Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

[RoadWarrior]

1. Knies
2. Woll
3. Holmberg
4. Niemela
5. Robertson
6. Grebenkin
7. Moldenhauer
8. Cowan
9. McMann
10. Akhtyamov
11. Abruzzese
12. Minten
13. Hildeby
14. Hirvonen
15. Steeves
16. Voit
17. Villeneuve
18. Peksa

Knies, Woll and Holmberg are just about guaranteed time in the NHL this season. Niemela is the only D prospect with a decent shot at NHL playing time but he still needs to get stronger. Moldenhauer is a better prospect than he's been given credit for with good speed and skill. Grebenkin is another guy with top 6 potential.

The jury is out on Cowan with a limited sample size but the tools are there to succeed.

Bobby McMann can skate and shoot at the nhl level but can he keep up with the pace of play? We'll find out this year.

Nick Abruzzese is a very cerebral player with high hockey IQ who can handle the game at an NHL pace. The question is whether there's enough underlying strength and skill to make it work.

Everything after the 11th spot in my mind are longshots to make he NHL. Minten despite being a second round pick didn't really improve his production at even strength in his D+1 season. Hirvonen has tenacity and intelligence but the skating could be an issue especially given his size. Steeves works hard but has a limited skill set. He's probably destined for a 4th line role. Voit has an excellent skill set but is one dimensional. Needs to round out his game. Villeneauve needs to work on his skating.

It's not the worst prospect pool in the league but definitely in the bottom half. That tends to happen when you trade first round picks for consecutive tears in a row and the only other first round pick develops a brain tumor.

 

[geo25]

1. Knies
2. Woll
3. Holmberg
4. Niemela
5. Robertson
6. Grebenkin
7. Moldenhauer
8. Cowan
9. McMann
10. Akhtyamov
11. Abruzzese
12. Minten
13. Hildeby
14. Hirvonen
15. Steeves
16. Voit
17. Villeneuve
18. Peksa

Knies, Woll and Holmberg are just about guaranteed time in the NHL this season. Niemela is the only D prospect with a decent shot at NHL playing time but he still needs to get stronger. Moldenhauer is a better prospect than he's been given credit for with good speed and skill. Grebenkin is another guy with top 6 potential.

The jury is out on Cowan with a limited sample size but the tools are there to succeed.

Bobby McMann can skate and shoot at the nhl level but can he keep up with the pace of play? We'll find out this year.

Nick Abruzzese is a very cerebral player with high hockey IQ who can handle the game at an NHL pace. The question is whether there's enough underlying strength and skill to make it work.

Everything after the 11th spot in my mind are longshots to make he NHL. Minten despite being a second round pick didn't really improve his production at even strength in his D+1 season. Hirvonen has tenacity and intelligence but the skating could be an issue especially given his size. Steeves works hard but has a limited skill set. He's probably destined for a 4th line role. Voit has an excellent skill set but is one dimensional. Needs to round out his game. Villeneauve needs to work on his skating.

It's not the worst prospect pool in the league but definitely in the bottom half. That tends to happen when you trade first round picks for consecutive tears in a row and the only other first round pick develops a brain tumor.

Some good insights!

 

[IceColdBear]

Grebenkin is being under rated here imo. He will be our top prospect by the end of next season unless Niemela lights up the AHL (which is a possibility).

Compare Grebenkin to Danila Yurov (Minesota's first round pick in 2022, taken one spot before we were slated to pick, and rumour was we traded the down with CHI to dump Mrazek because they took him) - Grebenkin was born May 2003, and Yurov Dec 2003, so he's about half a year older.

The Athletic ranked Yurov as the # 29 NHL prospect in Feb 2023, far ahead of all of our prospects including Knies at 42 at that time: Scott Wheeler's top 50 drafted NHL prospects ranking, 2023 edition

Elite Prospects had Yurov at # 53 with Knies at 38 in Mar 2023: Top 100 Prospects in the NHL - Elite Prospects

Yurov and Grebenkin came up playing together in the Magnitigorsk system.

In 2018/2019, they put up comprable numbers playing on the same Russia U16 league team (55 points in 35 games for Grebenkin, 60 points in 35 games for Yurov).

In 2019/2020, Grebenkin put up 46 points in 30 games as the captain of their Russia U17 league team, while Yurov put up 27 points in 19 games on that same team - again, comprable production.

In 2020/2021 and 2021/2022, Yurov did admittidely out produce Grebenkin by a decent margin in the MHL playing on the same team, although Grebenkin was an alternate captain on the team in 2021/2022 and Yurov was not.

