Makar v Hughes

[Signupnow]

Wow. Profound argument.

Sometimes you do not have to look deeper than what is obvious. When mack was out last year makar had about 1 even strenght point in 20 games or so.

 

[avsfan9]

Then why do Makars stats suck when MacKinnon isn't on the ice, and why does MacKinnons' possession stats get worse when Makar is on the

I don't think he does. You can change mackinnon to whatever centre sharks is rolling with these days i do not predict his point totals will look as good.

but Hughes would if he didn’t have Miller and Peterson?

 

[Rowlet]

Because Makars career has been a fluke and his

but Hughes would if he didn’t have Miller and Peterson?

Hughes' possession stats improve when he's playing away from Miller and Pettersson

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

Hughes alone is about 57%, with Pettersson 55%, with Miller 53%

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

MacKinnon without Makar has possession stats of around 60% avg, with Makar it's about 55%, Makar without MacKinnon is around 45%.

 

[Breakers]

Im just glad Hughes is finally gonna get one

i dont care if he never gets another one

its just about the recognition that has been lacking for so damn long
especially for those old idiot GM's on the east coast with those quotes this off-season

 

[Signupnow]

I think hudges can do more with less hence why i go with him. It will be interesting to see if makar will decline when age start to catch up with mack.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

makar - hobey baker, calder, conn smythe, norris (1 win, 3 nominations)
hughes - no awards, calder nomination.

they aren't comparable yet. at the very least wait until the season unfolds. probably have to give it another 2 or 3 seasons.

the best comparable to makar to date is adam fox.

fox - norris (1 win, 2 nominations)

Awards aren't the be all end all. Especially when it comes to insane award bias. Hughes could've easily had a norris nomination last year if he didn't play on a crappy west coast canadian team. And he couldn't possibly win a smythe without a decent team. Hobey baker doesn't really do it for me, Adam Gaudette and ben hutton say hi.

I think having them as even after Hughes' back to back great seasons is a fair take. Fox is right up there as well, in fact I think he's better than Mak this year and the injury is the only thing hiding that. But hughes has hit a ceiling offensively that Fox hasn't, and is close to his level defensively.

 

[BB6]

Hughes is having a stellar season, but Makar has already proven more in a shorter time

Proven more in a shorter time by being a year older than Hughes or is because they were rookies the same season?

Or is this because hes played fewer games due to injury?

 

[dirtydanglez]

Awards aren't the be all end all. Especially when it comes to insane award bias. Hughes could've easily had a norris nomination last year if he didn't play on a crappy west coast canadian team. And he couldn't possibly win a smythe without a decent team. Hobey baker doesn't really do it for me, Adam Gaudette and ben hutton say hi.

I think having them as even after Hughes' back to back great seasons is a fair take. Fox is right up there as well, in fact I think he's better than Mak this year and the injury is the only thing hiding that. But hughes has hit a ceiling offensively that Fox hasn't, and is close to his level defensively.

norris wins and nominations mean a lot. sure there is bias but the best of the best usually end up at the top. the fact that makar has a win and 3 nominations and quinn doesn't have any of that speaks to how far ahead makar is. quinn is having an incredible season, even better than makar but you can't write off makar and fox's consistency to make it to the top year in, year out. quinn hasn't been able to do that yet which is the biggest knock against him. consistency when it comes to defense is very important. having them as even is crazy until quinn can prove he can have the same consistency as the other two.

 

[Hennessy]

Coffey vs Bourque.

 

[HolyHagelin]

or like i said, adam fox is the better comparable

I think the comparison was intended more stylistically? Fox plays a weird game not comparable to other top d men. He is all mind games, stop/starts, sucker fakes, and rope a dope.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Aside from injury concerns I don´t see how this is clearly not Makar.

3 straight Norris nominations in 4 NHL seasons, probably 4th after the season is done
Norris
Smythe
Cup
Calder

norris wins and nominations mean a lot. sure there is bias but the best of the best usually end up at the top. the fact that makar has a win and 3 nominations and quinn doesn't have any of that speaks to how far ahead makar is. quinn is having an incredible season, even better than makar but you can't write off makar and fox's consistency to make it to the top year in, year out. quinn hasn't been able to do that yet which is the biggest knock against him. consistency when it comes to defense is very important. having them as even is crazy until quinn can prove he can have the same consistency as the other two.

Makar had one hell of a season and he deserved those awards and the Cup.

However, awards garnered in previous seasons add up to diddly squat when it comes to new seasons. You can't carry them with you on the ice and they don't help you skate faster nor do they help you defend better nor do they help you score more goals. They cannot influence your game in any way for the good or the bad. They do look nice in your trophy case as reminders of seasons gone by though.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Makar had one hell of a season and he deserved those awards and the Cup.

