

Very positive article so hopefully it can happen along with all the other needed positive possibilities to make this a wild card fighting team

 

[thepuckmonster]

As long as he's better than Weber or Barts I'm fine with whatever happens.

 

[Hit the post]

As long as he's better than Weber or Barts I'm fine with whatever happens.

Weber would've been fine had he *only* been used as a #7.

Bart was a worthy gamble (low risk given his contract & it didn't cost us anything to acquire him) - it just didn't work out.

 

[Siludin]

I read somewhere that Larsen left Edmonton because he thought they were bad, and not due to lack of opportunity. Is there any truth to this? Larsen hardly chose Edmonton (he was part of a summer trade for Horcoff).

 

[M2Beezy]

I read somewhere that Larsen left Edmonton because he thought they were bad, and not due to lack of opportunity. Is there any truth to this? Larsen hardly chose Edmonton (he was part of a summer trade for Horcoff).

Just a rumour its not true

 

[biturbo19]

Weber would've been fine had he *only* been used as a #7.

Bart was a worthy gamble (low risk given his contract & it didn't cost us anything to acquire him) - it just didn't work out.

And if Larsen can be better than Weber or Bartkowski...that would probably make for at least a decent #5/6 with offensive and PP ability. Which would be...pretty much what we need Larsen to be.

More than that would be just gravy.

I read somewhere that Larsen left Edmonton because he thought they were bad, and not due to lack of opportunity. Is there any truth to this? Larsen hardly chose Edmonton (he was part of a summer trade for Horcoff).

My understanding is that it was kind of a bit of both. He left of his own accord because the whole Edmonton thing wasn't going well, they weren't developing him in a constructive way and he obviously felt better served playing and developing elsewhere. Didn't want anything to do with the Edmonton organization and their ineptitude in developing defencemen and providing good opportunities to succeed.

The Oilers were absolutely trash at developing and identifying defensive talent right through the timeframe Larsen was there. Yet, they always seemed to have a constant stream of new/different guys running through. Kind of a frantic headless chicken scrambling around approach to trying to fix their perennially terrible defence. Which was really most of the problem. No patience and no direction. But with an overly crowded depth chart they were always trying to run through and audition - often with tons of these guys auditioning at the same time, all together - a disaster where it was pretty much impossible for any of them to look good.


So, basically...Larsen left because the Oilers being terrible and spastic at developing defencemen didn't provide any kind of good opportunity for young defencemen to develop and establish themselves.

We'll see how it's all worked out for him choosing that alternative development path.

 

[DadBod]

just a rumour its not true

http://oilersnation.com/2016/2/24/the-oilers-trade-philip-larsen-whaaaaa

"Another ringing endorsement for how the Edmonton Oilers have been run over the years. Not that we should be surprised that the worst team in hockey has also had the worst management. Seeing that Philip Larsen wouldn't feel coming back to the Oilers just kind of fits, ya know? That being said, I also find it hilarious that a fringe NHLer would look a gift horse in the mouth, but what do I know. "

 

[me2]

And if Larsen can be better than Weber or Bartkowski...that would probably make for at least a decent #5/6 with offensive and PP ability. Which would be...pretty much what we need Larsen to be.

More than that would be just gravy.




My understanding is that it was kind of a bit of both. He left of his own accord because the whole Edmonton thing wasn't going well, they weren't developing him in a constructive way and he obviously felt better served playing and developing elsewhere. Didn't want anything to do with the Edmonton organization and their ineptitude in developing defencemen and providing good opportunities to succeed.

The Oilers were absolutely trash at developing and identifying defensive talent right through the timeframe Larsen was there. Yet, they always seemed to have a constant stream of new/different guys running through. Kind of a frantic headless chicken scrambling around approach to trying to fix their perennially terrible defence. Which was really most of the problem. No patience and no direction. But with an overly crowded depth chart they were always trying to run through and audition - often with tons of these guys auditioning at the same time, all together - a disaster where it was pretty much impossible for any of them to look good.


