Mario Lemieux 87-88 - Roster....wow

double5son10

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Jan 20, 2011
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Pens actually had a pretty good PP that year, they finished 6th in PP% (and 4th overall in scoring). Look a little closer and there are some decent pieces on that roster. Dan Quinn had 21 PP goals, Rob Brown 13 in only 51 games. Both were very much PP specialists throughout their careers. Blue line was weak after Coffey and Bodger and their goaltending was a mess. When Steve Guenette is your best in the nets, you've got problems.
 

crosbyshow

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Aug 25, 2017
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To have 168 points with this roster....you must be a hell of a player....I was 15 at the time and trust me...Lemieux was completely alone
 

cupcrazyman

Stupid Sexy Flanders
Aug 14, 2006
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Mike Bullard had a terrible start to the season & was traded to Calgary that year.Averaging 70 pts a season with the Pens.​
 

The Panther

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Pens didn't have problems scoring by the late-80s, but goaltending and defense were a mess. That's how you have a healthy Mario Lemieux and still miss the playoffs five times in six seasons.

In fairness, though, the old Patrick division was tough, and the Pens were close in '86, '88, and '90 (1989 was the year they made it in).

They improved a bit in Mario's first year (they couldn't have been any worse), and then took a huge stride forward in 1985-86. Mario was already 2nd in scoring and the team just narrowly missed making the playoffs. They seemed to be a team on the rise, but -- a bit like Edmonton this year -- they suddenly regressed in 1986-87. By the fall of '87, I think management was getting desperate to fast-track the team's improvement, so they had to get in on the Coffey sweepstakes, and in doing so finally give Mario a comparable talent to play with on the power-play.
 

Chili

En boca cerrada no entran moscas
Jun 10, 2004
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The year of the Paul Coffey deal, EJ and his old teammate Slats got together on the blockbuster.

The Oilers couldn`t pay everyone and Coffey was the first pillar to be dealt. Believe he was holding out.

66 and Coffey were magic together on the powerplay. The season after, the Pens set the powerplay goals by a team record that I believe still stands and may not be broken for a long time.

That was another building year towards the cup for the Pens and Coffey was a key addition. There was another part of that deal that didn`t happen (for Andy Moog) because it was apparently nixed by the Pens owner.
 

tony d

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Jun 23, 2007
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Yeah, it was Lemieux by himself basically. Still he was able to turn bit players into gold look at Rob Brown's 1988-1989 totals.
 

Trafalgar Sadge Law

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Nov 8, 2007
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Yeah, it was Lemieux by himself basically. Still he was able to turn bit players into gold look at Rob Brown's 1988-1989 totals.
Is Rob Brown bashing just the cool thing to do to make Lemieux seem better than he actually was? The guy had a 200+ season in junior and was able to score 42 points in 44 games AFTER being traded away from the Penguins, and 51 points in 67 games the season after. Obviously the guy doesn't score anywhere close to 115 points without Lemieux, but to call him a bit player is asinine.
 
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BenchBrawl

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Is Rob Brown bashing just the cool thing to do to make Lemieux seem better than he actually was? The guy had a 200+ season in junior and was able to score 42 points in 44 games AFTER being traded away from the Penguins, and 51 points in 67 games the season after. Obviously the guy doesn't score anywhere close to 115 points without Lemieux, but to call him a bit player is asinine.

Hi, Rob.How was it playing with Lemieux?

:D
 

crosbyshow

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Aug 25, 2017
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Is Rob Brown bashing just the cool thing to do to make Lemieux seem better than he actually was? The guy had a 200+ season in junior and was able to score 42 points in 44 games AFTER being traded away from the Penguins, and 51 points in 67 games the season after. Obviously the guy doesn't score anywhere close to 115 points without Lemieux, but to call him a bit player is asinine.

Do you want to talk about Randy Cunneyworth instead..? The fact is that at his prime and healthy...Lemieux was completely alone. The power play unit in those years was: Lemieux, Coffey, Quinn, Brown and Cunneyworth...... the Oilers had really not that kind of unit. The year after Lemieux did 199 in 76 points with almost the same roster.....unbelievable.

I was praying at the time to see Lemieux with Jagr, stevens etc...healthy...it never happened....the guy did 160 points in 60 games with cancer with this roster

Lemieux's father who was a really shy man and never really talked to the media said only one thing in 1992-93: My son with a good roster like this and healthy can make 225 points ....
 
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blogofmike

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Dec 16, 2010
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Rob Brown was offensively talented. It's the other stuff, like skating and backchecking, that sunk him with coaches, including Hartford head coach Jimmy Roberts, who eventually played him very sparingly at 5-on-5 and used him mainly on the powerplays.

"Brown did his damage in only 10:37 of playing time. This compares to Cullen's 20:09. "When you don't get much ice time, all you're out there for is to play power play," Brown said. "You just try to make the best of it." http://articles.courant.com/1991-12-30/sports/0000207660_1_rob-brown-whaler-ray-ferraro-jimmy-Roberts

As of Dec 31, 1991 the leading PP goal-scorer in the NHL was Rob Brown of the Hartford Whalers. NHL.com - Stats. He would lose the lead a few weeks later after continuing to receive limited playing time, and occasionally being a healthy scratch. He was then traded to the Chicago Blackhawks, who were deep enough that they didn't need a 1-way PP forward.

All in all, not a great player. But very capable of piling up points in a high PP environment.
 

Trafalgar Sadge Law

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Nov 8, 2007
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Do you want to talk about Randy Cunneyworth instead..? The fact is that at his prime and healthy...Lemieux was completely alone. The power play unit in those years was: Lemieux, Coffey, Quinn, Brown and Cunneyworth...... the Oilers had really not that kind of unit. The year after Lemieux did 199 in 76 points with almost the same roster.....unbelievable.

