LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016, 2nd, WPG) XII

[93LEAFS]

He scored 27 goals in the FEL last year (including playoffs). So a little over half of his goals were on the pp. I, personally, would not say the "vast" amount of his goals were scored on the powerplay.
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Maybe not vast but a disproportionate amount. Outside of defenceman, no top scoring forward is that reliant on PP goals (no forward with over 30 goals who had over 50% on the PP last year was Iginla), year before only Pavelski(who played with a top 5 passer in the league). Laine's clearly a special talent, but his numbers where quite heavily fueled by the man-advantage. Doesn't mean he can't become an elite scorer at ES or there weren't reasons for his dependency on PP points.

 

[Quiksilver*]

Don't keep me in suspense. What is an "acceptable" % of points to come on the power play?

The top scorers last year were under 35% Laine is a different type player though, so the 40+% wouldn't concern me and it shouldn't concern others either.

Kane -35%
Benn - 34%
Sid - 28%
Jumbo - 35%
EK - 32%

 

[Whileee]

Jets PP can use some help. Laine might be just the ticket. I like stats, but it doesn't take very much time watching him at this level to realize his talent level and physical tools. If he has a good work ethic he'll be a high impact NHLer, just as pretty much every scout expects.

 

[Hagged]

i think considering about what 80 percent of the game is 5 on 5...
That's not ideal

Eichel sure would have been a disappointment had he scored four more points on the PP during the season?

 

[Fishy]

Maybe not vast but a disproportionate amount. Outside of defenceman, no top scoring forward is that reliant on PP goals (no forward with over 30 goals who had over 50% on the PP last year was Iginla), year before only Pavelski(who played with a top 5 passer in the league). Laine's clearly a special talent, but his numbers where quite heavily fueled by the man-advantage. Doesn't mean he can't become an elite scorer at ES or there weren't reasons for his dependency on PP points.

There was a stretch there that Ovi was pretty dependent on the PP for his goals/points

Whatever happens, regular season can't get here fast enough for me!

 

[93LEAFS]

There was a stretch there that Ovi was pretty dependent on the PP for his goals/points

Whatever happens, regular season can't get here fast enough for me!

Ovi came close a couple times, never broke 50% of his goals that way though. shortened lock-out year it was exactly 50%. Either way, he has the potential to be an elite player at ES, we aren't Marc-Andre Bergeron, and against his age group and at the WC he wasn't at reliant on PP production. I'd also add, while Scheifele and Wheeler look good, I don't think the Jets have a PP that can't open things up as much as Washington's does for Laine. Either way though, I do think even if he doesn't put up crazy PP numbers this year his presence will improve it. It will be hard to cheat coverage toward Buff with Laine there. The presence of both of them will force the defence to open up passing lanes to one of them.

 

[BB88]

No, but I also don't see what bashing Marner has anything to do with the Laine thread, and it is a repeated tactic by some Jets fans. Which is why I brought up Ehlers not being put on the weakest team (except maybe the Czech's at the tourny). I also don't see who Trouba should play over.

I've already made my point on Laine at this tournament/exhibition games clear. He needs to work on his movement and reads to find space, on small ice. Teams are cutting off that passing lane, he relies on to get his shot, making it very difficult for him. Part of the reason Brett Hull and Ovi have had such success is they have usually been surrounded by elite passers/playmakers who create these lanes (Oates, Backstrom and now Kuztetsov). I know Ovi scored a bunch before he had Backstrom (or an elite playmaker) but his game was much more explosive and off the rush at that point, his modern PP destruction has been fueled by having great passers on the PP with him (add Green previously to this list) or elite-shooters on the opposite side to take advantage (Semin and Green). No defense in the NHL has close to the overall mobility of Sweden, but teams will roll coverages to cut off that Laine, which then pushes Laine back to the side boards and forced to dish it off or penetrate the defense himself. Finland to get the best out of Laine, need to one diagram their powerplay better, and two create movement by the other players to open that passing lane for Laine. While Sweden's D is obviously elite, I don't think what teams are doing to them or Finland is un-doable by lesser defenseman with proper coaching and systems.The positive is, that this will also create holes on the other-side for a player to exploit. Long-term I think Laine is a smart enough player to get by, there are obvious reasons he is held in high-regard. I've said many times I would of easily taken Laine at two, and he's clearly at a minimum the 2nd best drafted prospect in the world.

I think the reason for that Marner comments was LeafsRockForBabcock, it seems like LeafsRock has 1 goal in Laine related threads and it's getting boring.

Laine has elite hands, elite shot, and vision on a 6'4 frame, it's going to take time but I'm confident he'll figure it out.
With the Jets he'll also be playing with Scheifele, Ehlers, Wheeler, Buff so he should have a high end playmaker on the ice at the same time.

I hate that Marjamaki has a slow, boring style, they allow Sweden to set up and you go nowhere with a team like that if you allow that.
That drop pass on the pp needs to be cut off.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Personally I don't care if a player scores most of their goals on the PP. Goals are goals and with the current structure of the league, there is more than enough penalties to go around.