So, basically...Larsen left because the Oilers being terrible and spastic at developing defencemen didn't provide any kind of good opportunity for young defencemen to develop and establish themselves.

The problem was Larsen was as poor for them as they were disorganised. He was just another cog in a long line of dud dmen acquisitions they brought in, to the point they even gave and used him as a forward.


In the end though he was not good enough, a team that desperate for good dman don't let them go.
I don't blame Larsen for not going back, bridges were burned with Edmonton. Hopefully he's now a much better Dman, gained what he was missing.

 

[rune74]

The problem was Larsen was as poor for them as they were disorganised. He was just another cog in a long line of dud dmen acquisitions they brought in, to the point they even gave and used him as a forward.


In the end though he was not good enough, a team that desperate for good dman don't let them go.
I don't blame Larsen for not going back, bridges were burned with Edmonton. Hopefully he's now a much better Dman, gained what he was missing.

This isn't true. They used him at fwd because of injuries and they didn't want to call anyone up.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

I don't hold out much hope that Larsen will be an improvement over Bart/Weber, but hopefully he plays less.

 

[me2]

This isn't true. They used him at fwd because of injuries and they didn't want to call anyone up.

Yes they had injuries but he played about 10 games at forward, so it was a bit more than a one off, they were looking for something IMHO. His ability on the PP is likely why he was used as a forward, that way they could get him away from having to play as defenseman but still have one of their PP QBs. They just didn't like him that much as Dman, after all he was waived multiple times (sep 2013 and march 2014), probably a big part of why he soured on Edmonton was being waived. He cleared both times so no other team though he was good enough to be on their roster either.

 

[me2]

I don't hold out much hope that Larsen will be an improvement over Bart/Weber, but hopefully he plays less.

he should be a good for the PP IMHO. that's his thing. if he's evolved the rest of his game to minimise the liability at 5 on 5, he'll bring much more than Bart and maybe as much as weber on his better days.

 

[Tikhonov]

thanks for the article. was ready to post 'another quirky bit from HF!' but this actually makes sense

 

[biturbo19]

The problem was Larsen was as poor for them as they were disorganised. He was just another cog in a long line of dud dmen acquisitions they brought in, to the point they even gave and used him as a forward.


In the end though he was not good enough, a team that desperate for good dman don't let them go.
I don't blame Larsen for not going back, bridges were burned with Edmonton. Hopefully he's now a much better Dman, gained what he was missing.

There's no doubt that Larsen wasn't good enough at that point. But again...



It wasn't that the Oilers just didn't like the guy at all, or that he outright "wasn't good enough"...it was that he basically said, "you guys are idiots, i've got no chance of succeeding here...peace". And left. Because it was a crap situation.

The Oilers defence was a black hole that sucked anyone and everyone down into it for a long long time. They've let guys with talent and skillsets to work elsewhere go plenty often. Heck, Jeff Petry was pretty clearly their best defenceman at the time and he was let go/walked away like Larsen at the first real opportunity. Justin Schultz is probably the best, most recent comparable example...utterly useless and doomed in development in Edmonton, goes to Pittsburgh and in a proper role with adequate insulation, looked plenty serviceable.

That whole period of Oilers history, they were just randomly throwing crap at the wall to see what would stick. And nothing ever did, because it was just them running through a bunch of rookies and unproven kids with zero quality veteran insulation. When your "vet insulation" is like Petry/Ferrence/Grebeshkov/Nick Schultz...and the rest is just kids filtered through together in spurts and asked by a moron head coach like Eakins to "chop wood carry water"...nobody is going to look good.

Larsen was still .4 ppg in that gongshow somehow. In the NHL. Deficient defensively, especially in way over his head in the role he was placed in at the time. Absolutely. But still some promise offensively - in the sort of niche we most desperately need a player.

He wasn't a complete scrub either at the time. He was a good offensive defenceman prospect tracking pretty well up through the Stars organization. A young ~ppg AHL defenceman with tons of mobility. Just physically really underdeveloped, a bit defensively raw, and not really prepared for NHL physicality.


