LW Kristian Vesalainen (2017, 24th, WPG)

[Jetsfan87]

He had a clause where if he wasnt on the Jets he could return to Finland rather than play on the Moose. While I would rather see him play on the Moose (be around Jets coaching staff/NA game) how knows how this works out. Maybe he goes to Finland and lights it up. Both are good avenues for development, just in different ways....

 

[Ippenator]

Tolvanen and Mikael Granlund say hi. Both played had issue with the speed of the game in NHL rink. Granlund himself even said that he had to learn to do things quicker and in tighter space and he learned to do that in AHL. Tolvanen has the same issues and he's learning in AHL. It really depends on the players themselves where they are on their development scale. Some people can step right in and some need adjustment.

Tolvanen is physically quite weak and bad with his conditioning compared to even mediocre NHL players. Similar to Granlund’s situation in that for sure. But even for Granlund the most important fix was getting his weak physical conditioning to the level that you need to have for the quick stop and go play that the NHL has.

Even Laine and Rantanen have been quite much battling with these issues, although they both have been talents at least a tier above Granlund and Tolvanen. Especially Rantanen has been physically clearly stronger already before his NHL career, but even he has had a pretty long road to get good enough with his physical condition.

 

[vorky]

Tolvanen is physically quite weak and bad with his conditioning compared to even mediocre NHL players. Similar to Granlund’s situation in that for sure. But even for Granlund the most important fix was getting his weak physical conditioning to the level that you need to have for the quick stop and go play that the NHL has.

Even Laine and Rantanen have been quite much battling with these issues, although they both have been talents at least a tier above Granlund and Tolvanen. Especially Rantanen has been physically clearly stronger already before his NHL career, but even he has had a pretty long road to get good enough with his physical condition.

That happens when you are too young.

 

[Jussi]

That happens when you are too young.

Granlund began his first full NHL season at 21...

His own words before that season: Granlundilla vaikea NHL-kausi - "Tiesin, ettei tästä tule helppoa"

He's worked on his physique every off-season and only the last couple of seasons has shown that he's physically ready. Of course you never saw him in Liiga games are probably too young to watch him at Worlds, but his specialty in Europe was slowing the game down so that he could make his move. That is not possible in today's NHL where the game keeps getting faster and faster. He had to grow out of that habit and adapt. He spent the latter part of his rookie season in AHL and had time to do exactly that. But, as has been mentioned, the most talented individuals can break in the league even at 18 or 19, like Laine, Barkov, and Heiskanen.

In general though, Finnish don't fill out physically until after they've began their NHL careers because in Finland they don't put too much focus on weight training for kids because of fears it might stunt their growth (like it was done Mikko Koivu).

 

[gwh]

70K is pocket money when it come to the Jets. That's absolutely preposterous to even think they wouldn't want to pay such a small sum. Besides, Vesalainen had only played 8 games in AHL. The proper evaluation would have been after 20-30 games.

Don't quite comprehend how the contract abuse ("ELC slide") works? 5-7million hard cash and 1 year of caphit is "pocket money"?

Player plays in the AHL and his contract is still 3 years ELC at 800k after the season. This year (at 70k in AHL) gets added to the ELC. Jets save 5-7million during 2021-22 season, when Vesalainen will still be on 800k ELC.

 

[gwh]

Tolvanen and Mikael Granlund say hi. Both played had issue with the speed of the game in NHL rink. Granlund himself even said that he had to learn to do things quicker and in tighter space and he learned to do that in AHL. Tolvanen has the same issues and he's learning in AHL. It really depends on the players themselves where they are on their development scale. Some people can step right in and some need adjustment.

Granlund was in the AHL for 29 games total scoring at point per game. Great display of level of play in the dumpster league. Granlund's main problem was Yeo, who turned the 65 point player into 40 point player.

Tolvanen will get traded or return after this year. Also sitting in the bus won't "develop" him anywhere, just marinade him in the dump and chase garbage.

 

[tellermine]

Don't quite comprehend how the contract abuse ("ELC slide") works? 5-7million hard cash and 1 year of caphit is "pocket money"?

Player plays in the AHL and his contract is still 3 years ELC at 800k after the season. This year (at 70k in AHL) gets added to the ELC. Jets save 5-7million during 2021-22 season, when Vesalainen will still be on 800k ELC.

So you see to the future?

Sad for him as Winnipeg has quite good developement record at farm.
And if you NHL team want you to play in AHL... they just might have a reason for it.