I was praying at the time to see Lemieux with Jagr, stevens etc...healthy...it never happened....the guy did 160 points in 60 games with cancer with this roster

Lemieux's father who was a really shy man and never really talked to the media said only one thing in 1992-93: My son with a good roster like this and healthy can make 225 points ....
Paul Coffey: Hall of Famer and unquestioned second best offensive defenseman in NHL history.
Dan Quinn: 72 points in 78 games the season before coming to Pittsburgh, 34 points in 37 games after leaving.
Rob Brown: 42 points in 44 games after leaving.

Randy Cunneyworth was not very good, but the others are plenty of help more than some other players were getting around the same time. Lemieux was certainly not "alone". A player like Dale Hawerchuk wishes he had Lemieux's supporting cast. Sure the Penguins didn't have a star studded supporting cast like the Oilers or Flames, and Lemieux was an excellent producer, but lets not pretend like he was playing on the 1992-1993 Ottawa Senators.

Hi, Rob.How was it playing with Lemieux?

:D
Very exciting, got myself a free 115 point season despite being a bantam caliber talent. :D
 

SealsFan

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May 3, 2009
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Good grief, what a huge roster, only 4 guys with over 70 games played. Did not know Charlie Simmer was a Penguin! (his last NHL season) That's one for the "dude, what are you doing in that uniform thread"...
 

crosbyshow

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Aug 25, 2017
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nah....Coffey played only 46 games that year

There is Warren Young too ..lemieux did 141 points in 85-86 with this star player....

Lemieux has a record...in 88-89, he was on the scoresheet on 57% of the Pens goals.....just unbelievable... Gretzky had not a very good roster in L.a too but he was on the scoresheet on 47% of the King's goals...


57% ....the closest in history I think, is Gretzky with 51% in Edmonton
 

The Panther

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There's no doubt Lemieux was (duh!) far and away the best Penguin during 1984 to 1989/90-ish, and after that was only the best Penguin by a somewhat smaller degree. Still, this line of "so-and-so was totally alone" never really holds up to close scrutiny, I think. I mean, these are NHL players. They were among the best players in the world if they were allowed to go out on the power-play for an NHL team. Rob Brown, I believe, outscored Theo Fleury in Junior. Quinn was quite a good player for several years. Paul Coffey (from 11.1987) a Hall of Famer.

I was watching highlights of a Pens game from 1984-85 (Lemieux's rookie year) the other day, and in the game Mario had a good night with 2 goals. But what was surprising was that his 2 goals were rather easy, and both were set up by Warren Young, who did the grudge work. I mean, the conventional thinking is that "scorin' Warren" was a bit of a plug whose stats were elevated by playing with Mario for a year or two. There's some truth to that, of course, but as this game demonstrated, even Warren Young could be the guy who helped Lemieux score some of his points.

Not to put too fine a point on it, because Lemieux did totally dominate his team's offense c.1985 to 1988 by huge degrees, but the Pens were not an offensively poor team. (In fact, didn't the '88 or '89 Pens have the 2nd-most 20-goal scorers in NHL history or something like that?)
 

Nick Hansen

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Sep 28, 2017
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There's no doubt Lemieux was (duh!) far and away the best Penguin during 1984 to 1989/90-ish, and after that was only the best Penguin by a somewhat smaller degree. Still, this line of "so-and-so was totally alone" never really holds up to close scrutiny, I think. I mean, these are NHL players. They were among the best players in the world if they were allowed to go out on the power-play for an NHL team. Rob Brown, I believe, outscored Theo Fleury in Junior. Quinn was quite a good player for several years. Paul Coffey (from 11.1987) a Hall of Famer.

I was watching highlights of a Pens game from 1984-85 (Lemieux's rookie year) the other day, and in the game Mario had a good night with 2 goals. But what was surprising was that his 2 goals were rather easy, and both were set up by Warren Young, who did the grudge work. I mean, the conventional thinking is that "scorin' Warren" was a bit of a plug whose stats were elevated by playing with Mario for a year or two. There's some truth to that, of course, but as this game demonstrated, even Warren Young could be the guy who helped Lemieux score some of his points.

Not to put too fine a point on it, because Lemieux did totally dominate his team's offense c.1985 to 1988 by huge degrees, but the Pens were not an offensively poor team. (In fact, didn't the '88 or '89 Pens have the 2nd-most 20-goal scorers in NHL history or something like that?)

Same is true of Wayne Gretzky, right?

One wonders how it would've all looked like if they switched situations. Lemieux with Tikkanen, Kurri, Coffey, Messier, Anderson and so on behind him...

Lemieux still destroyed the league when he was an old broken man at 37, with 91 pts in 67 games in 02/03.

Gretzky was barely PPG by the same age.
 
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FerrisRox

"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
Sep 17, 2003
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Mike Bullard had a terrible start to the season & was traded to Calgary that year.Averaging 70 pts a season with the Pens.​

Bullard was traded to Calgary the year before, during the 1986-87 season. He didn't have a terrible start, though. He was nearly a point a game with 12 points in 14 games before getting swapped for Dan Quinn.
 

The Panther

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One wonders how it would've all looked like if they switched situations. Lemieux with Tikkanen, Kurri, Coffey, Messier, Anderson and so on behind him...
The best comparable for Gretzky and Lemieux on similar-situation teams is each player's first two seasons in the NHL. (That will be my last comment on that, as I'm not going to get into a Gretzky/Lemieux discussion on a thread about Mario.)
 

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