Speculation: Looking back on the Hamilton trade , should the Oilers have gave up Nurse

[belair]

They should've used their picks to draft Chabot at 16, Roy at 32, maybe trade up for another D like Meloche or Lauzon in the 2nd round. Hamilton is too Franson-y to invest in as much as he'd cost and Reinhart was a disaster seen from a mile away. Or trade Hall last year when his value was probably higher. A Nurse-Roy 2nd pairing would have been something to behold

Reinhart is 22. The only people deeming him a disaster are the ones fixated on the draft picks used to acquire him. None of the guys you just mentioned are any closer to being NHL regulars than he is, which was the entire purpose of the trade in the first place.

 

[tony d]

For Edmonton's needs I think they got the better player in Larsson than Hamilton.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Except those things aren't connected. Are you suggesting it's merely a coincidence that the Oilers brought Lucic and Demers in for a tour, and after trading a forward for a dman, signed the forward, and didn't offer the dman a contract?

The mental gymnastics Oiler's fans are doing to justify the trade to themselves is unreal. I will say I dont thin you lost it that bad, as I think both are over rated HARD. I'd be surprised to see Hall break 65 points in NJ while not being very good defensively. He's also a winger which lowers his value vs if he was a C.

Meanwhile they got a #3 D for him, who is going to be played over his head, and most likely set up to fail. However regardless of how terrible he is, there will be fans who will defend them to their death and make every excuse, until they leave the team.

See: Nurse, Reinhart, Gagner, damn near every Oilers player for a while.

 

[ManofSteel55]

The mental gymnastics Oiler's fans are doing to justify the trade to themselves is unreal. I will say I dont thin you lost it that bad, as I think both are over rated HARD. I'd be surprised to see Hall break 65 points in NJ while not being very good defensively. He's also a winger which lowers his value vs if he was a C.

Meanwhile they got a #3 D for him, who is going to be played over his head, and most likely set up to fail. However regardless of how terrible he is, there will be fans who will defend them to their death and make every excuse, until they leave the team.

See: Nurse, Reinhart, Gagner, damn near every Oilers player for a while.

How is Larsson overrated? A lot of people here have called him a bust, bottom pair defenseman, etc.

 

[Padlock]

Except those things aren't connected. Are you suggesting it's merely a coincidence that the Oilers brought Lucic and Demers in for a tour, and after trading a forward for a dman, signed the forward, and didn't offer the dman a contract?

No, I'm saying that a trade is a trade. You don't get to add in whatever other things happened to make it look better.

 

[snipes]

The mental gymnastics Oiler's fans are doing to justify the trade to themselves is unreal. I will say I dont thin you lost it that bad, as I think both are over rated HARD. I'd be surprised to see Hall break 65 points in NJ while not being very good defensively. He's also a winger which lowers his value vs if he was a C.

Meanwhile they got a #3 D for him, who is going to be played over his head, and most likely set up to fail. However regardless of how terrible he is, there will be fans who will defend them to their death and make every excuse, until they leave the team.

See: Nurse, Reinhart, Gagner, damn near every Oilers player for a while.

It must suck being this miserable.

 

[Kamiccolo]

How is Larsson overrated? A lot of people here have called him a bust, bottom pair defenseman, etc.

And a lot think he is a legit #1 D. Those guys are being window lickers, but I don't think he is a legit top pairing D, but is close.

 

[Kamiccolo]

It must suck being this miserable.

Nothing a crippling drug addiction can't fix.

 

[Riseonfire]

Reinhart is 22. The only people deeming him a disaster are the ones fixated on the draft picks used to acquire him. None of the guys you just mentioned are any closer to being NHL regulars than he is, which was the entire purpose of the trade in the first place.

It's just that he was drafted #4 and was deemed near NHL ready at the time. Its years later and there has been little to no progress.Can he be a top 4 in the NHL? Sure. Will he? The longer it takes the less likely it seems.

 

[snipes]

Nothing a crippling drug addiction can't fix.

