Confirmed with Link: Maple Leafs re-sign Nikita Zaitsev for 7 years, $4.5M per

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
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:laugh:

Some of you are in for a reality check. I have faith in our management but I'm scared of what'll happen when the team actually has some expectations. Everyone is feeling great about this year but some of you will turn on this management quick when the team disappoints.

Fans will turn on the players long before they turn on management.
 

1specter

Registered User
Sep 27, 2016
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I see people are bringing up the Bolland and Gorges move, I will chalk those up to inexperience for Shanahan (he had only been on the job for a couple of months and this was before he committed to a teardown of the team). None of Dubas, Hunter or Lamoriello were with the team, and I am quite positive that had the whole team been there (and no Nonis or those other idiots), they wouldn't have had the names "Dave Bolland" and "Josh Gorges" come out of their mouths.
 

Animal

Registered User
Oct 10, 2012
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I see people are bringing up the Bolland and Gorges move, I will chalk those up to inexperience for Shanahan (he had only been on the job for a couple of months and this was before he committed to a teardown of the team). None of Dubas, Hunter or Lamoriello were with the team, and I am quite positive that had the whole team been there (and no Nonis or those other idiots), they wouldn't have had the names "Dave Bolland" and "Josh Gorges" come out of their mouths.

Oh I agree. But those who are claiming those moves wouldn't have been so bad are delusional.
 

burpsalot

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Feb 12, 2015
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I don't think Shanahan should even get the blame for Bolland, he's not the GM and not only was he not the guy who hired the GM responsible for that one, he's the guy who fired him.


That was the period when Shanahan had been with the team for less than 3 months & was being told by the GM, AGM & VPHO & probably many others that the team was "close". It was a time that Shanahan was still letting them make their decisions.

Things changed rather quickly once he started hiring his own people.

Having said that, I liked Bolland, but his injuries caught up to him.
 

Pookie

Wear a mask
Oct 23, 2013
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That was the period when Shanahan had been with the team for less than 3 months & was being told by the GM, AGM & VPHO & probably many others that the team was "close". It was a time that Shanahan was still letting them make their decisions.

Things changed rather quickly once he started hiring his own people.

Having said that, I liked Bolland, but his injuries caught up to him.

When he started hiring his own people after letting folks make their own decisions?

He fired all the assistants to both the Coach and the GM in the offseason and hired his own people shortly after coming.

That's not exactly a sit back approach.
 

Harold Ballard

Klutchperi Kapanen
Jan 27, 2017
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That was the period when Shanahan had been with the team for less than 3 months & was being told by the GM, AGM & VPHO & probably many others that the team was "close". It was a time that Shanahan was still letting them make their decisions.

Things changed rather quickly once he started hiring his own people.

Having said that, I liked Bolland, but his injuries caught up to him.

It was that freak injury to his Achilles/ankle...
 

Morbo

The Annihilator
Jan 14, 2003
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I see people are bringing up the Bolland and Gorges move, I will chalk those up to inexperience for Shanahan (he had only been on the job for a couple of months and this was before he committed to a teardown of the team). None of Dubas, Hunter or Lamoriello were with the team, and I am quite positive that had the whole team been there (and no Nonis or those other idiots), they wouldn't have had the names "Dave Bolland" and "Josh Gorges" come out of their mouths.

If the worst you can point to are moves that didn't even happen, generally I'd say things are going well for a management group.

And they are. believe me, as a fan of the Leafs for decades, things are going spectacularly well at the moment.

Zaitsev is another very good move by Shanahan & co. Not even a draft pick, and we get a prime aged top 4 D for a very reasonable AAV(key with the big 3 coming up).
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
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The issue was - Georges is/was a terrible hockey player and Bolland wasn't going to be worth anywhere close to his contract demands. Those were two clear mistakes fortunately Shanahan got bailed out by luck.

The thing though what makes shanahan a good hockey manager is that he clearly learns very quickly from his mistakes (for the most part).

Folks shouldn't be afraid to be critical of even small mistakes because eventually multiple small mistakes can lead to a rather nasty one.

