Management Threads | Structure. Standards. Habits.

[Mr. Canucklehead]

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[PuckMunchkin]

If Dubas is taking ~2 years off... His return could coincide with when our retool has ran its course.

 

[strattonius]

If Dubas is taking ~2 years off... His return could coincide with when our retool has ran its course.

Over-rated.

Blew his wad on Tavares and created a poor internal CAP structure. Never had the CAP to put the team over the top.

Had a team that was consistently in win now mode and dumped picks every year to make that push - team never got over the hump. It's not that the philosophy to spend assets wasn't justified...it's just that he never did it successfully.

I really don't get the infatuation with this guy. Toronto media has propped him up to be something that he isn't. He has no impressive achievements in an industry that demands excellence. Someone please hold my hand and explain to me why I'm supposed to think Kyle Dubas is some managerial savant.

 

[me2]

Over-rated.

Blew his wad on Tavares and created a poor internal CAP structure. Never had the CAP to put the team over the top.

Had a team that was consistently in win now mode and dumped picks every year to make that push - team never got over the hump. It's not that the philosophy to spend assets wasn't justified...it's just that he never did it successfully.

I really don't get the infatuation with this guy. Toronto media has propped him up to be something that he isn't. He has no impressive achievements in an industry that demands excellence. Someone please hold my hand and explain to why I'm supposed to think Kyle Dubas is some managerial savant.

He's no savant but when far worse somehow find jobs he's a solid option. I don't think he's top 5, probably 10-15. You could do a lot worse

 

[kcunac]

He kind of got screwed with COVID. If the cap kept going up like it did pre-COVID his core's contracts would not have looked so bad and he could have had more cap to support the core. With the limited space he had, he signed some good bargain basement contracts.

Based on the Shanahan press conference it sounds like the Leafs were going to re-up Dubas but Dubas had some doubts and then asked for more money when a deal was already made.

 

[Intangibos]

Over-rated.

Blew his wad on Tavares and created a poor internal CAP structure. Never had the CAP to put the team over the top.

Had a team that was consistently in win now mode and dumped picks every year to make that push - team never got over the hump. It's not that the philosophy to spend assets wasn't justified...it's just that he never did it successfully.

I really don't get the infatuation with this guy. Toronto media has propped him up to be something that he isn't. He has no impressive achievements in an industry that demands excellence. Someone please hold my hand and explain to me why I'm supposed to think Kyle Dubas is some managerial savant.

They have run up against some great teams, and Florida is looking like the 2012 Kings right now. Maybe some of those early exits aren't as indicative of a poorly built team as we might think.

In terms of dumping picks, if he is willing to move on from some of his stars he would be recouping a lot of picks pretty quickly. His dismissal may end up looking eerily similar to the Gillis firing in a few years depending on the direction Shanahan goes.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Over-rated.

Blew his wad on Tavares and created a poor internal CAP structure. Never had the CAP to put the team over the top.

Had a team that was consistently in win now mode and dumped picks every year to make that push - team never got over the hump. It's not that the philosophy to spend assets wasn't justified...it's just that he never did it successfully.

I really don't get the infatuation with this guy. Toronto media has propped him up to be something that he isn't. He has no impressive achievements in an industry that demands excellence. Someone please hold my hand and explain to me why I'm supposed to think Kyle Dubas is some managerial savant.

I wonder how much of the Tavares signing is from pressure above him? A star center who is a UFA, wanting to sign with the hometown team, maybe he was told to sign him at all cost? The cap hit is still an issue, so Dubas cannot escape criticism. But that contract really through things off cap-wise for the Leafs.

Aside from that and the overpayment for Foligno, I don't think he made too many major mistakes? The Marleau contract wasn't signed by him, IIRC, so it is hard to blame him for the cost of dumping that contract. You can blame him for needing to dump it, in a round about way, to sign Tavares, while his star players were up for new contract.

He made some good depth acquisitions, and he was able to build up a very good regular season team. Can you blame him for Matthews/Marner not stepping up in the playoff?

