Player Discussion Marner Talk - Fresh, insightful comments are welcome

[Gary Nylund]

If he wants to remain here he could take the year to change the narrative.

He's got a better chance of changing it somewhere else. His best bet is to go to a team that's not expected to make the playoffs, that way he either doesn't get the chance to suck once again in the playoffs, or he's a hero for helping the team even get that far and there won't be any expectations when they do get there.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Now I know why we lose every year. Someone hasn’t paid tribute and sacrificed a goat. Not naming names, but you know who you are.

You mean I've been doing it wrong for 57 years?

 

[ToneDog]

You guys want to hear something funny?
Not only will Mitch not be traded, he will be extended.

Yeah Kyper and Friedman said there are teams already calling. Let's hope Mitch comes to his senses and accepts a trade so we can start the Matthews/Nylander era.

From listening to Kyper, he appears to be a Marner insider.

 

[Mess]

The issue isn't so much having all that money ties up in four players, it is the four players in whom that money is tied up. If those four were in the top ten in playoff scoring and the Leafs were winning series', nobody would care. If that money was tied up in two top ten playoff scoring forwards, a stud #1 defenceman, a Vezina caliber goalie, and the Leafs were winning series', nobody would care.

The problem is that the players in whom the money is tied up are flawed as a group, so the money is invested in the wrong people.

That is certainly also true.. But both things can be true at the same time,

Marner @ $11 mil for 1 goal and 2 assists for 3 points and Tavares @ $11 mil for 1 goal and 1 assist for 2 points. This is beyond ridiculously poor cap management.

However the facts remain that NO NHL team has ever advanced beyond the 2nd round of the playoff with multiple double digit salaries/cap hits and with Willy's new raise kicking in Leafs will have 4 players in the top 10 highest cap players in the league all on the same team that has never won more than 5 playoff games in a single season.

 

[Jojalu]

Not sure of this was brought up but Friedman was on Kyper&Bourne last night (2nd hour). Friedman says Ferris usually gets his players to walk. It sounded like Mitch wants $100m or $12.5mx8. So tell me how he is going to get $100m on a 7 year deal if he walks?

If true the Marner camp is dilutional. Cut bait at all costs.

Kyper is now a Marner fanboy and asks why is $11m Tavares not getting the same heat as Mitch? Let's see, Tavares actually played hard. He had his moment on the OT winner by Knies. Had 13 combined hits in the last two games. Mitch avoided contact like the plague and was MEH and never had a "moment".

Bukala said it nicely. If you are a player making peanuts and you just battled and sacrificed your body for 7 games and you look at Mitch making 11 sheets, you are not going to be happy. I know I would not be impressed.

I would agree. Tavares competed every shift. His skill has just eroded quite a bit.

I would say Mitch works hard, but he doesn't compete.

He doesn't change the way he does things when he is finding zero success. He soesn't fight for the extra inch.

Ferraro was on last night. He said Mitch was either injured or disinterested. He also pointed out that he had to only be great for one play. The same way Pasta was invisible all series except for when it mattered most

 

[57 Years No Cup]

To be fair.... if Mitch wants to be here BADLY, and wants the pressure off his back, there's a real simple solution.

Sign for 8 years, $9.5m. Do what Matthews & Nylander wouldn't / didn't. Take a meaningful discount for a shot to win.

Yes, if he thinks he's worth $12.5m, you're asking him to walk away from $24m... which is undoubtedly a lot of money.... but maybe not in the grand scheme of things for a guy who already has $65m in career earnings, and would be signing up for another $76m.

Why? $9.5 million for a no show in the playoffs doesn't help us either. No, BYE!

 

[Trapper]

If he wants to remain here he could take the year to change the narrative.

True. The Leafs could also focus solely on JT waiving instead. We don’t know the plan. We will have to see how the summer plays out.

Could be interesting, could be stressful and could be toxic here. A lot of different sides on how the Leafs should move forward.

 

[studebaker17]

He actually has a point. It's such bullshit that Tavares drastically underperforms with his 2 points in 7 games yet among this fanbase it's basically accepted by default that he's going to be garbage no matter what, so he gets let off the hook for criticism. He really does get the Team Canada royalty treatment.