I haven't watched a lot of hockey this year because of my crazy work schedule. But, I maintain that out of all the issues that Buffalo has - I don't think Josh Gorges is anywhere near the top of the list. Please note, I'm not saying that I would have liked that deal or anything like that, just that if it (or they) why, specifically would that have sucked? is Gorges being torched for goals? He is completely brutal defensively? And if he was here and being deployed by Babcock is he as "terrible" as you think he'd be? (I mean people have been harping on Polak/Hunwick for ages, and how bad they were - until they weren't).

If he is - i'll totally take it back, and say yah, phew, the Leafs got away with them. That's all i'm saying.

So the fact Dave Bolland sustained a career-ending injury means the move would've been okay? Just because you're "saved" from a bad contract doesn't make it okay. In addition, LTIR isn't free cap space. Thats why Florida had to package a high 1st to get another team to take him. LTIR is part of the reason why the Leafs will have close to 5 million in overage penalties for next year. No matter how you slice it, that Bolland contract is a nightmare and the Leafs dodged a huge bullet (thanks Florida).

To your second point, Gorges is not the problem.... How isn't he? He's way past his prime and is a terrible defenceman. If Buffalo didn't have so many terrible defencemen like Gorges they would've have a dramatically different season. On top of that, the deal on the table was Gorges for Franson. That means we wouldn't have gotten Dermott, Bracco, Dzierkals, Leipsic, and Mattinen.

I understand supporting the management. Overall they've done a phenomenal job. But call a spade a spade. That offseason was so close to becoming a disaster.

and if they did sign them, I would have felt that they would have worked a way to eliminate the problem. They've been doing that since the word jump. I have never said the management was perfect and hadn't (or will not) make mistakes. the actual key point i have always made is how they get rid of them and how much will the blow back hurt the Leafs.

I'll be dead honest I don't know what overages means or is or whatever. So okay point to you. However. at the time when everyone was healthy and whole, I could understand why Shanahan would want to have a Bolland (or a Gorges around). I'm not even going to play the "He was listening to Nonis and Nonis was trying to save his job." angle. Let's say these were types of players that he wanted because he knew he was going to strip the team anyway. Maybe he identified that even with their flaws, these were traits he'd want to have in the room with younger people.

Maybe he identified that he was going to be stripping the team and he wanted to have some players he liked/trusted around. I don't know.

(I think part of this "issue" is - no one expected the Leafs to get Marner (and have him be impactful so early), the Leafs winning the lottery (because if we had Pulju or Joleivi or even Tchachuk, all of them are back in the minors or in the A). or being this good). so then you can cycle back and go - yah THOSE WOULD HAVE SUCKED. well yah. because we're actually this good and we can make awesome moves with a lot less cap space. but if those things didn't happen then you have some sort of support around a team that's stripping talent and trying to build from the ground up).

maybe it would have been a disaster. but maybe Bolland doesn't get injured and he (doesn't live up to that contract), performs decent enough. Maybe under Babcock, Gorges isn't horrible/terrible. So maybe the off-season isn't a disaster. (i mean maybe it is, and you're right but we'll never know. thankfully).

and to tie it all up here - that still doesn't mean this contract is bad. i personally don't think so - and if it shows that it is I think the Leafs know how to get rid of it relatively quickly.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Zaitsev was a team worst -22 +/- on the season and also worst -4 in the playoffs. He was also tied for 7th worst among all Dmen league wide in this category.

No Leafs Dman was on the ice for more goals against last year, and worst goal differential at ES.

Lets chalk this up to being a rookie this year and we see a much more reliable and steady Dman in the future.
 

Nooodles

Registered User
May 7, 2010
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Zaitsev was a team worst -22 +/- on the season and also worst -4 in the playoffs. He was also tied for 7th worst among all Dmen league wide in this category.

No Leafs Dman was on the ice for more goals against last year, and worst goal differential at ES.

Thanks Don.