 

[Loffer]

Laine will put up a clinic come the second half of the season and the adjustment period is over for the "one timer part", at least. So, relax guys and take it easy. There is nothing that you can do.

 

[Whileee]

Ovi came close a couple times, never broke 50% of his goals that way though. shortened lock-out year it was exactly 50%. Either way, he has the potential to be an elite player at ES, we aren't Marc-Andre Bergeron, and against his age group and at the WC he wasn't at reliant on PP production. I'd also add, while Scheifele and Wheeler look good, I don't think the Jets have a PP that can't open things up as much as Washington's does for Laine. Either way though, I do think even if he doesn't put up crazy PP numbers this year his presence will improve it. It will be hard to cheat coverage toward Buff with Laine there. The presence of both of them will force the defence to open up passing lanes to one of them.

Jets have two or three young power play geniuses on the team or in the pipeline, which should create more space and opportunities. Ehlers is outstanding on the PP, working from the right wall. Connor is also terrific on the PP. At some point might see Petan on the PP too - a quick review of his WJHC performance should remind folks how talented he is. I see the PP changing. Wheeler for the corners, puck retrieval and net front presence. Scheifele at the goal line and sliding up to the slot. Ehlers or Connor on the right wall. Buff at the point. Laine on the left wall.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think the reason for that Marner comments was LeafsRockForBabcock, it seems like LeafsRock has 1 goal in Laine related threads and it's getting boring.

Laine has elite hands, elite shot, and vision on a 6'4 frame, it's going to take time but I'm confident he'll figure it out.
With the Jets he'll also be playing with Scheifele, Ehlers, Wheeler, Buff so he should have a high end playmaker on the ice at the same time.

I hate that Marjamaki has a slow, boring style, they allow Sweden to set up and you go nowhere with a team like that if you allow that.
That drop pass on the pp needs to be cut off.

They have competent players, I don't think they have someone who can unlock the D to the extent Backstrom has for most of Ovi's career, and currently Kuznetsov. He's good but teams will try to push him back against the side boards/into the corner like Sweden is doing. On smaller ice it is much harder to get that cross-ice pass he loves across. Stamkos used to make a killing off that play (along with Ovi and Hull), I feel a lot of that play is dependent on having a great playmaker on the other side to continually do it. I have no doubt Laine will figure it out, but its much easier to stop that play on smaller ice.

 

[kelsier]

Ummm actually I am 6 7 with a 6 8 brother. I am familiar with growth spurts.

The issue is that we were told he was almost 6 5 before the measurement. And when fans found out he wasn't even 6 4 in June. They posted ridiculousness about angles etc. They look at pictures that were taken right after combine (within weeks) and are saying he is almost 6 5.

That's the foolish part.

Guess that goes into category of believing the source then eh? Now I can't even begin to comprehend the fundamental reasoning behind your obsession about his height, but what I can do is read an recent article about him that states him being 6"5. Now there's no telling whether that is true or false, hence I asked you for other sources stating otherwise and didn't get one. I couldn't care less how a person looks like in the photos to be honest cause there are too many conceiving factors, and neither should you.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Guys. The height thing is true.
I'm 6'4 in the morning but 5'7 in the afternoon. Its just the way bodies work.

 

[BB88]

They have competent players, I don't think they have someone who can unlock the D to the extent Backstrom has for most of Ovi's career, and currently Kuznetsov. He's good but teams will try to push him back against the side boards/into the corner like Sweden is doing. On smaller ice it is much harder to get that cross-ice pass he loves across. Stamkos used to make a killing off that play (along with Ovi and Hull), I feel a lot of that play is dependent on having a great playmaker on the other side to continually do it. I have no doubt Laine will figure it out, but its much easier to stop that play on smaller ice.

Absolutely it's going to be more difficult.
But I would hope Laine hasn't hit his max potential already, we should remember he's closer to 18 than 19y still.

I think any of the 2,

Laine-Scheifele-Wheeler/
Laine-Scheifele- Ehlers lines have potential to be among the best lines in the league. Their styles should well and those lines should have pretty much everything outside of generational talent.

 

[ijuka]

Guys. The height thing is true.
I'm 6'4 in the morning but 5'7 in the afternoon. Its just the way bodies work.

And astronauts also just happen to become 2 inches taller when they aren't under the influence of gravity...

I'd suggest you study the subject before ridiculing it.

Ovi came close a couple times, never broke 50% of his goals that way though. shortened lock-out year it was exactly 50%. Either way, he has the potential to be an elite player at ES, we aren't Marc-Andre Bergeron, and against his age group and at the WC he wasn't at reliant on PP production. I'd also add, while Scheifele and Wheeler look good, I don't think the Jets have a PP that can't open things up as much as Washington's does for Laine. Either way though, I do think even if he doesn't put up crazy PP numbers this year his presence will improve it. It will be hard to cheat coverage toward Buff with Laine there. The presence of both of them will force the defence to open up passing lanes to one of them.

