LW Grigori Denisenko (2018, 15th, FLA; claimed by VGK)

[letsgrowcactus]

Finally! It was also the equalizer which got them into the shootout where they won the game. Let's hope this was the goal he needed to get him going.
Do you have any comments on his start of the season so far?

 

[MintyFresh88]

Hes doing what Denisenko has been doing for the last three years, looking toolsy as hell but ultimately just not putting points on the board. I gave him excuses over excuses in his draft year because he has such an impressive array of skills, but Im pretty sure he just will not make it now. Hes still young for sure and maybe he picks it up, I hope so, because I had him high in that 2018 draft, but I dont have much faith left there.

Wow. Some guys put up a crap load of points in junior and amount to nothing at the pro level. He's a year removed from being drafted, let's pump the brakes here for a second. Kucherov bounced between the MHL and KHL around the time he was drafted as well and scored a whopping 1 goal in 27 career KHL games. Way too early to make a call...he hasn't even played a single game in North America.

 

[Mrb1p]

Wow. Some guys put up a crap load of points in junior and amount to nothing at the pro level. He's a year removed from being drafted, let's pump the brakes here for a second. Kucherov bounced between the MHL and KHL around the time he was drafted as well and scored a whopping 1 goal in 27 career KHL games. Way too early to make a call...he hasn't even played a single game in North America.

Kucherov put up a 2.00 PPG in the MHL ? Denisenko hasn't even been PPG once. What kind of comparison is that ?

 

[letsgrowcactus]

Kucherov put up a 2.00 PPG in the MHL ? Denisenko hasn't even been PPG once. What kind of comparison is that ?

Sure, in his draft+1 year. Denisenko played all of four games in the MHL in his draft+1 year. On that topic, it's also worth noting that Denisenko never played nowhere near a full season in the MHL - it's harder to find your groove if you're constantly moving between leagues and teams.
It is somewhat concerning that Denisenko hasn't produced much yet in the KHL. That said, his team is very meh (second-to-last in KHL standings before today's game; with the win, they jump to 18/24) and there are only three players scored more than 3 goals after 18 games. Denisenko playing about 12 minutes on a line with a fellow 19 year old (who hasn't yet played a full KHL season) and a fresh 21 year old (who has played one full KHL season) also didn't help his production.
So I guess I get your concern because yes, this year follows a trend when you expect more from him... but at the same time, there is some explanation for it, and his play against his peers at all kinds of tournaments has been excellent. I guess we'll see in a few years.

 

[Mrb1p]

Sure, in his draft+1 year. Denisenko played all of four games in the MHL in his draft+1 year. On that topic, it's also worth noting that Denisenko never played nowhere near a full season in the MHL - it's harder to find your groove if you're constantly moving between leagues and teams.
It is somewhat concerning that Denisenko hasn't produced much yet in the KHL. That said, his team is very meh (second-to-last in KHL standings before today's game; with the win, they jump to 18/24) and there are only three players scored more than 3 goals after 18 games. Denisenko playing about 12 minutes on a line with a fellow 19 year old (who hasn't yet played a full KHL season) and a fresh 21 year old (who has played one full KHL season) also didn't help his production.
So I guess I get your concern because yes, this year follows a trend when you expect more from him... but at the same time, there is some explanation for it, and his play against his peers at all kinds of tournaments has been excellent. I guess we'll see in a few years.

Theres always explanation for Denisenko... I was a fan of his in 2017 and 2018, but the big caveat was that he didnt produce. Four years later, hes still not producing. At some point, you have to produce and cant always have excuses. The same will apply to Podkolzin, I feel.

 

[Caser]

Finally! It was also the equalizer which got them into the shootout where they won the game. Let's hope this was the goal he needed to get him going.
Do you have any comments on his start of the season so far?

He still looks very streaky to me, I mean, I know he is 19, but still I hoped for some progress here.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

Theres always explanation for Denisenko... I was a fan of his in 2017 and 2018, but the big caveat was that he didnt produce. Four years later, hes still not producing. At some point, you have to produce and cant always have excuses. The same will apply to Podkolzin, I feel.

I get your point, but at the same time I think you're overstating his lack of production.

His draft-1 year was very good (only Kravstov, Marchenko and Yevgeni Groshev produced more from Denisenko's draft year).
Draft year was somewhat weaker production-wise, though not awful - in the MHL, 10 kids from his draft year and 3 kids from the 2019 draft year (one of them Dorofeyev) had better .ppg pace than him. Not great, especially since there was no production improvement from the previous year... OTOH, I'd estimate there were roughly 200 forwards from Denisenko's draft year or younger who played at least 20 MHL games. Having the 14th best .ppg pace out that group doesn't scream "NHL star", but I wouldn't call it a bad season either.
His draft+1 year was fine for an 18 year old undersized kid bouncing between KHL/VHL/MHL. Not oh-he's-outproducing-everyone, but pretty much exactly what you'd expect from an undersized prospect his age in the KHL. Only Kravstov had better .ppg pace from Denisenko's draft year or younger, though obviously the sample size there is crap (there were only 8 forwards who played at least 15 KHL games last year who were from Denisenko's draft year, plus Dorofeyev as the only younger forward) - but that alone tells you that looking at production here is essentially meaningless.