I legit laughed. Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[Blitzago*]

The mental gymnastics Oiler's fans are doing to justify the trade to themselves is unreal. I will say I dont thin you lost it that bad, as I think both are over rated HARD. I'd be surprised to see Hall break 65 points in NJ while not being very good defensively. He's also a winger which lowers his value vs if he was a C.

Meanwhile they got a #3 D for him, who is going to be played over his head, and most likely set up to fail. However regardless of how terrible he is, there will be fans who will defend them to their death and make every excuse, until they leave the team.

See: Nurse, Reinhart, Gagner, damn near every Oilers player for a while.

I love the mental gymnastics of leafs fans trying to claim rielly is a top pairing d man, #3 at best

 

[LMFAO]

Crazy to see people writing Nurse off at 21 year old and 1 NHL season... The irationnal hate against Nurse is strange, is it because he plays for edm ?

 

[belair]

Crazy to see people writing Nurse off at 21 year old and 1 NHL season... The irationnal hate against Nurse is strange, is it because he plays for edm ?

Crazy?

Common.

HFBoards loves writing off the Oilers. If he doesn't win the Art Ross, queue up the 'McDavid is a bust' threads next summer.

 

[oilerbear]

The mental gymnastics Oiler's fans are doing to justify the trade to themselves is unreal. I will say I dont thin you lost it that bad, as I think both are over rated HARD. I'd be surprised to see Hall break 65 points in NJ while not being very good defensively. He's also a winger which lowers his value vs if he was a C.

Meanwhile they got a #3 D for him, who is going to be played over his head, and most likely set up to fail. However regardless of how terrible he is, there will be fans who will defend them to their death and make every excuse, until they leave the team.

See: Nurse, Reinhart, Gagner, damn near every Oilers player for a while.

SO the game is GF and GA.
with a team needing 1 more GF to beat GA.

last 2 years: 2.13 EVGF/A is league average.
.31 more EVGF needs to be scored to maybe achieve a wild card spot.
2.13 + .31 = 2.44 EVGF
At even
Hall #63 fwd 2.70 EVGF/60
Larsson #1 D 1.52 EVGA/60

Special teams: 6.44 PPGF/A is league average
PP:
Hall #208 Fwd 5.21 PPGF/60
-1.23 GD/60
Larsson N/A

PK:
Larsson #12 D 5.20 PPGA/60
+1.24 GD/60
Hall N/A

HERO is a chart that concentrates on Offence.
The guys generating that are misinforming fans.
It gives false value to offensive Dmen.

GF win games.
It is 1/2 of Goal differential.
of the top 300 goal scorers last year.
27 are Dmen.
those men scored 202G
the other 273 are forwards who scored 3040G

Of the 3242 goals from the top 300 scorers (GF)
3040/3242 93.8% of goals come from forwards.

The hard chart emphasizes the play of men who have almost zero effect on Goal production.
All Dmen need to do is pass the forwards the puck.

As the guy who came up with the analytical concept HSCA.
Dmen can influence 33% of total GA by reducing HSCA shots in a game.

it is quite Funny how many on here provide a view with zero facts.

How many rely on the hero chart as any sort of value measure for a Dman.

 

[Maukkis]

SO the game is GF and GA.
with a team needing 1 more GF to beat GA.

last 2 years: 2.13 EVGF/A is league average.
.31 more EVGF needs to be scored to maybe achieve a wild card spot.
2.13 + .31 = 2.44 EVGF
At even
Hall #63 fwd 2.70 EVGF/60
Larsson #1 D 1.52 EVGA/60

Special teams: 6.44 PPGF/A is league average
PP:
Hall #208 Fwd 5.21 PPGF/60
-1.23 GD/60
Larsson N/A

PK:
Larsson #12 D 5.20 PPGA/60
+1.24 GD/60
Hall N/A

HERO is a chart that concentrates on Offence.
The guys generating that are misinforming fans.
It gives false value to offensive Dmen.

GF win games.
It is 1/2 of Goal differential.
of the top 300 goal scorers last year.
27 are Dmen.
those men scored 202G
the other 273 are forwards who scored 3040G

Of the 3242 goals from the top 300 scorers (GF)
3040/3242 93.8% of goals come from forwards.