Kid said that he thinks hockey is same in na and europe, rink is not an issue.. lol.
Seems like a quite arrogant kid.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

So you see to the future?

Sad for him as Winnipeg has quite good developement record at farm.
And if you NHL team want you to play in AHL... they just might have a reason for it.

Kid said that he thinks hockey is same in na and europe, rink is not an issue.. lol.
Seems like a quite arrogant kid.

Isn't it also arrogance to think that you know better than he does?

 

[tellermine]

Granlund was in the AHL for 29 games total scoring at point per game. Great display of level of play in the dumpster league. Granlund's main problem was Yeo, who turned the 65 point player into 40 point player.

Tolvanen will get traded or return after this year. Also sitting in the bus won't "develop" him anywhere, just marinade him in the dump and chase garbage.

There are more to hockey than points...

I saw Granlund back then few times and he was not good at all. He made points but otherways he was lost, slow, weak, boardplays were horrible etc. .

 

[tellermine]

Isn't it also arrogance to think that you know better than he does?

Nope. I think Winnipeg knows better.

If i google traslate it right kid,says that Winnipeg wanted him to stay.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Nope. I think Winnipeg knows better.

If i google traslate it right kid,says that Winnipeg wanted him to stay.

Well, of course they wanted him to stay. He made them look like fools.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Don't quite comprehend how the contract abuse ("ELC slide") works? 5-7million hard cash and 1 year of caphit is "pocket money"?

Player plays in the AHL and his contract is still 3 years ELC at 800k after the season. This year (at 70k in AHL) gets added to the ELC. Jets save 5-7million during 2021-22 season, when Vesalainen will still be on 800k ELC.

What are you even talking about? Vesalainen started the year in the NHL, didn't look great and went down to the AHL. The Jets have better options than him. This had nothing to do with saving money.

 

[tellermine]

Well, of course they wanted him to stay. He made them look like fools.

Oh no. He made his own stock go down.

Is Vesalainen ready to commit for a team or is it all Vesalainen self?
He seems to have quite a history...

Maby it would be best for Peg to use him as a trade peace to get a proper center?

 

[lomiller1]

KHL/European rink and playing style versus NA rink and playing style. It's a different atmosphere and there are few Finns of Vesalainen's age that have jumped straight to NHL without AHL games. I've mentioned it several times before but Koivu and Granlund had to learn the ropes there. It's on the player how quickly he adapts and proves AHL isn't where he needs to play anymore.

He won an NHL spot in training camp and Pre-season but once the pace picked up for regular season he just didn’t seem to touch the puck a lot. That could have been line and usage related, as he was great in the AHL. Regardless, a year in the KHL won’t hurt him and generally having more time and room should give him more confidence to make plays with the puck when he comes back.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Oh no. He made his own stock go down.

Is Vesalainen ready to commit for a team or is it all Vesalainen self?
He seems to have quite a history...

Maby it would be best for Peg to use him as a trade peace to get a proper center?

Trading him is an option.... but i think Winnipeg wants him to replace Perreault.

He won an NHL spot in training camp and Pre-season but once the pace picked up for regular season he just didn’t seem to touch the puck a lot. That could have been line and usage related, as he was great in the AHL. Regardless, a year in the KHL won’t hurt him and generally having more time and room should give him more confidence to make plays with the puck when he comes back.

A player playing 5 minutes per night didn't touch the puck a lot. Well damn.

 

[lomiller1]

As said by others, European prospects should develop in Europe. There is no need to play the AHL or major juniors in Canada.

A year in the AHL can make a good stepping stone to adapt to the culture and smaller ice without having to deal with the pressure of breaking into the NHL at the same time. More than that is a waste though. Eg the AHL was a great place for Niku last year, but now he should be on the Jets roster ahead of Morrow.

 

[Legend123]

Oh no. He made his own stock go down.

Is Vesalainen ready to commit for a team or is it all Vesalainen self?
He seems to have quite a history...

Maby it would be best for Peg to use him as a trade peace to get a proper center?

As a fan of mtl, a team full of fins in the roster and pipeline, I would be willing to pay a hefty price that is not counter productive to our rebuild. I'm sure he would love to play here with many of his fellow mates in a top 6 role with pp time.

 

[gwh]

What are you even talking about? Vesalainen started the year in the NHL, didn't look great and went down to the AHL. The Jets have better options than him. This had nothing to do with saving money.

Like Copp as a 3rd line LW? Or maybe Tanev? Those are solid 8goals per year type of fringe grinders that every team needs, in the 4th line.