I don't think Dubas is a savant, but in a league where Benning gets 8 years as GM, and Chiarelli has been GM for 2 teams and in the running for an opening again. I think you can do worse than Dubas for sure.

 

[valkynax]

Dubas got his share of the blame for sure, but again, I maintain that this was way more about the four star chokers than Dubas himself.

Play like boss, get the main stream media hype up the ass, then turn into utter manure when it mattered the most.

 

[Jyrki21]

Over-rated.

Blew his wad on Tavares and created a poor internal CAP structure. Never had the CAP to put the team over the top.

I'm curious if you think "cap" is an acronym.

 

[Hit the post]

They have run up against some great teams, and Florida is looking like the 2012 Kings right now. Maybe some of those early exits aren't as indicative of a poorly built team as we might think.

In terms of dumping picks, if he is willing to move on from some of his stars he would be recouping a lot of picks pretty quickly. His dismissal may end up looking eerily similar to the Gillis firing in a few years depending on the direction Shanahan goes.

It would be prophetic if Jim Benning gets hired as GM of the Maple Leafs. We all know how that story will end.

 

[valkynax]

I'm curious if you think "cap" is an acronym.

CAP is gotta be the vigorously emphatic form of cap.

 

[Hit the post]

I'm curious if you think "cap" is an acronym.

It's also the name this Marvel superhero is also known as:

 

[CanucksSayEh]

I'm curious if you think "cap" is an acronym.

Cant afford players

 

[Jyrki21]

Cant afford players

Canucks ain't paying.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Over-rated.

Blew his wad on Tavares and created a poor internal CAP structure. Never had the CAP to put the team over the top.

This was not the problem.

It is Matthews Tavares and Marner not for what ever reason being the right character mix to compete together.

AND they are victims of the current playoff format.

We seem to be in a similar situation. Except our seasons end before december.

Had a team that was consistently in win now mode and dumped picks every year to make that push - team never got over the hump. It's not that the philosophy to spend assets wasn't justified...it's just that he never did it successfully.

He did just fine. They just werent able to get over the hump.

I really don't get the infatuation with this guy. Toronto media has propped him up to be something that he isn't. He has no impressive achievements in an industry that demands excellence. Someone please hold my hand and explain to me why I'm supposed to think Kyle Dubas is some managerial savant.

We dont get "Toronto media" in finland.

He is a guy who is where he is on merit alone. Not because he played hockey with Shanahan 15 yrs ago.

 

[God]

can i just say that gary mason interview was hilarious

franky trying to tell us that benning, a guy who can barely string 5 words together, was some cunning linguist in convincing him the canucks were 1 big move away from winning the big prize? LOL

 

[tradervik]

I glanced at Dubas's transaction history on CapFriendly and my take is that his major achievements were signing/extending Tavares, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Reilly for a close to $50 million cap, and over $300 million total contract value. Those contracts combined with the flat cap really put him in a tough spot. He never solved the goaltending issue (ala Brian Burke) and he made a lot of trades that were meh to poor for the most part (ala Dave Nonis).

You can't blame Dubas for getting screwed by the flat cap but I think it's fair to say he failed to construct a competitive playoff roster around his core. Was his best trade a 3rd for Schenn?

 

[strattonius]

This was not the problem.

It is Matthews Tavares and Marner not for what ever reason being the right character mix to compete together.

AND they are victims of the current playoff format.

We seem to be in a similar situation. Except our seasons end before december.

3 players making over 30M in CAP and you're talking about how they are the wrong mix 'for what ever reason'.

The reason is right in front of you. They are overpaid and have created a poor internal CAP structure. This was all created by Dubas who has been bent over in any meaningful negotiation he's had with his top players.

Do you remember how he handled Nylander? Kadri trade? Trade for Foligno? Sandin out the door? Horrible decisions on defense and goaltending this season? The guy threw and entire draft year at depth defensemen this trade deadline and it wasn't even remotely close to enough.

Over. Rated.

