Player Discussion Matt Dumba
- Thread starter Minnesota
- Start date
- Status
DANOZ28
Registered User
i think dumba deserved brodin $$ 4 mill but with our self inflicted cap issues 2.5 is i guess the best we could offer. im sad for dumba , happy for the team. dumba seems like the most likely player to have a breakout year.
BagHead
Registered User
I wouldn't feel too bad for him, he got a bridge deal where Brodin got a long term deal, and with that comes a difference in dollar amounts. Dumba gets less money over less term, but gains the opportunity to impress during a short contract and give himself a chance to get paid much more than $4m/yr after the bridge deal is over. Brodin, even if he explodes offensively, is locked in at around $4m/yr, regardless. It's a question of security vs. opportunity, and if I were Dumba (with the elite offensive tools that entails) I'd have taken the bridge deal, even if the Wild weren't strapped for cap space. You need look no further than PK Subban to realize how well that can go for a player with those kind of tools.
I have to say though, I'm glad we got him signed, regardless of how much cap he could take up after it's over. I really hope he explodes offensively and that we get to keep him for a very long time. I love Dumba, both the person and the player.
123TripleDoge
Registered User
- Nov 24, 2014
- 3,224
- 234
Engebretson
Thank you, sweet rabbit
Dumba is right on track. Reilly and Ghost may have put up more points, but here are some comparable #'s for other young dmen. He should be valued highly and I'm glad he hasn't been traded yet.
Ben Hutton:
75GP 1G 24A 25P
Hampus Lindholm:
80GP 10G 18A 28P
Cody Ceci:
75GP 10G 16A 26P
Ryan Murray:
82GP 4G 21A 25P
Jacob Trouba:
81GP 6G 15A 21P
Matt Dumba:
81GP 10G 16A 26P
Olli Maatta:
67GP 6G 13A 19P
Ben Hutton:
75GP 1G 24A 25P
Hampus Lindholm:
80GP 10G 18A 28P
Cody Ceci:
75GP 10G 16A 26P
Ryan Murray:
82GP 4G 21A 25P
Jacob Trouba:
81GP 6G 15A 21P
Matt Dumba:
81GP 10G 16A 26P
Olli Maatta:
67GP 6G 13A 19P
Saga of the Elk
Honoured Person
- May 31, 2008
- 3,174
- 978
This article is kind of important reading: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-gms-need-say-goodbye-bridge-contract/
I don't think Fletch had much choice dollars-wise in this case, and I know there's some skepticism about Dumba still.
Looking ahead though, I think this deal could hurt the team and lead to a unpleasant decision. But the bigger issue is still Pominville's deal.
I don't think Fletch had much choice dollars-wise in this case, and I know there's some skepticism about Dumba still.
Looking ahead though, I think this deal could hurt the team and lead to a unpleasant decision. But the bigger issue is still Pominville's deal.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Pominville's last year is buyout tolerable, if necessary. Couple the $3m in savings there, with Koivu's $6.75m, with the likely $4m savings of Brodin/Scandella leaving in expansion, and the money opens up pretty good.
The only other guy making any significant money needing to be signed that year is Zucker. If Dumba absolutely explodes he gets most of Koivu's cap. If not the Wild might actually have some significant cap space for the first time in years.
Saga of the Elk
Honoured Person
- May 31, 2008
- 3,174
- 978
Can't find the Dumba thread but given the recent discussion about him thought I'd bump this one.
Everything I wrote about him in 2012 is still true basically: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/74625/minnesota-wild-2012-draft-review/
Here's Sportsnet listing Dumba at 6th overall for the draft: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-draft-top30-prospects/
Even though Central Scouting didn't have Dumba that high they did have Cody Ceci, Griffin Reinhart, Sebastian Collberg, Ludwig Bystrom, Mikhail Grigorenko and Nikholai Prokhorkin. So ... weird class? Dumba has outperformed guys like Ryan Murray and Derrick Pouliot and is probably still hitting his stride. He's not Chris Pronger but he's not Michael Del Zotto either.
Should the Wild have drafted Forsberg instead? You can argue all day about passing on a guy who was in the discussion for number one, for a team that could desperately use a forward with his kind of scoring skill...but also worth noting that an NHL GM traded him for Martin Erat. Sometimes there are factors we don't know and can't consider. But drafting Dumba was defensible then and now.