Now this year will be key, and I really want to see some improvement on the actual scoresheet from him. At the same time... it's October. He also has one goal on 26 shots - odds are his shooting% should improve as the season goes (and if he had only two more goals which would mean shooting success of 11.5%, he'd have 6 points in 15 games, good for a .ppg pace of 0.40, and we're likely not having this conversation at all). His shots per game are up, his PIM are way down from last year (which is good, given his past disciplinary issues)...

I won't say I'm not concerned at all, but it's far from the stage where I see him as a likely bust and give up.

 

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[16thOverallSaveUs]

Anyone think he comes over next year?

 

[FinlandPanther]

Anyone think he comes over next year?

I would think so.

 

[Atas2000]

I would think so.

If he does he is an idiot
It is painfully obvioys he needs another two years in Russia to mature.

 

[FinlandPanther]

If he does he is an idiot
It is painfully obvioys he needs another two years in Russia to mature.

I know you’re super Russia above all but if he doesn’t get consistent first or second line minutes then I’d rather roll the dice in NA.

 

[IceManCat]

Anyone think he comes over next year?

I hope not should stay and develop over there

 

[Mase]

If he does he is an idiot
It is painfully obvioys he needs another two years in Russia to mature.

So you think he's about 3 years away from being a serious top 6 NHL player?

 

[Atas2000]

So you think he's about 3 years away from being a serious top 6 NHL player?

In his case - yes, absolutely. He always was that kind of prospect. He has the talent, but once with the big guuys it becomes obvious he lacks muscle and understanding what works on the big stage.

 

[Atas2000]

I know you’re super Russia above all but if he doesn’t get consistent first or second line minutes then I’d rather roll the dice in NA.

The obsession with minutes is exactly what kills those prospects. Minutes in a worst development environment are meaningless.

 

[greasysnapper]

If he does he is an idiot
It is painfully obvioys he needs another two years in Russia to mature.

What's the point in playing a handful minutes in a subpar league, who's most dominant player in the past 3 seasons has struggled at the NHL level? How is that idiotic? The fact is, the KHL is not a direct translation to the NHL anymore and the level of play continues to dwindle. They are different games. Training at top ranked Ping pong isn't going to make you a world class Tennis player.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

If he does he is an idiot
It is painfully obvioys he needs another two years in Russia to mature.

Sure but can't he do the maturing in the AHL?
For Lokomotiv, the first priority is winning; in the AHL, player developement is at least as important as winning games.

 

[SoundAndFury]

What's the point in playing a handful minutes in a subpar league, who's most dominant player in the past 3 seasons has struggled at the NHL level? How is that idiotic? The fact is, the KHL is not a direct translation to the NHL anymore and the level of play continues to dwindle. They are different games. Training at top ranked Ping pong isn't going to make you a world class Tennis player.

Snap out of it and stop spewing random nonsense. KHL never was a "direct translation", it's just unrealistic, none of the European leagues are or could be.

The level of play is only dwindling in your head because you ignore the most obvious factors while cherry-picking for some "evidence" you manage to find. In Sweden too, evidently, it's doom and gloom everywhere:

Hockey is dying in Sweden. Sweden's socioeconomic "factors" are causing a major drop in high level hockey play in male youth. Less funding, less arenas (popping up and maintenance), less top tier athletes. What's interesting is they have more "people" playing, but less competitive leagues, and there's a big social push, but I don't want to get too much into that.

If the KHL is ping pong, what's the AHL then? Pinball machine? Doesn't it make even less sense to move there if he isn't NHL-ready? Which he isn't.

 

[Atas2000]

Sure but can't he do the maturing in the AHL?
For Lokomotiv, the first priority is winning; in the AHL, player developement is at least as important as winning games.

Loko is by a country mile a better place than AHL. He has 3 leagues he can switch to if need be and if his development continues half right he should be a KHL regular at the latest by next season. He gets decent minutes this season too. I see no problem there. He is very much like Kravtsov who made the jump early and look how it turned out. I can see both players develop quite fine if they give it time, but don't forget to give it effort. And Denisenko gets quite an opportunity to shine at WJC too. He should use it to build confidence. He will have some team with him.

 

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[HankyZetts]

His skating is perfect for the modern NHL.

 

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