However, awards garnered in previous seasons add up to diddly squat when it comes to new seasons. You can't carry them with you on the ice and they don't help you skate faster nor do they help you defend better nor do they help you score more goals. They cannot influence your game in any way for the good or the bad. They do look nice in your trophy case as reminders of seasons gone by though.

i dont see it that way at all. the awards show you have reached that level of play and the yearly nominations show you can play at that level consistently. makar doesn't go back to square one just because it's a new season

 

[Chairman Maouth]

i dont see it that way at all. the awards show you have reached that level of play and the yearly nominations show you can play at that level consistently. makar doesn't go back to square one just because it's a new season

Of course he does. Awards are meaningless when it comes to on-ice play. They are a record of the past, not the future.

Can you use them to predict that a player will play well next season because he won an award this season? Of course you can, but it's not a guarantee. An award has nothing to do with the player actually playing the game. It does not affect on-ice play in any way, shape or form. It's a record of how you played, not your ability to play now. Awards are not magic amulets that improve one's on-ice play.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Can you use them to predict that a player will play well next season because he won an award this season? Of course you can, but awards aren't even necessary to do that.

exactly. that's part of it

 

[Chairman Maouth]

exactly. that's part of it

You and I aren't going to agree but I respect your opinion.

 

[2for1PizzaPastuh]

Sometimes you do not have to look deeper than what is obvious. When mack was out last year makar had about 1 even strenght point in 20 games or so.

very interesting stat

 

[Rowlet]

Hughes has coughed up the puck more though. As far as who has held on to the the puck longer, I don't know, I'd need stats for that which I can't seem to find.

here's the updated stats


Hughes has held the puck in the offensive zone for half an hour more than Makar

 

[missionAvs]

Frail Cale is on the downswing of his career while Captain Quinn is just not taking the reigns as the Nucks chief.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

If you had to pick one guy to fire a shot from the point with everything on the line I'd take Makar. He does seem like a top shooter from the blue line.

For actually playing hockey I'll take Hughes. The results are better in both ends. You can find a league minimum defender to play the PK and throw a hit once every ten games, which is the only other reason people seem to prefer Makar.

Makar is a top highlight reel player. The shooting the hits (which are admittedly good for an offensive D) and the smooth skating all look like perfection on YouTube.

If you want substance you take Hughes.

 

[Petey O]

here's the updated stats


Hughes has held the puck in the offensive zone for half an hour more than Makar

Cale also has 69.56% offensive zone starts vs Hughes' 61.62%.

It's really not particularly close. They're completely different types of players.

If you want a possession defenseman who is going to absolutely run a game and not get tired, and play better shutdown D, then you take Hughes.

If you want flash, the ability to go end to end and score, and a few more goals, take Makar.

Both incredible players but for the Canucks' needs, it's 100% Hughes. For another team, they may prefer Makar.

Hughes also plays a style with his edge work/evasion that is less prone to injury, imo.

 

[Petey O]

makar - hobey baker, calder, conn smythe, norris (1 win, 3 nominations)
hughes - no awards, calder nomination.

they aren't comparable yet. at the very least wait until the season unfolds. probably have to give it another 2 or 3 seasons.

the best comparable to makar to date is adam fox.

fox - norris (1 win, 2 nominations)

Put Hughes on the Avs and he has all of Makar's accomplishments.

 

[strattonius]

The Avs make the playoffs without Makar.

The Canucks miss the playoffs without Hughes.

 

[avsfan9]

Put Hughes on the Avs and he has all of Makar's accomplishments.

Put Makar on Vancouver and he’s being traded for a 7 th round pick or that horrible contract is being bought out. Everyone was right all along he’s a product of his team. They should have kept Tyson Barrie. Can’t wait till Makar leaves for Calgary, piece of f***ing shit.

 

[Petey O]

Put Makar on Vancouver and he’s being traded for a 7 th round pick or that horrible contract is being bought out. Everyone was right all along he’s a product of his team. They should have kept Tyson Barrie. Can’t wait till Makar leaves for Calgary

Hughes isn't reliant on a franchise top 2 center in the league for his success. Look at Makar's numbers with and without MacKinnon. They aren't pretty.

Pettersson has actually had a down year and hasn't looked like his last season's self, and he's obviously a tier or two below MacKinnon this season. Despite this, Hughes still somehow has 91 points.

Nobody is denying Makar is great, but the numbers say that he's a major beneficiary of the team around him.

Also, for opposing team fans who used PDO as a knock against the Canucks all year, they should be able to look at the underlying numbers this season and know that Hughes has absolutely blown Makar out of the water in all important metrics.

The Avs make the playoffs without Makar.

The Canucks miss the playoffs without Hughes.

Yep. Quinn Hughes IS the Vancouver Canucks. The Canucks don't have a MacKinnon he can play with. If they did, Hughes likely has over 100 points right now.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Put Hughes on the Avs and he has all of Makar's accomplishments.

he's on a team that is as good or better. so he'll have no excuses after these playoffs.