 

[Javaman]

can i just say that gary mason interview was hilarious

franky trying to tell us that benning, a guy who can barely string 5 words together, was some cunning linguist in convincing him the canucks were 1 big move away from winning the big prize? LOL

This is why the Canucks are probably doomed to failure as long as the Aquilini group owns the Canucks.

Good god, how dumb do you have to be to get conned by Benning of all people?

Edit: Oh yeah, apparently Luigi, the patriarch, had a soft spot for Benning. Just in case you thought getting rid of Benning was going to solve the problem.

 

[tantalum]

can i just say that gary mason interview was hilarious

franky trying to tell us that benning, a guy who can barely string 5 words together, was some cunning linguist in convincing him the canucks were 1 big move away from winning the big prize? LOL

Well it likely went something like this.

Linden: I’ve been talking to a lot of hockey minds and we messed up. We need to take a step back and build properly.

Frankie: Jim and Wormtongue what do you think?

Jim: we’re ah ummm close!

Frankie: how close?

Wormtongue to Jim (whispering): say 1 move say 1 big move.

Jim: One move? Ya, ummm one move.

Frankie: Really? One move to get a cup baby! Trevor don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[God]

This is why the Canucks are probably doomed to failure as long as the Aquilini group owns the Canucks.

Good god, how dumb do you have to be to get conned by Benning of all people?

Edit: Oh yeah, apparently Luigi, the patriarch, had a soft spot for Benning. Just in case you thought getting rid of Benning was going to solve the problem.

the luigi thing is franky trying to blame his dad and absolve himself of any responsibility

no shot in hell luigi builds a real estate empire and "likes" jet black jim

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

delete

 

[me2]

3 players making over 30M in CAP and you're talking about how they are the wrong mix 'for what ever reason'.

The reason is right in front of you. They are overpaid and have created a poor internal CAP structure. This was all created by Dubas who has been bent over in any meaningful negotiation he's had with his top players.

Do you remember how he handled Nylander? Kadri trade? Trade for Foligno? Sandin out the door? Horrible decisions on defense and goaltending this season? The guy threw and entire draft year at depth defensemen this trade deadline and it wasn't even remotely close to enough.

Over. Rated.

It could be worse. We'd have throw in an entire draft year of picks to get rid of Benning's bottom pairing D. Probably two years

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

I'm curious if you think "cap" is an acronym.

I wanted him to all caps TOP

 

[PuckMunchkin]

3 players making over 30M in CAP and you're talking about how they are the wrong mix 'for what ever reason'.

The reason is right in front of you. They are overpaid and have created a poor internal CAP structure. This was all created by Dubas who has been bent over in any meaningful negotiation he's had with his top players.

I disagree.

Paying your stars is not the problem.

Do you remember how he handled Nylander? Kadri trade? Trade for Foligno? Sandin out the door? Horrible decisions on defense and goaltending this season? The guy threw and entire draft year at depth defensemen this trade deadline and it wasn't even remotely close to enough.

Over. Rated.

I disagree.

The Nylander deal obviously looks fantastic now.

Kadri had to go. He IS suspended every playoffs and at the time he was being replaced by Tavares and was being paid too much for a 3rd line center... He had a NTC that really limited what Dubas could do there.

Foligno trade was meh. What about it...? Pretty standard stuff. Overpay in the trade to get the 50% retained.

Sandin trade was supposed to be what we did with Horvat or Tampa did with Miller. Acquire assets and flip said assets at the deadline for more immediate help. They couldnt find a trade partner


Ok here is a shocking concept. Good teams these days actually employ 2-3 goalies that can start for you instead of having a "work horse" that they ride to the ground. Dubas was transitioning in to this line of thinking this year but had both his guys go down. While it should be expected at this point with Murray, Samsonov does not have a long history of injury issues. Also if you think the leafs failed in the playoffs because of goaltending... Samsonov outplayed Vasilevski in the 1st round.

The problem was that Matthews went from a top 10 center in the league to a ghost...

They had a fantastic trade deadline. They were a legitimate cup favorite behind Boston.




Can you give me an example of a GM whose work you prefer and why you think his moves were better? If your reply is just because someone won the Stanley cup don't even bother.