+/-: meaningless stat ever
 

bunjay

Registered User
Nov 9, 2008
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Zaitsev looked pretty good with Gardiner in the last few weeks of the regular season. Better than he'd looked with Rielly. I can forgive him for looking bad against the Caps coming back from a concussion. $4.5 is a steal for someone who can play in your top 4 for those 7 years, and I imagine he will unless it's because of injury.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Leafs Home Board
Thanks Don.

+/-: meaningless stat ever

Jake Gardiner was a +24 (on the Ice for 24 more GF than GA at 5v5), while Zaitsev was a -22 (on the Ice for 22 more GA than GF at 5v5).

That's a +46 goal differential in Gardiner's favour among teammates.

When Gardiner is on the ice the Leafs are scoring more goals and when Zaitsev is on the ice the opposition is depositing pucks in Leafs net.
 

Guy Boucher

Registered User
Oct 22, 2008
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Jake Gardiner was a +24 (on the Ice for 24 more GF than GA at 5v5), while Zaitsev was a -22 (on the Ice for 22 more GA than GF at 5v5).

That's a +46 goal differential in Gardiner's favour among teammates.

When Gardiner is on the ice the Leafs are scoring more goals and when Zaitsev is on the ice the opposition is depositing pucks in Leafs net.

A couple of years ago Gardiner was -23.

I guess we should have thrown him overboard since it means he is a terrible player?
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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A couple of years ago Gardiner was -23.

I guess we should have thrown him overboard since it means he is a terrible player?

It means he has improved and we hope Zaitsev can turn things around and a + player next year.

It was a adjustment from the KHL to the NHL so its understandable he would struggle in defensive zone coverage as a rookie. There were games this year where Zaitsev would end the night a -4 on occasion.

His new contract shows management believes he can turn this around as he brings other positives.

 

Walshy7

Registered User
Sep 18, 2016
25,326
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Toronto
Zaitsev was a team worst -22 +/- on the season and also worst -4 in the playoffs. He was also tied for 7th worst among all Dmen league wide in this category.

No Leafs Dman was on the ice for more goals against last year, and worst goal differential at ES.

Lets chalk this up to being a rookie this year and we see a much more reliable and steady Dman in the future.

I agree Zaitsev and Morgan rielly should be shot into the sun, how come you aren't mentioning rielly though? Only 2 less goals against?. As another poster said gardiner was -23 a couple of years ago. What a stupid argument
 

rdawg1234

Registered User
Jul 2, 2012
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0
+/- is a pretty meaningless stat, you'll often see guys go from -20 in some years to +15 the next, too many factors part of the stat, it doesn't count PK/PP, could be on the ice for half a second and get a - etc.

Ovechkin for example was a -35 in 13-14, then the next year a +10. Other years a +45, it's all over the place.

Zaitsev had some great stretches, I dont take much from his concussion filled playoff games.

he's a solid top 4 D-man throughout his KHL career and first year in the NHL.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,099
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Leafs Home Board
I agree Zaitsev and Morgan rielly should be shot into the sun, how come you aren't mentioning rielly though? Only 2 less goals against?. As another poster said gardiner was -23 a couple of years ago. What a stupid argument

Gardiner was a -23 and contributed to a 30th and last place finish = bad +\- on a bad team.
 

Vexed

Magic Marner
Feb 4, 2011
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Hard to name a more useless stat for evaluating individual players than +\-

You can take an awful lot away from huge differentials, its just not so great when discussing small differences. A 46 pt differential is telling no matter how you want to spin the stat.
 

Throw More Waffles

Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
Oct 9, 2015
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A couple of years ago Gardiner was -23.

I guess we should have thrown him overboard since it means he is a terrible player?

No. But maybe, when a rookie has a mediocre year and hasn't come close to proving himself... maybe... just maybe... it's best not to set him up for life with $30 million and 7 year contract.
 

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
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Skövde, Sweden
You can take an awful lot away from huge differentials, its just not so great when discussing small differences. A 46 pt differential is telling no matter how you want to spin the stat.

I mean, sure. But it's still way less effective than several alternatives, have way too much confounding elements to it, and the individual players isn't even the driving factor of their +/-.

There's simply no reason to use that metric. Even if there's a huge differential, you are better off looking at other numbers to get more, better and more reliable information.
 

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