Larsen here is coming in after another 2 years of Pro development...and walking into a situation where he'll be asked to do less defensively behind two quality matchup RHD in Tanev and Gudbranson. There's insulation there. And offensively, there's an amazing opportunity crying out for a RH shooting point man who can make plays on the man advantage playing with the Sedins. If not just tied at the hip behind the Sedins 5v5 as well. He'll be slotted in to a role he should be suited for - a good "opportunity".


We'll have to see if he's got what it takes. But it's not like they're asking for a stud Top-4D here. They're hoping for him to be good at what he was already pretty good at, and serviceable as a bottom-pairing D (probably playing very offensively skewed minutes) outside of that.

The bar is pretty much set at "2014-15 Weber". Which is an extremely low bar. We're pretty much just looking for a Justin Schultz to PIT type recovery here from Larsen. Looking good in the role he's here for, staying insulated in the rest of it.

 

[me2]

There's no doubt that Larsen wasn't good enough at that point. But again...



It wasn't that the Oilers just didn't like the guy at all, or that he outright "wasn't good enough"...it was that he basically said, "you guys are idiots, i've got no chance of succeeding here...peace". And left. Because it was a crap situation.

I'm sure getting constantly waived and not one team thinking you are sorry picking up fed into it as much as Edmonton itself. He's likely to have packed up and left other teams to when he struggled to find a full time NHL role.

It was not just the oilers, 29 other GMs saw exactly the same things he cleared waivers - twice, despite all the points he was putting up. Not even Dallas wanted him back.

Sure some of that is Edmonton being a mess, but when a team desperately short on D starts waiving you there are big areas you need to improve.


As for the oilers qualifying him as Price they wanted him, it was a no brainer and proves nothing since it was a paperwork transaction not a real qualifying offer. Same thing as the canucks qualifying Rodin, it was a technical move to retain their rights not to sign them and play them. Larsen bolted to the khl in May. If they improve you hold their rights, if not it doesn't even cost a contract slot.

Larsen was still .4 ppg in that gongshow somehow. In the NHL. Deficient defensively, especially in way over his head in the role he was placed in at the time. Absolutely. But still some promise offensively - in the sort of niche we most desperately need a player.

He was poor defensively that is why Edmonton wasn't using him much and was waiving him a lot. You can't fault his PP work, as I said if he has grown defensively he will find an NHL role, even if it is as a sheltered PP specialist.

He wasn't a complete scrub either at the time. He was a good offensive defenceman prospect tracking pretty well up through the Stars organization. A young ~ppg AHL defenceman with tons of mobility. Just physically really underdeveloped, a bit defensively raw, and not really prepared for NHL physicality.

Dallas didn't want him back for free. As I said he cleared waivers twice and they knew him better than anyone except Edmonton.

The bar is pretty much set at "2014-15 Weber". Which is an extremely low bar. We're pretty much just looking for a Justin Schultz to PIT type recovery here from Larsen. Looking good in the role he's here for, staying insulated in the rest of it.

 

[The Stig]

The first in our meet the new Canucks series

http://lastwordonhockey.com/2016/09/26/meet-new-canuck-philip-larsen/

One of the better articles from a partner about a Canuck! Thanks for the read. Obviously I hope he pans out, but even if he looks like a #7/8 guy, depth on the farm is always a plus. Having a couple fringe NHL guys that we can call up and not worry about being lost out there is a good thing every org needs.

 

[biturbo19]

I'm sure getting constantly waived and not one team thinking you are sorry picking up fed into it as much as Edmonton itself. He's likely to have packed up and left other teams to when he struggled to find a full time NHL role.

It was not just the oilers, 29 other GMs saw exactly the same things he cleared waivers - twice, despite all the points he was putting up. Not even Dallas wanted him back.

Sure some of that is Edmonton being a mess, but when a team desperately short on D starts waiving you there are big areas you need to improve.