This past season, Grebenkin had top six production in the KHL and won rookie of the year while Yurov had twelve points in 59 games. Of course, Yurov was playing on Magnitigorsk, a power house team where young players will have difficulty cracking the line-up, while Grebenkin was on loan to a bottom feeding team. Still, like all young players in the KHL, Grebenkin did not start out with meaningful minutes, and earned every opportunity he got.

I would still rate Yurov as the better prospect - but the difference between the two is not so great - if Yurov is a top 30 to 50 NHL prospect, then Grebenkin should be a top 50 to 75 NHL prospect, and higher rated than any of our prospects other than Knies (I can see an argument for Robertson or Niemela, but would still take Grebenkin's upside myself).

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Grebenkin is being under rated here imo. He will be our top prospect by the end of next season unless Niemela lights up the AHL (which is a possibility).

Compare Grebenkin to Danila Yurov (Minesota's first round pick in 2022, taken one spot before we were slated to pick, and rumour was we traded the down with CHI to dump Mrazek because they took him) - Grebenkin was born May 2003, and Yurov Dec 2003, so he's about half a year older.

The Athletic ranked Yurov as the # 29 NHL prospect in Feb 2023, far ahead of all of our prospects including Knies at 42 at that time: Scott Wheeler's top 50 drafted NHL prospects ranking, 2023 edition

Elite Prospects had Yurov at # 53 with Knies at 38 in Mar 2023: Top 100 Prospects in the NHL - Elite Prospects

Yurov and Grebenkin came up playing together in the Magnitigorsk system.

In 2018/2019, they put up comprable numbers playing on the same Russia U16 league team (55 points in 35 games for Grebenkin, 60 points in 35 games for Yurov).

In 2019/2020, Grebenkin put up 46 points in 30 games as the captain of their Russia U17 league team, while Yurov put up 27 points in 19 games on that same team - again, comprable production.

In 2020/2021 and 2021/2022, Yurov did admittidely out produce Grebenkin by a decent margin in the MHL playing on the same team, although Grebenkin was an alternate captain on the team in 2021/2022 and Yurov was not.

This past season, Grebenkin had top six production in the KHL and won rookie of the year while Yurov had twelve points in 59 games. Of course, Yurov was playing on Magnitigorsk, a power house team where young players will have difficulty cracking the line-up, while Grebenkin was on loan to a bottom feeding team. Still, like all young players in the KHL, Grebenkin did not start out with meaningful minutes, and earned every opportunity he got.

I would still rate Yurov as the better prospect - but the difference between the two is not so great - if Yurov is a top 30 to 50 NHL prospect, then Grebenkin should be a top 50 to 75 NHL prospect, and higher rated than any of our prospects other than Knies (I can see an argument for Robertson or Niemela, but would still take Grebenkin's upside myself).

I thought it was after the Ohgren pick was when Dubas started working the phones?

 

[IceColdBear]

I thought it was after the Ohgren pick was when Dubas started working the phones?

I could be wrong on that, that was just my recollection.

 

[Fogelhund]

An early look at 2024 draft rankings from Upside Hockey. I'm not sure who they are, but it's a neat spreadsheet, plenty of data and links to EliteProspects for each player.



Direct link to the spreadsheet is at. UPSIDE - 2024 NHL Draft Rankings

 

[Fogelhund]

""

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

 

[Mitch nylander]

Outside of his size there isn't much there. He's the same age as Matthews and has yet to show signs of being an nhl piece. Could be wrong on this one but to me he isn't even better than what Brazeau was, and I was way lower on Brazeau than most were.

 

[VanW27]

Outside of his size there isn't much there. He's the same age as Matthews and has yet to show signs of being an nhl piece. Could be wrong on this one but to me he isn't even better than what Brazeau was, and I was way lower on Brazeau than most were.

25 and might be able to challenge for an AHL 4th line spot this upcoming season - not much to be intrigued about.

He needs another 2 or 3 years of major development where he takes significant strides forward (big ask) before he's even a "prospect", at which point he'll be 27/28.

Although there seems to be a lot of optimism from some people for 27 year old "prospect" Bobby McMann

 

[Mitch nylander]

25 and might be able to challenge for an AHL 4th line spot this upcoming season - not much to be intrigued about.

He needs another 2 or 3 years of major development where he takes significant strides forward (big ask) before he's even a "prospect", at which point he'll be 27/28.

Although there seems to be a lot of optimism from some people for 27 year old "prospect" Bobby McMann

See at least Bobby McMann didn't look out of place at the NHL level and blew up the AHL this year. Guy has nhl qualities.

Suthers is essentially an older version of Curtin Douglas that doesn't fight or have the defensive accumen. Harsh but true reality.