Mitch's criticism comes from a place where we all know the level he can perform at, it's just that his game has no carry over to the playoffs.

A ton depends on what return or spending on FA if they trade Marner but of the last 5 years only last year was a year that if you took him off the team they would of missed the payoffs no doubt. Even last year the leafs were only 9 points out of being out of the playoffs. Couple that with some of the bubble teams that will no doubt improve .
That said they won't be able to replace his offence but if they bring the goals against drastically down like a true contender would be then they will be ok.

 

[Gallagbi]

If he wants to remain here he could take the year to change the narrative.

Would be so Mitch to do that. Likely ends up as a villain by trying to be the hero

 

[Nineteen67]

I would agree. Tavares competed every shift. His skill has just eroded quite a bit.

I would say Mitch works hard, but he doesn't compete.

He doesn't change the way he does things when he is finding zero success. He soesn't fight for the extra inch.

Ferraro was on last night. He said Mitch was either injured or disinterested. He also pointed out that he had to only be great for one play. The same way Pasta was invisible all series except for when it mattered most

Ferraro was being kind. Disinterested was really a nice way of saying he was timid.

 

[Ulysses31]

prolly not waving NMC.

tml shouldnt offer him a contract tho

 

[CapspaceKiller]

Not sure of this was brought up but Friedman was on Kyper&Bourne last night (2nd hour). Friedman says Ferris usually gets his players to walk. It sounded like Mitch wants $100m or $12.5mx8. So tell me how he is going to get $100m on a 7 year deal if he walks?

If true the Marner camp is dilutional. Cut bait at all costs.

Kyper is now a Marner fanboy and asks why is $11m Tavares not getting the same heat as Mitch? Let's see, Tavares actually played hard. He had his moment on the OT winner by Knies. Had 13 combined hits in the last two games. Mitch avoided contact like the plague and was MEH and never had a "moment".

Bukala said it nicely. If you are a player making peanuts and you just battled and sacrificed your body for 7 games and you look at Mitch making 11 sheets, you are not going to be happy. I know I would not be impressed.

Kyper's always been Team Marner. He's been saying he's better than Matthews for 5 years now, when the separation of the players is getting bigger and bigger. There's a group of Toronto Media member under The Mitch Marner spell, probably because Mitch is from the area unlike those "outsiders" Matthews and Willy who aren't.

Mitch hasn't earned the 10,9m/per the team paid him if you objectively look at it. Matthews and Willy both earned their post-entry level deals, Mitch didn't. Yet Mitch wants a raise.

He's very likely getting traded, its the Tkachuk situation all over again. The agent will try to get Mitch to free agency, but if the leafs just go "we aren't offering you anything. " or "The offer is 7x9.5". Mitch loses the ability to get the 8th year.

Mitch will give the team 3-4 teams he'll sign long-term with. The leafs will send him there for $.75 on the dollar in a trade and Mitch will sign with the new team for like 12.5x8. This has occurred in the past. Treliving already lost Gaudreau, he's not going to do again with Marner.

 

[ACC1224]

Would be so Mitch to do that. Likely ends up as a villain by trying to be the hero

Yeah it will be a tough script to flip. No real downside, he already is the villain.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

The issue isn't so much having all that money ties up in four players, it is the four players in whom that money is tied up. If those four were in the top ten in playoff scoring and the Leafs were winning series', nobody would care. If that money was tied up in two top ten playoff scoring forwards, a stud #1 defenceman, a Vezina caliber goalie, and the Leafs were winning series', nobody would care.

The problem is that the players in whom the money is tied up are flawed as a group, so the money is invested in the wrong people.

Yup. And Marner's one of those "wrong people".

 

[ACC1224]

Question, no contract has been discussed yet, why are many saying he "wants a raise"?
I'm guessing that's an assumption?

 

[ToneDog]

Kyper's always been Team Marner. He's been saying he's better than Matthews for 5 years now, when the separation of the players is getting bigger and bigger. There's a group of Toronto Media member under The Mitch Marner spell, probably because Mitch is from the area unlike those "outsiders" Matthews and Willy who aren't.