Essentially, what you are saying is that scoring more goals on PP is a bad thing. For example, say Laine's scoring rate at even strength is 25 goals in a season. Now, if he has 15 PP goals it's alright, but if he has 25 PP goals that's too many goals scored on PP even though he scores 10 more goals.

Does that make any sense?

The ratio doesn't even matter, all goals are worth the same.

 

[Whileee]

And astronauts also just happen to become 2 inches taller when they aren't under the influence of gravity...

I'd suggest you study the subject before ridiculing it.
.

I thought everybody knew this phenomenon caused by postural differences in the compression of intervertebral discs. Apparently, some people still think the "back bone is connected to the head bone".

 

[93LEAFS]

And astronauts also just happen to become 2 inches taller when they aren't under the influence of gravity...

I'd suggest you study the subject before ridiculing it.




Essentially, what you are saying is that scoring more goals on PP is a bad thing. For example, say Laine's scoring rate at even strength is 25 goals in a season. Now, if he has 15 PP goals it's alright, but if he has 25 PP goals that's too many goals scored on PP even though he scores 10 more goals.

Does that make any sense?

The ratio doesn't even matter, all goals are worth the same.

Its also shown PP doesn't tend to translate across leagues as well. Being that dependent on powerplay goals in a lesser league is a small red-flag. I do think Laine will become an elite scorer, but ES production is a much better reflection of offensive ability, particularly to how it will translate to the NHL.

 

[93LEAFS]

I thought everybody knew this phenomenon caused by postural differences in the compression of intervertebral discs. Apparently, some people still think the "back bone is connected to the head bone".

We also have no idea what Laine was doing prior to the measurements if he was just chilling lying in his hotel room watching TV it will make no difference. The theory is based on the person sitting up or standing all day at a regular job, it isn't time of day dependent, more activity based.

 

[Brock Radunske]

And astronauts also just happen to become 2 inches taller when they aren't under the influence of gravity...

I'd suggest you study the subject before ridiculing it.




Essentially, what you are saying is that scoring more goals on PP is a bad thing. For example, say Laine's scoring rate at even strength is 25 goals in a season. Now, if he has 15 PP goals it's alright, but if he has 25 PP goals that's too many goals scored on PP even though he scores 10 more goals.

Does that make any sense?

The ratio doesn't even matter, all goals are worth the same.

I thought everybody knew this phenomenon caused by postural differences in the compression of intervertebral discs. Apparently, some people still think the "back bone is connected to the head bone".

So Marner is really 6'2? This is great news!

 

[Whileee]

We also have no idea what Laine was doing prior to the measurements if he was just chilling lying in his hotel room watching TV it will make no difference. The theory is based on the person sitting up or standing all day at a regular job, it isn't time of day dependent, more activity based.

It's not a theory. It's actually been demonstrated empirically, and the anatomic explanation is well known (to most). Sure, maybe he stood all night and slept all day. Let's go with that theory, shall we? This thread is going from the ridiculous to the sublime.

 

[TDK67]

"Marlander93Feel like it would be better if Laine were to start off in the AHL"

It was a rhetorical question--not asking for a quote. Just pointing out that it's a dumb line of thought.

 

[Whileee]

So Marner is really 6'2? This is great news!

s

Nah, he gains a couple of inches at night and maxes out at about 5'10.5". It doesn't really matter though, because, you know, generational talent, etc.

 

[Brock Radunske]

It's not a theory. It's actually been demonstrated empirically, and the anatomic explanation is well known (to most). Sure, maybe he stood all night and slept all day. Let's go with that theory, shall we? This thread is going from the ridiculous to the sublime.

But Laine isn't unique. If he is suddenly two inches taller in the morning then everyone is...therefore no one is.

And last time I checked, hockey is played in the afternoon/evening/night so whatever height he is then is the height that matters.

 

[93LEAFS]

It's not a theory. It's actually been demonstrated empirically, and the anatomic explanation is well known (to most). Sure, maybe he stood all night and slept all day. Let's go with that theory, shall we? This thread is going from the ridiculous to the sublime.

I'd assume for a big physical testing day they have their day laid out to maximize performance. I would doubt the routines of the players was drastically altered by what cohort they were with. It is a ridiculously reaching to believe Laine was negatively impacted by a full inch. The whole use of this theory I have never seen used in a draft thread or any combine over the years, and seems like a ridiculous defence mechanism to state why he wasn't as tall as claimed. Most NHL players actually have pretty ridiculous routines where they sleep very late at night, practice, and take naps during the day to be at peak performance for a certain time. They don't schedule their days like classic 9 to 5's which is what that study pertains to. So if they are willing to do stuff like this in the regular season, it wouldn't be a surprise if the players (and on the advice of agents and trainers) set their body clock to be at peak performance for what time they are going through the combine.

 

[Whileee]

But Laine isn't unique. If he is suddenly two inches taller in the morning then everyone is...therefore no one is.

And last time I checked, hockey is played in the afternoon/evening/night so whatever height he is then is the height that matters.

I don't think you're getting the point.

It's a really useless issue to discuss. Laine is big and has a fantastic reach. It's going to be a big asset for him.