Dumba is a young guy, a work in progress. And for the third time, in a game where the Wild's top pairing and Brodin as well were crushed in the shots department, Dumba was 26-6 in shot attempts. The points will come so give the kid a break.
Everything I wrote about him in 2012 is still true basically: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/74625/minnesota-wild-2012-draft-review/
Here's Sportsnet listing Dumba at 6th overall for the draft: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-draft-top30-prospects/
Even though Central Scouting didn't have Dumba that high they did have Cody Ceci, Griffin Reinhart, Sebastian Collberg, Ludwig Bystrom, Mikhail Grigorenko and Nikholai Prokhorkin. So ... weird class? Dumba has outperformed guys like Ryan Murray and Derrick Pouliot and is probably still hitting his stride. He's not Chris Pronger but he's not Michael Del Zotto either.
Should the Wild have drafted Forsberg instead? You can argue all day about passing on a guy who was in the discussion for number one, for a team that could desperately use a forward with his kind of scoring skill...but also worth noting that an NHL GM traded him for Martin Erat. Sometimes there are factors we don't know and can't consider. But drafting Dumba was defensible then and now.
Dumba is a young guy, a work in progress. And for the third time, in a game where the Wild's top pairing and Brodin as well were crushed in the shots department, Dumba was 26-6 in shot attempts. The points will come so give the kid a break.
I got really excited because I thought this was a new extension.... whoops. Anyway, totally agree with what you said Peter.
I did a double take too. The title should probably be modified if we're turning this into a Dumba general discussion.
It's easy to play the hindsight game in drafting, but he wasn't a bad choice at the time. Really the only d-man, drafted in the 1st round after Dumba, I would make a 1 for 1 swap would be Trouba. I really do like the thought of a Brodin/Trouba 2nd pair.
The main concern I have, is Dumba had a hard time playing with other d-men. Scandella/Dumba really wasn't good most of last season. Brodin/Dumba hasn't ever clicked. Reilly/Dumba was dreadful to watch last year.
His next contract should be an interesting one for GMCF.
Edit* looks the the title has been changed even before I finished posting. Good Job Mods.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
He's been better since moved to a pair with Quincey; the Vancouver numbers were what they were, and I feel like he was noticeably better in the Calgary game. He played his best in his time here with Leipold, so maybe he just needs a calming veteran presence beside him.
Everybody gets all hung up on mentions of Dumba's defensive deficiencies like we're saying the guy is consistently awful. At least in my case, that's not what it is. Let's say your average d-man does the right thing 90% of the time, and 1 out of every 10 times he's got the puck or needs to defend, due to a bad decision or poor skill there is a negative outcome. The number's not important, we're saying this is your average defenseman's rate. In my opinion, whatever that number is, Dumba is probably pretty close to it for offense-oriented d-men.
Now let's say that this is similar to having a cat that is intended to crap in a certain litter box. Your average cat manages to go in the box 9 out of 10 times. 1 out of 10 times, due to the need coming when it's too far away or due to what it ate or whatever, it doesn't make it into the box. Once or twice a week you find a surprise near the box, or maybe on a couch cushion. A real special case maybe seems to prefer your dining table or an open dresser drawer. You still describe these as normal cats because they're getting it in there 9 out of 10 times.
But now, let's say you've got a cat that 1 out of 10 times rakes its way up your curtains to the ceiling and like it's a goddamn superpower it stalks its way inverted to the middle of your ceiling and just starts to unload while its tail, appearing to have a whisk tied to it, bats missiles left and right with such ferocity that cat anus-smoke sets off fire alarms. When the fire truck arrives, you probably don't say "Well you see, I have this normal cat." Instead you open the door looking completely lost and staring right through the fire chief while saying "I don't even own a whisk." This is Dumba to me, and honestly I love his commitment to making the most of his 1 in 10. It's so complete that I sometimes become convinced he's not really playing hockey, but rather a bizarre triathlon in which hockey is just the first leg. The second is "just start f***ing invisible fishing from the bench" and he apparently reaches that leg of the race right in the middle of defending a 2-on-1. I don't know what the third stage is. Probably not cat crap clean-up. Only Dumba seems to know. All I know is that it's spectacular.