As for the oilers qualifying him as Price they wanted him, it was a no brainer and proves nothing since it was a paperwork transaction not a real qualifying offer. Same thing as the canucks qualifying Rodin, it was a technical move to retain their rights not to sign them and play them. Larsen bolted to the khl in May. If they improve you hold their rights, if not it doesn't even cost a contract slot.



He was poor defensively that is why Edmonton wasn't using him much and was waiving him a lot. You can't fault his PP work, as I said if he has grown defensively he will find an NHL role, even if it is as a sheltered PP specialist.




Dallas didn't want him back for free. As I said he cleared waivers twice and they knew him better than anyone except Edmonton.

Young players with some potential who aren't ready for the NHL clear waivers all the time. Especially when it's the Oilers putting them out there, and they've looked subpar in recent NHL games playing on a complete laughingstock of a defence.

There's more to waivers than just "completely worthless and unwanted" or "quality NHL player". That's why guys like Markstrom slip through waivers. Sometimes guys just aren't ready and/or NHL teams just don't have space to take a chance on them for their 23 slots because they've got established safer players, or their own young players to look at, or any number of other reasons.

Larsen was clearly not a surefire NHLer at that point in a season that anyone felt like keeping him on an NHL roster. But that isn't really the same as, "Edmonton didn't want him so he must be garbage and they kicked him to the curb". Not even accounting for the lunacy of actually relying on Edmonton's judgment for any reason whatsoever.

 

[Kerricthebig]

Philip Larsen, during his time with the Oilers showed better than Justin Schultz (not that that was difficult). He was better defensively than his numbers show, but by no means a guy that you would want out against the other guys' top lines. Slotted properly in the bottom pair with second unit PP time he could do good things.

Would have been nice to have him back, but after the way KLowe MacT and Ickins treated him it's not a wonder he didn't want to come back.

Hope he has a good season with you guys, and can earn a regular shift.

 

[wonton15]

Interesting that a player that couldn't make the Oilers defense would hold out and leave for another team... (if true)

 

[RobertKron]

Interesting that a player that couldn't make the Oilers defense would hold out and leave for another team... (if true)

Who knows. Maybe he just hated Gene Princepe. Just like "man, **** this guy. I'm going home."

 

[Vandalay Industries]

This isn't true. They used him at fwd because of injuries and they didn't want to call anyone up.

This is not true. It was in Oklahoma they played him as a forward, not with the Oilers.

Larsen just didn't have the NHL level. Way to weak and soft defensively. You'll see.

 

[VanJack]

I actually thought the KHL d-pairing of Larsen-Tryamkin didn't look too bad last game...a huge improvement over their dis-jointed effort in San Jose....obviously Willie wants to take a longer look at them as a tandem...and whoever wins the battle for pp point duty --Larsen or Stecher--there's no doubt either one is a big upgrade over Weber.

 

[Hit the post]

Philip Larsen, during his time with the Oilers showed better than Justin Schultz (not that that was difficult). He was better defensively than his numbers show, but by no means a guy that you would want out against the other guys' top lines. Slotted properly in the bottom pair with second unit PP time he could do good things.

Would have been nice to have him back, but after the way KLowe MacT and Ickins treated him it's not a wonder he didn't want to come back.

Hope he has a good season with you guys, and can earn a regular shift.

I thought Marincin played pretty well for you guys (at the NHL level) - for a bottom pairing guy. Not sure why he never stuck in Edmonton (kept on getting sent down).

 

[Vandalay Industries]

I thought Marincin played pretty well for you guys (at the NHL level) - for a bottom pairing guy. Not sure why he never stuck in Edmonton (kept on getting sent down).

Like I said, because he is way too soft defensively and makes a lot of bad moves in his own end.

He's definitely slick to look at with his above average skating and quick hands with the passing and a decent shot, but if you sit down and only watch him, not the game, you will notice what the coaches are seeing: A player not fullfilling a complete role of a defenseman.

It might work if you are as good as Erik Karlsson, but if your level is "fairly good offensively in KHL" it's not enough to carry over in to the NHL.