Mitch hasn't earned the 10,9m/per the team paid him if you objectively look at it. Matthews and Willy both earned their post-entry level deals, Mitch didn't. Yet Mitch wants a raise.

He's very likely getting traded, its the Tkachuk situation all over again. The agent will try to get Mitch to free agency, but if the leafs just go "we aren't offering you anything. " or "The offer is 7x9.5". Mitch loses the ability to get the 8th year.

Mitch will give the team 3-4 teams he'll sign long-term with. The leafs will send him there for $.75 on the dollar in a trade and Mitch will sign with the new team for like 12.5x8. This has occurred in the past. Treliving already lost Gaudreau, he's not going to do again with Marner.

There was one year early on when his position was they should move Marner. I do not remember exactly why but I recall many pissing on Kyper at the time.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

Question, no contract has been discussed yet, why are many saying he "wants a raise"?
I'm guessing that's an assumption?

Media members have already said the agent is asking for a raise.

 

[Nineteen67]

Would be so Mitch to do that. Likely ends up as a villain by trying to be the hero

The Leafs don’t have the luxury of giving him another playoff round to prove himself.

 

[Tak7]

Question, no contract has been discussed yet, why are many saying he "wants a raise"?
I'm guessing that's an assumption?

People seem to be assuming, based on how the previous negotiations went + Ferris.

Personally I can't see the Marner camp sitting at the other end of the negotiating table and not asking for a raise. He's probably not deserving of it, but they'll come up with an effective platform based on his points production in the regular season, usage, all situations, quality of competition etc., to try and come in between the Matthews and Nylander deals.

And it'll be the wrong play if indeed they do end up negotiating.

 

[Jojalu]

Ferraro was being kind. Disinterested was really a nice way of saying he was timid.

I don't know if it is all that kind to say someone is not interested in playing Game 7 of the playoffs.

That's a pretty big knock on his character if true.

I highly doubt he was uninterested. I do however question his compete level. Not just his though

 

[Menzinger]

No.

We want to improve our team and that doesn’t preclude him doing well elsewhere

I agree with that, but I was talking more about from the POV of the GM.

 

[ACC1224]

Media member have already said the agent is asking for a raise.

Asking who? Is the thought that Marner is telling his agent to do that when he said he hasn't thought about his contract yet?

People seem to be assuming, based on how the previous negotiations went + Ferris.

Personally I can't see the Marner camp sitting at the other end of the negotiating table and not asking for a raise. He's probably not deserving of it, but they'll come up with an effective platform based on his points production in the regular season, usage, all situations, quality of competition etc., to try and come in between the Matthews and Nylander deals.

And it'll be the wrong play if indeed they do end up negotiating.

Just seems weird that an assumption is made, becomes taken as fact and then people get upset about it.
I doubt very much any discussions have taken place yet.

 

[Gallagbi]

Yeah it will be a tough script to flip. No real downside, he already is the villain.

He can change the villain narrative by accepting a trade and being successful elsewhere or sign a sweetheart extension like 7x7 or 8x8

 

[ACC1224]

He can change the villain narrative by accepting a trade and being successful elsewhere or sign a sweetheart extension like 7x7 or 8x8

I'm going on the assumption he has no interest in leaving.
A sweetheart extension would go a long way for sure, I'd love to see it.

 

[ULF_55]

To be fair.... if Mitch wants to be here BADLY, and wants the pressure off his back, there's a real simple solution.

Sign for 8 years, $9.5m. Do what Matthews & Nylander wouldn't / didn't. Take a meaningful discount for a shot to win.

Yes, if he thinks he's worth $12.5m, you're asking him to walk away from $24m... which is undoubtedly a lot of money.... but maybe not in the grand scheme of things for a guy who already has $65m in career earnings, and would be signing up for another $76m.

Tavares, Matthews, marner, Nylander

Estimated Career Earnings

: $95,141,463



Estimated Career Earnings

: $52,995,000
Estimated Career Earnings

: $52,133,000


Estimated Career Earnings

: $37,999,427