Now let's say that this is similar to having a cat that is intended to crap in a certain litter box. Your average cat manages to go in the box 9 out of 10 times. 1 out of 10 times, due to the need coming when it's too far away or due to what it ate or whatever, it doesn't make it into the box. Once or twice a week you find a surprise near the box, or maybe on a couch cushion. A real special case maybe seems to prefer your dining table or an open dresser drawer. You still describe these as normal cats because they're getting it in there 9 out of 10 times.
But now, let's say you've got a cat that 1 out of 10 times rakes its way up your curtains to the ceiling and like it's a goddamn superpower it stalks its way inverted to the middle of your ceiling and just starts to unload while its tail, appearing to have a whisk tied to it, bats missiles left and right with such ferocity that cat anus-smoke sets off fire alarms. When the fire truck arrives, you probably don't say "Well you see, I have this normal cat." Instead you open the door looking completely lost and staring right through the fire chief while saying "I don't even own a whisk." This is Dumba to me, and honestly I love his commitment to making the most of his 1 in 10. It's so complete that I sometimes become convinced he's not really playing hockey, but rather a bizarre triathlon in which hockey is just the first leg. The second is "just start f***ing invisible fishing from the bench" and he apparently reaches that leg of the race right in the middle of defending a 2-on-1. I don't know what the third stage is. Probably not cat crap clean-up. Only Dumba seems to know. All I know is that it's spectacular.
MoeTheHobo
Registered User
- Jan 24, 2017
- 859
- 1,044
DANOZ28
Registered User
lots of debate draft need vs BPA, i believe forsberg was bpa and i had a heart attack when we passed on him (im not always right) . one person described dumba as a gunslinger so i thought he might be a good offensive defenseman well so far so good. i'd like to see a wild D man who can throw bone crushing checks but hey im old school. now im torn whether we should have lost dumba to vegas & kept haula & tuch.
2Pair
Registered User
- Oct 8, 2017
- 12,633
- 5,103
ThatGuy22
Registered User
- Oct 11, 2011
- 10,522
- 4,208
Well, that was about the worst game i've seen Dumba play since his rookie year against Chicago right before fletcher should have (but didn't) send him back to Juniors.
With Reilly and Gustav playing very well, and Quincey looking somewhat decent it'll be interesting to see if BB continues the benching into the next game with a healthy scratch, or gives Dumba a chance to redeem himself.
I suspect he'll get a chance to bounce back Thursday, and if we see more of the same he'll see a healthy scratch the game after. But Dumba really needs to get his D zone play together. Or at the very least, start contributing offensively so he's not such a net negative whenever he steps on the ice.
With Reilly and Gustav playing very well, and Quincey looking somewhat decent it'll be interesting to see if BB continues the benching into the next game with a healthy scratch, or gives Dumba a chance to redeem himself.
I suspect he'll get a chance to bounce back Thursday, and if we see more of the same he'll see a healthy scratch the game after. But Dumba really needs to get his D zone play together. Or at the very least, start contributing offensively so he's not such a net negative whenever he steps on the ice.
nickschultzfan
Registered User
- Jan 7, 2009
- 11,558
- 908
Pick-6 is a great analogy. Dumba is like a "dual-threat" quarterback who throws lots of INTs. Always overvalued on the premise of "future upside".
When it turns out position specialization is kind of important, and if you are going to have any real success, you need to be consistently be great at your primary duty (defense, throwing) .
When it turns out position specialization is kind of important, and if you are going to have any real success, you need to be consistently be great at your primary duty (defense, throwing) .
HollaHaula
Cynical Wild fan
- Jul 28, 2015
- 860
- 280
Yeah, I see Dumba turning into the "Ryan Fitzpatrick" of defensemen. Sure, he'll have a number of games in a season where you think you have an absolute stud on your team. But then he'll make that one brutal play that will cost your team the game and have streches of being very average.
Dumba is flashy here and there but just can't put it together consistently. He may pan out to be a great defenseman but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Last edited:
Minnesnota
Registered User
238 games in the NHL and he still can't put it together? Color me surprised.
Time for the Dumba apologists to wake up and realize he's just not that good.
Time for the Dumba apologists to wake up and realize he's just not that good.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Or maybe continue to be optimistic because a) none of us can control anything, and b) it's more enjoyable that way.
- Status
Ad
Upcoming events
-
BET ON ONLY ONE HORSE WATCH LIVE - FINGER LAKES RACE 1 - Farmington, NYWagers: 2Staked: $273.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
-
-