 

[The Iceman]

Guy is a lottery ticket at best but he made a huge jump in production this past season.
Could play a role, tough guy to move in front of the net no doubt.

He is newly minted 25 years old. Big guys mature later. WHO KNOWS.
4th liner with size??

 

[VanW27]

See at least Bobby McMann didn't look out of place at the NHL level and blew up the AHL this year. Guy has nhl qualities.

Suthers is essentially an older version of Curtin Douglas that doesn't fight or have the defensive accumen. Harsh but true reality.

McMann has the size and skating, he could be 4th line forchecker. But there's just no offense to be more than that. He exploded offensively as a fully mature 25/26 YO man playing in the AHL and while the goals piled up the complete lack of assists would seem to be indicative of a guy who's physical ability allows him to force his way into goals at the AHL level but doesn't have the skill level to generate much otherwise.

I've made the comparison to ZAR before who's less than 2 years older than McMann and plays a similar role as a 4th line forchecker. But ZAR put up monstrous numbers in college, then strong numbers as a young AHLer before quickly becoming a full time 4th liner at the NHL level. But regardless of that, ZAR is a guy who just doesn't have the skill to be more than a 4th liner. At the lower levels (AHL/College) like McMann now as a grown man, the physical tools fir ZAR (size/strenght/skating) were enough to just overwhelm much of the competition.

 

[notbias]

Guy is a lottery ticket at best but he made a huge jump in production this past season.
Could play a role, tough guy to move in front of the net no doubt.

He is newly minted 25 years old. Big guys mature later. WHO KNOWS.
4th liner with size??

Probably should have just brought back Radim Zahorna if all they cared about was size, he is only 27.

The guy is a crazy long shot, not sure he is even worth discussion at this point, although it is fun to hope.

 

[Mess]

The NHL network new prospect rankings are out and the Leafs prospect pool, due to all the traded picks and poor selections #25 of 32.

Prospect pool rankings for all 32 NHL teams; Leafs rank low​

With the 2023 NHL Entry Draft concluding almost a month ago, it's been high-time for draft-makers and analysts to post league-wide rankings in terms of prospects and team pipelines. The NHL Network posted their rankings a few days ago and had the Toronto Maple Leafs at 25th with division rivals in Buffalo standing at the top of pack.

The Maple Leafs have been contending for the last 6-7 years and in doing so, their pipeline is a little barren compared to the rest of the league. Since 2019, the Leafs have only had 2 first round picks and they used it on Rodion Amirov in 2020 and Easton Cowan in last month's draft. In fact, they only selected three times in both 2021 and 2023, yet for a team barren with picks and top-end talent in the pipeline, they've found some pretty good value in their later selections.

Matthew Knies, Topi Niemela and Fraser Minten stand at the top with Nicholas Moldenhauer, Roni Hirvonen, Dennis Hildeby, Ty Voit, Artur Akhtyamov and Easton Cowan rounding out the team's top prospects.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Yet another ranking that somehow thinks there are 9+ better prospects than Grebyonkin in the system and can safely be ignored.

We all know the pool is bottom 10 in the league so exactly where it ranks is irrelevant.

 

[hockeynorth]

Grebyonkin is good but I'm wary of what his production may look like this year, if he goes near Pt/Gp, thats an awesome prospect


I'd say my ranking (subjective because I am counting Nick Robertson and Joe Woll due to lack of GP)

1. Knies
2. Niemela
3. Minten
4. Robertson
5. Grebyonkin
6. Cowan
7. Woll
8. Hirvonen
9. Moldenhauer
10. Hildeby

 

[LeafSteel]

Grebyonkin is good but I'm wary of what his production may look like this year, if he goes near Pt/Gp, thats an awesome prospect


I'd say my ranking (subjective because I am counting Nick Robertson and Joe Woll due to lack of GP)

1. Knies
2. Niemela
3. Minten
4. Robertson
5. Grebyonkin
6. Cowan
7. Woll
8. Hirvonen
9. Moldenhauer
10. Hildeby

I’m just posting to say thank you for getting the term wary right to say you are dubious vs the 95% who say weary instead.

I’ve grown weary of the wary….

Gotta find the positives wherever you find them!

 

[Dayjobdave]

I’m just posting to say thank you for getting the term wary right to say you are dubious vs the 95% who say weary instead.

I’ve grown weary of the wary….

Gotta find the positives wherever you find them!

Wouldn’t that make you wary of weary?

 

[LeafSteel]

Wouldn’t that make you wary of weary?

I wasn’t aware!