The hard chart emphasizes the play of men who have almost zero effect on Goal production.
All Dmen need to do is pass the forwards the puck.

As the guy who came up with the analytical concept HSCA.
Dmen can influence 33% of total GA by reducing HSCA shots in a game.

it is quite Funny how many on here provide a view with zero facts.

How many rely on the hero chart as any sort of value measure for a Dman.

To be honest, relying on any stat that lacks context is just as bad.

 

[chubeyr]

First off the Oilers did lose the Hall Larsson trade. Sugar coat it anyway you want but they lost that trade badly! Most Oiler fans agree, almost unanimous from all other teams fans.

Dont get me wrong! Edmonton needed to make that move, I fully expected them to overpay and they did. Not gonna call out your GM for making that move. Just hate people trying to make it look like signing Lucic made this trade a win! Are the Oilers a better team for this? IMO yes! Value wise, bad trade any way you slice it!

As for the Hamilton Larsson debate going on here? I'll go with they are both #3 dmen until they prove otherwise. Some will say Larsson played first pairing minutes last season, yah and Hamilton did in Boston too!

Larsson has yet to play a game for the Oilers, some here are almost calling him a Norris trophy winner already. MacT use to say that about Shultz too! Some of you guys need to ease up on the expectations from Larsson. He is a young player and if he has a rough start to the year you will all take your pitchforks out!

As for who is better, Hamilton or Larsson? Hamilton is younger than Larsson by 7 months if my math is right ( it could be wrong ). Never the less both players have huge upsides to their games yet to be tapped.

Both are big players, one has offensive gifts, the other defensive gifts. Value wise I think Hamilton is worth more based off him playing way more NHL minutes, and scoring way more points! Dont get me wrong though, Larsson could end up being the better player. Some could argue he is right now! AS a PP QB Larsson sucks ( right now )! As a shutdown Dman Hamilton sucks right now! Guess it depends on what you expect from the player, offense or defence?

As a duo of Hamilton and Larsson for the Oilers? I think that would of been awesome. Both big guys and ones weakness is the others strength. Think that would of been an awesome combo!

As a Calgary fan I mean no hate in my post. I want the Oilers to be better. I want the Flames to be better. Never the less we are arguing who is better, Hamilton Calgarys #3 dman or Larsson Edmontons #1 dman? Brodie and Gio are better than all of them right now! Advantage Flames! Yet the Oilers now have Lucic, Maroon, and Pull an RV. I still think the Flames are a better team. I think its gonna be fun watching these two teams for the next decade!

Bring back the hate, bring back the Battle of Alberta! Calgary Fans deserve this, the Oiler fans deserve this more!

Lets hope the new rink isnt full of the same stink! Someone owns that saying on CP! Please dont sue me!

 

[Smartguy]

The mental gymnastics Oiler's fans are doing to justify the trade to themselves is unreal. I will say I dont thin you lost it that bad, as I think both are over rated HARD. I'd be surprised to see Hall break 65 points in NJ while not being very good defensively. He's also a winger which lowers his value vs if he was a C.

Meanwhile they got a #3 D for him, who is going to be played over his head, and most likely set up to fail. However regardless of how terrible he is, there will be fans who will defend them to their death and make every excuse, until they leave the team.

See: Nurse, Reinhart, Gagner, damn near every Oilers player for a while.

I find this quite amusing coming from a leafs fan, and I'm an oiler fan and I'm the first to say I don't see Larsson succeeding with our team and indeed we will put him over his head and I see him sinking rather than swimming, with that said though I'd love to proved wrong. You'd be surprised to see Hall hit 65 points? I don't think you've watched him play much so let me fill you in, he hit 65 last year on a 29th place team, without a supporting cast of mcdavid,eberle,nugent Hopkins for A good chunk of the season. At least back up claims you make. Kyle palmeri can hit 60 almost there, so I'd say Hall hitting 65 shouldn't be a stretch.