Do you think Vesalainen would be gone if he thought making the NHL at TDL was an option?

(Also point per game 19yo AHL rookies are top line prospects. He was there for reasons other than his game)

 

[Jussi]

He won an NHL spot in training camp and Pre-season but once the pace picked up for regular season he just didn’t seem to touch the puck a lot. That could have been line and usage related, as he was great in the AHL. Regardless, a year in the KHL won’t hurt him and generally having more time and room should give him more confidence to make plays with the puck when he comes back.

Uhmmm... He'll have less time and room in NHL. Logic dictates that those things would be better learned in a similar environment. Again, bringing up Granlund as the prime example.

 

[gwh]

Uhmmm... He'll have less time and room in NHL. Logic dictates that those things would be better learned in a similar environment. Again, bringing up Granlund as the prime example.

What example?

Granlund was in the AHL for 26 games during the lockout plus 8 games in the Dumpster Cup playoffs. More like an example why even semi plausible talent doesn't belong to the AHL.

And his game had major warts in the rookie season.

 

[Jussi]

What example?

Granlund was in the AHL for 26 games during the lockout plus 8 games in the Dumpster Cup playoffs. More like an example why even semi plausible talent doesn't belong to the AHL.

And his game had major warts in the rookie season.

Granlund definitely belonged in the AHL at that stage of his development. This story from 5 years ago was about his lacking physique and how he was working to change that: Mikael Granlund loistaa nyt NHL:ssä – lue, mikä sen mahdollisti

His problems in his rookie season: Näkökulma: Ongelma nimeltä Mikael Granlund

 

[vorky]

Well, of course they wanted him to stay. He made them look like fools.

Great decision by the player!

That is great that European prospects have an option - if their NHL clubs do not value them to play the NHL, they can play in Europe. I see no problem here. Vesalainen agrees.

 

[gwh]

Gtanlund definitely belonged in the AHL at that stage of his development. This story from 5 years ago was about his lacking physique and how he was working to change that: Mikael Granlund loistaa nyt NHL:ssä – lue, mikä sen mahdollisti

His problems in his rookie season: Näkökulma: Ongelma nimeltä Mikael Granlund

Yet he was point per game in the AHL and completely outclassing the play. Nobody belongs to the AHL, some guys just don't belong to the NHL.

Also shoutout for Mike Yeo trying to make an underweight transition scorer into a NHL possession driving center. That changed immediately when Boudreau started and added +25 points into Granlund's seasons.

 

[vorky]

Gtanlund definitely belonged in the AHL at that stage of his development. This story from 5 years ago was about his lacking physique and how he was working to change that: Mikael Granlund loistaa nyt NHL:ssä – lue, mikä sen mahdollisti

His problems in his rookie season: Näkökulma: Ongelma nimeltä Mikael Granlund

The Eliteprospects does not know such a player. You should inform them about his existence.

I would like to remind you what your sources have told you for years

- Jokerit will be back in the Liiga by 2018
- The EU law is binding in the USA
- Vesalainen will not play the KHL in 2018-19
- and I would find more if I really tried

Your sources are wrong or your interpretation of the sources is wrong.

 

[gwh]

Selected quotes from Vesalainen:

Uusi Jokerit-hyökkääjä Kristian Vesalainen uskoo, että sillat eivät palaneet Winnipegiin: ”Ihan hyvillä fiiliksillä olivat molemmat osapuolet”

- "Of course the team wanted that I stay and develop there. We had long discussions about my departure"
- "Both sides had good feeling when I left"
- He is going to stay at his parent's house in central Helsinki and eat home cooking.

Winnipeg Jets maanitteli Vesalaista jäämään AHL:ään, mutta hän piti päänsä – Jokerit jakaa siirrosta kiitosta SKA:lle ja Roman Rotenbergille

- "AHL has a lof of junior players when KHL is men's league. Every game in the KHL is high level of play and it doesn't matter if you play on the big or small ice."
- "I am planning to develop my own strengths. I am a big guy, so added body weight would be allowed".
- "u20 WJC seems interesting, but we have to see. That has to be decided later, because the season has been broken."
- (Also the journalist writes in the story: Vesalainen had already decided in the summer that AHL is not the best place for his development this season. Unclear if this is Vesalainen talking or the journalist, could be either)
- (ELC contract slide is mentioned in the introduction paragraph. This is the journalist shedding light on the players situation as background information.)