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

1. Knies
2. Woll
3. Holmberg
4. Niemela
5. Robertson
6. Grebenkin
7. Moldenhauer
8. Cowan
9. McMann
10. Akhtyamov
11. Abruzzese
12. Minten
13. Hildeby
14. Hirvonen
15. Steeves
16. Voit
17. Villeneuve
18. Peksa

Knies, Woll and Holmberg are just about guaranteed time in the NHL this season. Niemela is the only D prospect with a decent shot at NHL playing time but he still needs to get stronger. Moldenhauer is a better prospect than he's been given credit for with good speed and skill. Grebenkin is another guy with top 6 potential.

The jury is out on Cowan with a limited sample size but the tools are there to succeed.

Bobby McMann can skate and shoot at the nhl level but can he keep up with the pace of play? We'll find out this year.

Nick Abruzzese is a very cerebral player with high hockey IQ who can handle the game at an NHL pace. The question is whether there's enough underlying strength and skill to make it work.

Everything after the 11th spot in my mind are longshots to make he NHL. Minten despite being a second round pick didn't really improve his production at even strength in his D+1 season. Hirvonen has tenacity and intelligence but the skating could be an issue especially given his size. Steeves works hard but has a limited skill set. He's probably destined for a 4th line role. Voit has an excellent skill set but is one dimensional. Needs to round out his game. Villeneauve needs to work on his skating.

It's not the worst prospect pool in the league but definitely in the bottom half. That tends to happen when you trade first round picks for consecutive tears in a row and the only other first round pick develops a brain tumor.

Great post but damn our pool sucks.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Great post but damn our pool sucks.

Compared to the bottom feeders of the league, sure.

 

[Mess]

Leafs prospect's career may be over at just 21 years old​

The Leafs then used that pick on Russian winger Rodion Amirov.

Early in 2022, the Leafs prospect was diagnosed with a brain tumor and was sent to Germany to undergo treatment. A year and a half later, we still have more questions than answers and all of Amirov, Salavat Yulayev and the Leafs have been very quiet about the situation.

As Kyle Cushman pointed out, the Leafs and Salavat Yulayev had renewed Amirov's loan to the KHL club, but while some took this as a sign that he was expected to return this season, Cushman revealed that the loan had more to do with Amirov having access to the team and its staff rather than a return being anywhere on the horizon.

Obviously, the number one concern remains Amirov's health. Battling a brain tumor is unfathomable at any age, let alone at 21 years old. We're all hoping for the best possible outcome here, being that he'll recover and be able to resume his career at some point down the line, but at this point, we'll settle for him just being able to recover and live his life, even if a hockey career is no longer in the cards.

 

[andora]

Leafs prospect's career may be over at just 21 years old​

The Leafs then used that pick on Russian winger Rodion Amirov.

Early in 2022, the Leafs prospect was diagnosed with a brain tumor and was sent to Germany to undergo treatment. A year and a half later, we still have more questions than answers and all of Amirov, Salavat Yulayev and the Leafs have been very quiet about the situation.

View attachment 730911

As Kyle Cushman pointed out, the Leafs and Salavat Yulayev had renewed Amirov's loan to the KHL club, but while some took this as a sign that he was expected to return this season, Cushman revealed that the loan had more to do with Amirov having access to the team and its staff rather than a return being anywhere on the horizon.

Obviously, the number one concern remains Amirov's health. Battling a brain tumor is unfathomable at any age, let alone at 21 years old. We're all hoping for the best possible outcome here, being that he'll recover and be able to resume his career at some point down the line, but at this point, we'll settle for him just being able to recover and live his life, even if a hockey career is no longer in the cards.

Shitty deal man.. good healthy wishes

 

[LaPlante94]

Leafs prospect's career may be over at just 21 years old​

The Leafs then used that pick on Russian winger Rodion Amirov.

Early in 2022, the Leafs prospect was diagnosed with a brain tumor and was sent to Germany to undergo treatment. A year and a half later, we still have more questions than answers and all of Amirov, Salavat Yulayev and the Leafs have been very quiet about the situation.

View attachment 730911

As Kyle Cushman pointed out, the Leafs and Salavat Yulayev had renewed Amirov's loan to the KHL club, but while some took this as a sign that he was expected to return this season, Cushman revealed that the loan had more to do with Amirov having access to the team and its staff rather than a return being anywhere on the horizon.

Obviously, the number one concern remains Amirov's health. Battling a brain tumor is unfathomable at any age, let alone at 21 years old. We're all hoping for the best possible outcome here, being that he'll recover and be able to resume his career at some point down the line, but at this point, we'll settle for him just being able to recover and live his life, even if a hockey career is no longer in the cards.

I wonder if the league will make an exception and award us a comp pick since we signed him to help him for medical reasons and not to play.