MacKinnon for the Hart

[tucker3434]

If the vote was today MacKinnon would win because the Art Ross race is trivially close, and MacKinnon leads in goals, 5v5 points, and non-EN points. I don't think it would be all that close, because his name is Nathan MacKinnon and he doesn't have one yet. Anybody on the fence between the two, would likely fall that way.

MacKinnon is deserving. If you had a blind vote with players x, y and z, the one with MacKinnon's stat line would still take it. It'd just be closer.

 

[Toby91ca]

Let's be honest with ourselves. Canada rep will win they don't want a Russian winning it lol.

How did the former Russian winners (including Kucherov) sneak past this in the past?

 

[J T Money]

How did the former Russian winners (including Kucherov) sneak past this in the past?

They won prior to the war in Ukraine.

 

[Shanahanigans]

Simply put, he's the most exciting player to watch this year. If I had to show a non hockey fan one player this year to get them hooked on the sport, it would be Mackinnon. His 3 goals against Minnesota the other night, what can you even say? Mcdavid often looks like he's playing a different sport than his peers. This season, to me, it's Mackinnon who looks most like an alien out there. There is no way an NHL player should be able to fly by NHL defenseman like he's been. It's absurd.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Regardless of any voters swayed by MacKinnon being "due", he is completely deserving of the Hart this season.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Feel like both are "deserving" and could argue about being "due" as well. Kucherov has definitely been the guy in Tampa all these years as well. He's not a center though where most of the play naturally comes through him. Tampa kind of forces it to go through him because he's so damn good at any speed.

 

[Kranix]

Look at the gap between Kuch and his teammates.

 

[AslanRH]

Look at the gap between Kuch and his teammates.

agreed, this really should be a race between Kuch, Pasta, and Breadman

 

[Matsun]

I think both MacKinnon and Kucherov has a strong case for the Hart and I think the best solution would be to let them split the Hart/Lindsey. Also if Kucherov should be docked points for scoring the most empty net points shouldn't he also be rewarded for scoring the most difficult points?

MacKinnon vs TOP 10	GP	G	A	P
NYR	2	1	0	1
DAL	4	3	4	7
CAR	2	1	1	2
BOS	2	0	2	2
TAM	2	0	4	4
VAN	3	1	3	4
FLO	2	0	1	1
WIN	2	1	3	4
EDM	2	0	2	2
TOR	2	1	4	5
	23	8	24	32

Kucherov vs TOP 10	GP	G	A	P
NYR	3	2	5	7
DAL	2	1	2	3
CAR	2	2	5	7
BOS	4	3	3	6
COL	2	2	2	4
VAN	2	2	0	2
FLO	3	2	2	4
WIN	2	1	2	3
EDM	2	3	3	6
TOR	3	4	6	10
	25	22	30	52

 

[Toby91ca]

Look at the gap between Kuch and his teammates.

I've looked, not as much as the gap between MacKinnon and his teammates (depending on how you look at it)....but if you look at it in totality, it's pretty similar. Kucherov has a bigger gap between himself and #2, but Mackinnon has the bigger gap when you look at top 5-6. If you look at goals and points scored by the whole team Kucherov vs. rest of team and Mackinnon vs. rest of the team are pretty similar.

 

[VainGretzky]

hHe looks to be on McDavid's level with how he exposes dmen on the rush Kucherov who seems to have better vision ,but Mack deserves it this year

 

[Artemi Panarin]

hHe looks to be on McDavid's level with how he exposes dmen on the rush Kucherov who seems to have better vision ,but Mack deserves it this year

Nah, its still Kuch

 

[dmac7719]

I think both MacKinnon and Kucherov has a strong case for the Hart and I think the best solution would be to let them split the Hart/Lindsey. Also if Kucherov should be docked points for scoring the most empty net points shouldn't he also be rewarded for scoring the most difficult points?

MacKinnon vs TOP 10	GP	G	A	P
NYR	2	1	0	1
DAL	4	3	4	7
CAR	2	1	1	2
BOS	2	0	2	2
TAM	2	0	4	4
VAN	3	1	3	4
FLO	2	0	1	1
WIN	2	1	3	4
EDM	2	0	2	2
TOR	2	1	4	5
	23	8	24	32

Kucherov vs TOP 10	GP	G	A	P
NYR	3	2	5	7
DAL	2	1	2	3
CAR	2	2	5	7
BOS	4	3	3	6
COL	2	2	2	4
VAN	2	2	0	2
FLO	3	2	2	4
WIN	2	1	2	3
EDM	2	3	3	6
TOR	3	4	6	10
	25	22	30	52

Were each of those teams in the top 10 at the time each player played them?

 

[Kranix]

agreed, this really should be a race between Kuch, Pasta, and Breadman

I wasn't suggesting Mack isn't in the race. It's an insane race this year.

 

[Toby91ca]

There isn’t any evidence directly with the voting of the Hart trophy (no Russian has been worthy since Kucherov won’t it prior) at the moment, but you can find evidence of bias against Russians via the media, Olympics and other sporting leagues etc.

That's fine....but I think if MacKinnon wins and Kucherov finishes 2nd, I don't think we can really point to media bias too much as there are perfectly good reasons MacKinnon should win, etc. If Kucherov finishes 3rd or 4th or 5th, then yeah, maybe that starts too look strange. For now, I'll withhold judgment.

 

[Toby91ca]

Were each of those teams in the top 10 at the time each player played them?

And even if they were, it doesn't tell the full story....the best teams in the league don't always play their best games every night. Some have different game plans as well.....focus all efforts on this star player to limit him or ignore star player and focus on rest of the team. There's all sorts of variables. I mean, you could look at it as well as say "if you are so good, why couldn't you score against this team that isn't very good?" So yeah, non-sense in my mind to look at that type of stuff.....points are points....so ignore the empty net stuff as well. There will be occasions where you have some players out there with EN and they are standing in the neutral zone or cheating all the time to get there in hopes of a loose puck coming so they can just get points and not helping defend the lead at all, but that is few and far between where it should be meaningless.

 

[Rude Dog]

Probably

 

[CDN24]

Look at the gap between Kuch and his teammates.

That gap may not be the best argument. Maybe Mack deserves it because he makes his teammates better. Drouin just put up career numbers playing with Mack.

 

[Kranix]

That gap may not be the best argument. Maybe Mack deserves it because he makes his teammates better. Drouin just put up career numbers playing with Mack.

ah yes, the intangible, "made his teammates better"

 

[J T Money]

That's fine....but I think if MacKinnon wins and Kucherov finishes 2nd, I don't think we can really point to media bias too much as there are perfectly good reasons MacKinnon should win, etc. If Kucherov finishes 3rd or 4th or 5th, then yeah, maybe that starts too look strange. For now, I'll withhold judgment.

I think Mac wins it unless Kucherov gets 100 assists and hits 150 points for the all time record for wingers.

 

[CDN24]

ah yes, the intangible, "made his teammates better"

No made the gap between he and his linemates smaller by making them better. Drouin being the perfect example to highlight it.

Over the last 4 years Drouin has 17 G and 70A for 87 points across 163 games. This year he has 19G and 56 points playing with Mack. That is tangible.

Look at his impact on lehkonen's numbers if you want a second tangible example

 

[Toby91ca]

It's pretty obvious. There are people that think Russian players should be banned . They have already banned Russian National teams.

In other words.....there is no evidence. In 2022, why did Kaprisov get more votes than Draisaitl, Stamkos, J.T. Miller? Or Ovechkin more than Stamkos and J.T. Miller. Not saying I disagree with them getting more votes, but narrative could be made why you'd vote for the others and if you have that anti-Russian bias, should be pretty easy no? Heck, how could Kaprisov (75pts) finished higher in voting last year vs. Crosby (93pts) if the anti-Russian bias was kicked in?

I know these aren't examples of guys in top 3 voting, etc.....but there is ZERO evidence of the bias at this point.....not saying there won't be, but until I see a potential bias in voting because someone is Russian, I'll simply state what I see, which is no bias. People will call it out though with comments like "the only way Kucherov doesn't win the hart is because he's Russian and not Canadian" - no, that's BS, it's because it's a very close call at this point and a vote is just as warranted for someone else.

 

[HockeyFan100]

ah yes, the intangible, "made his teammates better"

Yeah I think making your teammates better is something an MVP does. Crazy.

 

[lionsDen]

Yea as if there are no petty Av fans in here .

I wasn’t one of those , I gave kuch props and congratulated him. I was happy someone other than mcdavid was gonna win it. Only to see Tampa fans just being generally obnoxious… why? I’m gonna guess because we beat them in the Stanley cup finals. @CanadianShark do you understand how?

And I’ll repeat myself here I don’t care about individual awards. I want a Stanley cup

 

[Kranix]

Yeah I think making your teammates better is something an MVP does. Crazy.

To use it as an argument for one megastar over another is pretty dense don't you think?